Question to the left: How much is enough welfare?

Your question is a good one, but your solution is not really anything more than an attempt to get a reaction.

Welfare is a terrible thing to burden society with, but it's not a cause of a sick society, it's a symptom.
If a country has too many people who need welfare and can't afford it then the real problem is somewhat deeper.
The bottom line is that there is a tipping point. If everyone decided not to work anymore and just take a welfare cheque then the entire country would collapse and tens of millions would die of starvation and disease, which would continue until just a few people were left.

This is why jobs and productivity are so important. Any party or politician who seeks to extend welfare beyond what is critical is complicit in the destruction of a nation.

a reply to: DieGloke As a nurse, I have seen the abuse of our welfare entitlement programs, heck, as a citizen I have seen rampant abuse.

In Washington state, their Welfare healthcare can be gotten with a quick phone call. I have a lazy, drug addicted nephew that has been on their health care for about 8 months. Anytime he can't get his drugs or wants to lower his tolerance he checks into detox. Last month they put him up at a nice Rehab. I think he has had about 8 detoxes and a 40,000.00 rehab at the states expense. They were also prescribing him Suboxone which he was selling on the streets to get extra money for his heroin addiction.

I was able to get someone else on this healthcare with a less than 5 minute call. I don't think they verified anything, just took my word. The person was signed up immediately.The healthcare is better than mine that costs a ridiculous amount. It includes dental care, transportation to your doctor, no copay and even a translator if you need one.

I have seen so many people on disability that could easily work. My neighbor who was on permanent disability for his back, felt well enough to rip out his entire yard and redo the landscaping, which was a lot of heavy work.

I could go on and on with these stories, enough said.

a reply to: pointessa

Well its unfair to write off all drug addicts, they should at least be given one chance.
Many are doing drugs because they are covering a mental health problem or trauma.

As for disability, Again I would not scrap it because some people abuse it. Some people do need it. And its a welfare I have no problem funding to the best degree. But the guidelines need to be stringent. A sore back or feeling under the weather should not entitle you to it.

a reply to: DieGloke

Hitler would be so proud of you!

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: DieGloke

Hitler would be so proud of you!

/sigh

So much hyperbole..........

I did not know that providing safe clean shelters that people are free to come and go from that provided basic but healthy food 3 times a day was a thing Hitler did? What part of MienKampf was that in again?


Anyway what would you propose O great one?

A little late to this thread and I hope this isn't lost in all the poor bashing but the OP, along with many other people who have never experienced true poverty, is making a few very untrue assumptions. To them, poor/welfare equals the bums in the street or all those people buying lobster (that they heard about) on welfare.

Here are some FACTS:

1. Most people who get government assistance DO WORK! A lack of jobs isn't the primary problem, it's a lack of jobs that pay enough to cover healthcare, housing, food and daycare.

2. Most people on welfare are children or the disabled.

3. The death penalty for stealing is a little harsh - reminds me of Les Miserables.

4. You assume that most people on welfare are living a life of leisure (eating expensive food/sleeping in) and these "camps" make sure they get to work. 90% of people on welfare aren't living any better than these camps and they ARE working. Yes, there are a few people who abuse the system but I'm sure there are about 10% of corporations in business to steal and cheat the system too. I don't see you calling for the end of corporations.

originally posted by: Daughter2
I don't see you calling for the end of corporations.

Actually I called for a end to cooperate welfare somewhere on page 2 or 3.

Will the poor have to wear a badge or something? Maybe a brown penny badge so the rich know who they are dealing with.
It will help when rounding them up to make soylent green.

a reply to: DieGloke

you are suggesting replacing the current system with this system, which I am assuming includes includes replacing the hud, food stamp, and other programs... at least for those who are not employed...
but then, if you only go with those who are not working, you aren't really replacing the current welfare system, since most of those recieving benefits are working... at least here in the states they just aren't earning enough to support their FAMILIES.
oh ya, that's another thing you aren't accounting for it seems.... at least here in the states, unless you have kids..... you get very little help. so, I am assuming that you are proposing putting FAMILIES.... with kids, into this barricks like shelter, pulling them out of their hud and low income homes that they have now, forcing them to leave behind their belongings, or most of them because you don't really have that much room in the type of accommodations you describing, pulling their kids out of their schools, away from their friends.... gee, you might want to put a few psychologists on the staff to address the results of the trauma you are inflicting on these kids and their parents, since well, let's place each family having two kid, with 20 bunks to each building... that's at least ten kids housed in the place, probably more because there would probably be more single moms than couples, fighting over whatever toys they have available, angry as all heck because they had their favorite toys taken from them, and we can't forget about the one or two parents who have the spoiled brat that they refuse to discipline who is bullying the rest of the kids day in and day out.... it would be a nightmare!!!
you are free to correct me if I am wrong with this picture...
but if I am right, you need to stop acting like this would be more humane than what we have now... it's not.

originally posted by: testingtesting
Will the poor have to wear a badge or something? Maybe a brown penny badge so the rich know who they are dealing with.
It will help when rounding them up to make soylent green.

