Looking to buy my first handgun and could use some advice

originally posted by: dasman888
Aha! Saw you went with the Glock 19! Booyah!

This won't be the last gun you own... but it will take a lickin and keep on tickin.

Good choice... it will serve you well.

Yes - I bought the Glock.

I took it to the range today and shot a 100 rounds or so.

Feels good in my hand, and shoots well. I'm not a marksman by any means, but I shredded that target.

Felt great!!

I guess it's mine now...

Get used to the trigger reset and dryfire dryfire dryfire!

originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: Riffrafter
Have you shot either of them before? Semi auto pistols tend to kick more and for myself am not as accurate as I am with a revolver. Just me. I own 9mm, .45 acp, .380, .32 and .22 as well as a .357 magnum. Of all of them I am most accurate with the .357 but shooting .38 special bullets. The other factor is cost to shoot. I do all my own loading so costs are dropped dramatically. I do not know how much you want to shoot but reloading is a must if you do it a lot. Good luck and have fun!!!

Semi autos actually have less felt recoil than a revolver in equal caliber. Part of the energy that would be recoil is used to move the slide.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt

originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: Riffrafter
Have you shot either of them before? Semi auto pistols tend to kick more and for myself am not as accurate as I am with a revolver. Just me. I own 9mm, .45 acp, .380, .32 and .22 as well as a .357 magnum. Of all of them I am most accurate with the .357 but shooting .38 special bullets. The other factor is cost to shoot. I do all my own loading so costs are dropped dramatically. I do not know how much you want to shoot but reloading is a must if you do it a lot. Good luck and have fun!!!

Semi autos actually have less felt recoil than a revolver in equal caliber. Part of the energy that would be recoil is used to move the slide.

Also worth noting to not limpwrist semi autos. You will have issues cycling.

a reply to: Riffrafter

Get an AR-15. That's the ones that Liberals want us to get. Liberals pick on these guns like a boy picks on a girl in school. That means he likes her, hence, Liberals love the AR-15.

FN-509 with extra barrels and magazines for different calibers. Equivalent of 3 guns for about $1K. Switch from 9mm to .40s&w to .45

Hard to argue with much of the advice here.Glock is a good choice,much better than the beretta.I have always been partial to the .38 super in 1911.Beretta always felt like a brick in my hand.As for 9mm vs .45 penetration look here to the" box o`truth"


www.theboxotruth.com...

Human beings have strange ideas about guns. Many see them as accessories like jewelry, or wall ornaments, bragging devices, and so on. Many are brand aficionados and loyalists, or fans of a particular frame or caliber. Salesmen are often self interested like car salesmen and want to meet a quota or obtain brand swag.

What you want your gun for determines what gun you should buy. On a budget where the glock is considered expensive, it being among the cheaper new handgun brands, as opposed to a Sig Sauer, HK, Kimber, Wilson Combat, most things from FNH or a Colt Commander, you should consider whether you want a rifle, shotgun, or handgun.

The reason is used rifles and shotguns provide a higher quality and stopping power relative to a 200-500 dollar budget. If your heart is still set on a handgun, you want to get something used to cut costs. Used firearms typically have identical functionality to new firearms, with some extra scratches unless used by competition or target shooters, who wear out the barrels.

Now to be blunt in how to pick your first handgun:

if you are fat, you can fire a weapon with a higher recoil.
If you have big hands, you can fire larger grip polymer pistols more easily.

if you buy a striker fire pistol with no hammer, you are more likely to hurt yourself. A beaver tail is designed to protect your hand.

if you are not very strong compared with small women or waifish vegetarians, you may find racking the slide and returning extremely difficult and frustrating, particularly if the release levers are small.

Men with bear paw sized hands tend to handle brick shaped handguns with double stacks and large calibers like the .451ACP and .50 GI more easily. Compact pistols particularly from companies like Ruger can be so small that they fit perfectly into the hands of males 5'3 to 5'8 and become troublesome for larger men.

Beretta/CZ variants typically have a notch that brings a smaller hand closer to the trigger. Checkering on the grip of whatever you use is extremely important. If you have extremely strong wrists, polymer pistols with lighter frames, or in general, lighter frame pistols and snub nose, short barrel pistols will be comfortable. However, if your wrist is not very strong, you will find a steel frame, forged, etc., and 1911 style frames more comfortable once the bullet fires.

A .380 ACP while having considerably less powder and penetration than a 9mm, is nearly as lethal against humans, since it still manages to penetrate to the internal organs, break bones, and so on, but against considerably larger targets, and tougher opponents with poorly angled shots, the lower hydrostatic shock and reduced penetration will become an issue.