Dont be silly. Poor people would make terrible soylent green


Seriously though?
I am talking about really nice shelters that would be full of services to help them. They would get a better standard of living than now where they are herded into slums run by dodgy land owners and left to consist on a diet of fatty foods with minimal social support.

a reply to: DieGloke

Do the poor have an option not to go?.

a reply to: Daughter2

90% of people on welfare aren't living any better than these camps and they ARE working.

lol... I would disagree highly with this one... even if you are sharing housing expenses with another family you and your family probably will have a space to call your own, property that is their own, to chose to share, or not share. and, you will have chosen who you are sharing YOUR home with there's a much better chance that you will already know you will get along fairly well...
this would take your home away from you, stuff you in with a bunch of strangers and their families, give you much less personal space to call your own. or at least that what is sounds like to me.

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: DieGloke

Do the poor have an option not to go?.

Well yeah.....

But if I was in poverty on the streets the choice between that and a clean warm roof over my head where I can get help is a pretty easy choice.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Daughter2

90% of people on welfare aren't living any better than these camps and they ARE working.

lol... I would disagree highly with this one... even if you are sharing housing expenses with another family you and your family probably will have a space to call your own, property that is their own, to chose to share, or not share. and, you will have chosen who you are sharing YOUR home with there's a much better chance that you will already know you will get along fairly well...
this would take your home away from you, stuff you in with a bunch of strangers and their families, give you much less personal space to call your own. or at least that what is sounds like to me.

If they have a home to beguin with then there is no reason to go to one of these shelters.

And yeah there would be less personal space. Though I would envision that everyone gets a room to there own with some personal storage room, only things like bathrooms ,cooking and recreation areas shared.

a reply to: DieGloke

then you are not replacing the system, you are adding to it.
which would be fine by me... it would be a great help to those who fall into that crack that I always talk about.
but, I don't think that is what you began with in your op.....

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: DieGloke

then you are not replacing the system, you are adding to it.
which would be fine by me... it would be a great help to those who fall into that crack that I always talk about.
but, I don't think that is what you began with in your op.....

The OP may not have explained it very well and it came off harsher than it sounded

This was purely a proposing to get people off the streets or those festering long term in substandard housing and back into society.

Working poor and short term unemployment is something else that needs addressing in a different way.

For short term unemployment I would suggest a loan with interest set at near 0% . You can claim up to £1500 a months for 6 months(in a recession that is increased to a year) and pay it back once you start working at 5% your wage, that 5% would be offset by lower taxes from a smaller welfare budget.

As for the working poor......That is something.....more complicated. The best way I think to combat that is make sure there are more good jobs.

a reply to: dawnstar

The OP considered children, the working poor and the disabled as "side issues" because that's not their
FANTASY of poor people.

Their fantasy is some lazy adult on welfare who can easily get a job.

If they were dealing with reality of they would know it's mostly working poor adult, children and disabled on welfare.

originally posted by: Daughter2
a reply to: dawnstar

The OP considered children, the working poor and the disabled as "side issues" because that's not their
FANTASY of poor people.

Well you obviously did not read the OP as I covered the disabled.

I would give them a payout near the average wage of the area.

a reply to: DieGloke

the first thing I thought of after reading this post was A Christmas Carol:

First Collector: At this festive time of year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute.

Ebenezer: Are there no prisons?

First Collector: Plenty of prisons.

Ebenezer: And the union workhouses - are they still in operation?

First Collector: They are. I wish I could say they were not.

Ebenezer: Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I'm very glad to hear it.

First Collector: I don't think you quite understand us, sir. A few of us are endeavoring to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth.

Ebenezer: Why?

First Collector: Because it is at Christmastime that want is most keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. Now what can I put you down for?

Ebenezer: Huh! Nothing!

Second Collector: You wish to be anonymous?

Ebenezer: [firmly, but calmly] I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish sir, that is my answer. I help to support the establishments I have named; those who are badly off must go there.

First Collector: Many can't go there.

Second Collector: And some would rather die.

I am all for welfare reform, but I don't think we need to bring back the persecution of the indigent of the 19th century. We need to make self support more attractive than public support, but I don't think poor houses are the way to go.

Welfare in the USA needs a complete overhaul.

Under no circumstance should money, checks, or money cards ever be given out.