45 ACP rounds are heavier, and require a wider grip for a double stack, or a single stack, depending on your grip size.
9mm rounds are faster, lighter, and have higher capacity, more hydrostatic shock and less penetration. The higher the velocity of a round, the more a liquid target slows it down as it travels. The heavier a round, measured in grains, such as 95, 155, and 230 grains, (7000 grains = 1 pound) the more momentum it has despite velocity, and it will have two desirable characteristics: 1 deeper penetration and 2. more material to expand

The more a bullet expands, the less penetration you get. Most bullets penetrate more than the 12" suggested by the FBI, although with extremely cheap pistols in more rare calibers this isn't always true. The Makarov for example is more like a .380 ACP than a 9mm.

9mm is really just a .357 bullet going slower than a .357 SIG or .357 Magnum, but faster than a "380" ACP which is also a .357 bullet.

44 magnum isn't a .44 caliber. its a .429 caliber.

Cal AKA Frequency
.172 4.5mm/4.4mm/.17HMR few
.204 5.2/.204 Ruger/.20 few
.222 .22LR/22CB/22 Short/5.45mm some
.223 .220 Russian unique
.224 5.7mm/.22/.223/WMR/.218 many
.243 6mm/6mm BR/.243 few
.251 25 ACP unique
.257 .257 Weatherby/25-06 few
.264 6.5mm /.260 few
.277 6.8mm/.270 few
.284 7mm/.280 some
.308 7.62mm/.30 cal many
.311 35 S&W Auto/32 ACP few
.312 .303 Enfield/AK/Dragunov some
.338 8.5mm/8.58/Lapua some
.358 9.1mm/.35 Remington unique
.370 9.3mm/Mauser unique
.375 9.5mm few
.400 10mm auto/.40 S&W
.416 10.57mm some
.458 11.6mm/.460/45-70/.450 some
.470 Mbogo unique
.505 12.8mm/Gibbs unique
.510 .50 BMG/.510 DTC some
.585 14.9mm/.577 T-Rex/14.5/Nyati some
.620 600 Nitro Express/Overkill few

brands you may not have heard about but are quite functional little gems include the Jericho, .41 Magnum, .22 TCM, 9mm Dillon, and 7.62 Tokarev. Some of these oddball pistols are sold at gun shows and army surplus shops for considerably less than popular brand pistols, particularly the Tokarev.

The PMR 30 is a high capacity .22 Magnum polymer pistol that for very little money provides 30 rounds of light recoil ammunition, though some say it jams. Conversely, the Model 10 police 38 special is extremely reliable, user friendly, and cheap. 38 special is the same as a .357 bullet which is the same as a 9mm bullet, but a milder powder, and without the added speed, the hydrostatic shock is lower, so the pain experienced by the target is lower, and they are less likely to fall over. What actually kills people is bleeding out, and that's caused by large deep holes with more lacerations, which is not necessarily what a higher speed bullet will do. A very high speed bullet can cause organs to sheer and tear along the seems of other organs, and cause flesh to liquefy, particularly rifle rounds, and particularly if the bullet hits near the lungs. These debates are why the .357 magnum replaced the .38 special, and why the 10mm auto replaced the 9mm.

Eventually the recoil was too much for most people and the magnum was scaled down to the .357 sig and the 10mm auto scaled back to the .40 S&W.

The shorter your barrel, the louder, weaker, slower, and more recoil your handgun will have. But it will also be heavier, harder to conceal, and take longer to pull out and aim, in terms of fractions of seconds. If you were ever wondering, Bob Munden was the fastest shooter on record, and everyone else is lying.

For your price range, id recommend a Colt .45 or a 7.62 Tokarev, if your goal is an affordable functional device with solid ballistics and friendly to to most shooters. However, you might trying a Browning High Power or one of the entry level brands like Chiappa, Century's M88, Hi Point, and keltec.

a Rock island armory 1911 is probably the best bang for your buck, they are a Philippine company that invented the .22 TCM and they love their customers and their guns. Some would place their metallurgy at or above Taurus, the brazilian company.

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Theprimevoyager
Glock 19.

The only answer.
You big? Concealable.
You small? Concealable.
Don't like massive recoil. Great.
Like something that isn't heavy as hell. Great.
Manageable and reliable as hell.
I've dropped mine in the snow and it fired with a barrel full of snow(don't try it. Lol)

The price point is fantastic and you cannot go wrong with the Gen4s and 5s. Interchangeable backstraps for all hand sizes.

I run a Gen3 personally but I would trust my life with it. 110%.

Great points - great post - thank you!

The store that has the berretta also has a Glock 19. Heading down there now to hold/handle both and make my buying decision.

- Glock 19

- Berretta

If anyone cares, I'll post what I purchased when I get back from the store a little later.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge & opinions.

I *love* ATS!

For your size and hands a glock is probably perfect. Just don't clip yourself like Bruce Willis in death wish.

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt
I agree to a point but a revolver requires a squeeze thus more control while an auto can tend to get away from you. The revolver will kick into the hand while an auto will kick the wrist back due to inertia.

The O.P. never said if he's right or left handed. Personally, it's more of which ammo you can buy in your locality. I would have suggested picking up a used S&W, M 10-5 snubby, off of GunBroker.com. Vista Outdoors, through Speer, sells special low smoke, low noise, self defense ammo. These are right up there with 357 in short barrels, but without the fireworks. The round grip's Crimson Trace laser sight is handier than anything you can clamp under the slide, in front of the auto pistols triggers. Glocks have had many more accidental discharges than revolvers ever had. Either way, you need to practice with cheap ammo, with both strong and weak handed holds. The second important thing is to buy a good pair of electronic muffs, for practicing. My wife got disoriented, when practicing, until she used a pair of these electronic muffs.

a reply to: Riffrafter

What did you finally decide on?

originally posted by: skynet2015

a Rock island armory 1911 is probably the best bang for your buck, they are a Philippine company that invented the .22 TCM and they love their customers and their guns. Some would place their metallurgy at or above Taurus, the brazilian company.

I've have the pleasure of frequenting their range and got a factory tour. They do stand behind their product 110% with a lifetime warranty. Their 1911's are solid as hell. Also worth checking their MAPP and MAP1 (Tanfoglio) pistols which are basically CZ Clones and real sweet shooters.

The TCM is an awesome fast, fun and easy to shoot round, but the rounds are too expensive to use as a range gun.

originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: Whoisjohngalt
I agree to a point but a revolver requires a squeeze thus more control while an auto can tend to get away from you. The revolver will kick into the hand while an auto will kick the wrist back due to inertia.

That heavier trigger CAN mean less accuracy though. A striker fire in 9mm will put rounds center mass at 5 meters time after time FAST with little training. A double action revolver in the hands of someone unskilled will pull to the right under stress, more likely.
I like double action, it serves as an additional saftey. But its not good for a self defense weapon for someone who isnt going to dedicate a decent portion of their time towards training.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Riffrafter

What did you finally decide on?

I'm sorry - I thought I posted that.

I bought the Glock. I'm extremely happy with it. I took it out to the range and fired a few hundred rounds to get the feel of it. It feels good in my hand and it shoots true. I even fired a few rounds with my left hand. That was a sad sight to behold...lol...but at least I did hit the target.

It was also under $500 (slightly used - but in extremely good condition) so overall I'm a happy camper!

Thanks for asking.

a reply to: Riffrafter

Hi-Point pistols can do ya pretty well. I used to have a .45 of theirs, no real recoil, easy to use, no safety except not chambering the first round, not too bad when it comes to cost. Best advice though go see a local shop owner and let them know you're looking.

Riffrafter, now that you picked up a 9mm Glock, you have some decisions to make. Barrels under 120mm in length ( Walther P-38, et al.), rob you of part of the 9mm's impact energy. Just like when shooting 357's in snubbys. Big flashes, loudest noises inside of a room, and too much recoil.

Glock demanded in early pistols, that you not use reloaded ammo in them. This may have changed, but there was/is a cottage industry in selling replacement barrels, with full ramps needed for shooting reloaded ammo. They felt that new cases would stretch at their bases for one pass. But this meant no do overs, AKA ( reloading ).

A 9mm Parabellum works fine just as it was delivered in 1908. This is with the classic 115 gr. FMJ bullet. I'd hate to see you try and make it into a 380acp or even the 38acp. Remington always wanted to use the 124 gr. bullets, but I bet the Glock you picked up, will do better with the classic, and snappy, Winchester 115 gr. FMJ, loads.

Lastly, please do this one test. When and where it's safe, rack the slide, loading a live round, and then rack it again, and again, to extract and eject said rounds, without shooting them. Auto pistols don't really need effective extractors, as long as you shoot them dry. But in a dark house, after a scare, you want to be absolutely sure that your pistol will extract the last loaded round from your chamber, after you have dropped your detachable magazine out the bottom of the grip frame.

Just use modern 9mm defense ammo for self-defense, and 9mm whatever for plinking.

I recommend ( and carry ) Hornady Critical Duty for defense. Speer Gold Dot is great too. Both bullet designs are excellent. Do not use FMJ 9mm for self-defense.

There is no such thing as a snappy 9mm. If it seems like it, tighten your off hand grip.

Glocks are fine to use with reloads, just not lead reloads. Check the rounds for a bulge near the head before reloading them is all.

I don't know about everyone else, but I always like for my semi-autos to have excellent extraction, wet or dry. Also, there is no need to unload a gun "after a scare", just put it back on safe ( if it has a safety ) or put it back where it was. All you do by constantly loading and unloading is risk bullet setback. A proper handgun won't just fire on it's own, it only goes off if you press the trigger.

Repeat after me: "An unloaded gun is just an expensive club."

a reply to: Riffrafter

Outstanding! Great choice and I'm glad you like it. Sorry if I missed your posting of this.

Which one? The 19?

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Riffrafter

Outstanding! Great choice and I'm glad you like it. Sorry if I missed your posting of this.

Which one? The 19?

Yes sir - the 19.

And I like it more every day.

Thanks for the input and advice.