Men nearly caused human extinction 7,000 years ago, new theory states

a reply to: toms54

We are, but the late bronze age collapse is linked ti earlier events, besides its just funny

a reply to: toms54

Youve got it backwards the Mycenaens were a Minoan client state, and took over after the Minoan trade hegemony collapsed with the loss of the fleet during the theran eruption.

a reply to: toms54

That is the first time I have ever heard anyone acknowledge that cannibals might kill and eat live males before they kill and eat live females, or even think of that potentiality … and I think that is exactly what is likely to happen in cannibalism if a society must choose cannibalism or not, in the absence of warfare.

Wow. You got me thinking, and thanks for that!

a reply to: Devino

I like your thinking, I just dont subscribe to CME theory doing anything major to one side of the planet and not the other ala Luthiers comments. Not to deride him, but EMPs dont fx in the historical record as he claims.

Eta: today, with soft handed non naturalist mainstream, a massive CME would destroy what we know socially today.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Devino

I like your thinking, I just dont subscribe to CME theory doing anything major to one side of the planet and not the other ala Luthiers comments. Not to deride him, but EMPs dont fx in the historical record as he claims.

Eta: today, with soft handed non naturalist mainstream, a massive CME would destroy what we know socially today.

I gave you the paper summary from the University of Arizona They disagree. Not only do they knock out the ozone layer the plasma/ lighting creates nano diamonds and most likely triggers earthquakes and volcanoes that were set to blow.

It also was not half the earth.

Many times stronger than the Carrington event.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
I'll just leave this here.

personal.eunet.fi...
very interesting compliation of stuff.

And then there is this,

Originally identified in buried soils of Northern Syria on the basis of distinctive facies
anomalies produced by windstorms of unprecedented high energy, the 4 kyr BP (4.2
ka BP cal. BP) dust event is often commonly presented as the greatest historically
recorded drought of the Holocene. The related dust spikes traced in the Gulf of Oman,
in the Andes glaciers and in the Kilimanjaro ice sheet are currently interpreted as a
300 years persisting aridity with drastic effects on civilizations across the Middle-
East and Asia. Systematic investigations on soils, archaeological sediments, lacustrine
and marine records across the Northern and Southern hemispheres have leaded us to
propose the alternative explanation of an impact-event. The results obtained are here
summarized in order to further explain how impact-linked processes have resulted into
a unique dust event that shows confusing resemblance to a climate-triggered drought.

These results consolidate the originality of the 4 kyr BP dust event, reflected by its
instantaneous initiation, its widespread occurrence and complex structure at regional
scales in terms of intensity and duration. The vertical dispersion of the impact debris
due to settling conditions at great water depth and subsequent reworking by bottom
currents gives the erroneous impression in deep-sea cores of a long-lasting event, although
the exact fall of the impact-debris flow was most likely not exceeding a few
days. In addition, the high resolution records in terrestrial settings has allowed to identify
fall of the impact fine aerosols loaded in the upper atmosphere, and later washed
by rains in the following months.

www.dropbox.com...


Oh, and this

Identifying the adaptation of hunter-gatherer communities to particular situations that provided natural resources
is a major concern for multidisciplinary team studying archaeological contexts. This challenge is illustrated in
the desertic El Kowm basin in central Syria by data from Hummal and El Kowm Paleolithic sites. The sites
form prominent mounds at artesian springs resulting from recurrent episodes of lacustrine, limnic and aeolian
sedimentation in pseudo-karstic depressions. The few meter sequences provide semi-continuous succession of archaeological
levels from the Oldest Palaeolithic (Oldowan) to the early Neolithic period. This long term continuity
of occupation is partly due to attracting conditions due to the profusion of water from epithermal artesian wells
during periods of high water recharge. In addition, we document here the unique potential of this endoreic basin
to have accumulated singular fossil combustible of high energy value during particular environmental episodes.
The latter are represented by the recurrence of distinctive black organogenic facies showing a contrasting micro
stratification formed of interlayered grey calcareous silty clay, dark brown organic rich clay and dull orange clay.
Spatial excavation has shown the unique preservation of Palaeolithic occupation surfaces in association to the
microstratified facies. High resolution sampling and multi-proxy analysis have allowed explaining the formation of
the microstratified facies from rapid changes of environmental conditions in response to contrasting fluctuations of
atmospheric dust loading, precipitation events, rainwater quality and evapotranspiration. Organogenic microfacies
formed at different time periods share common compositional assemblage and structural behaviour: occurrence of
exotic fine sand-sized debris formed of metal-rich carbonaceous components with polymer, fine charcoal, vitrous
carbon, carbon fibres, and exotic rock clasts with a metal-rich carbonaceous coating; highly stable microstructure
and low wettability. Based on their analytical properties, the carbonaceous polymorphs and the associated mineral
components are shown to deriving from fossil combustible of stratospheric origin. The comparison with modern
analogues (cf. Courty et al., 2012) has provided keys to explaining the organogenic microfacies from accumulation
episodes of exotic stratospheric aerosols in response to serial meteor explosion at high altitude. Geogenic markers
and microfacies pattern show four situations: (1) nearly intact ancient surfaces with pulverized carbonaceous
composite debris that trace the local effects of meteor explosion ; (2) secondary concentrations expressing
accumulation of stratospheric aerosols from the heavy rainfall events subsequent to the meteor explosions; (3)
relictual concentrations resulting from selective accumulation of the most resistant components by chemical and
physical erosion along to the fossilization; (4) human-controlled concentrations of the unusual debris indicating
intentional collect, use and transformation of the singular fossil combustible and related materials. Ancient
humans are thus suggested to have regularly exploited the local sources of the singular fossil combustible that
formed during episodes of serial cosmic explosions. The direct effect of increased atmospheric dust loading on
precipitation regime explains the apparent synchrony between occupation phases and local climate changes. These
are simply two distinctive responses to a common cause.
Courty, Benoît and Vaillant (2012). Possible interaction of meteor explosion with stratospheric aerosols on cloud
nucleation based on 2011 observations. Geophysical Research Abstracts Vol. 14, EGU2012.

www.dropbox.com...

Then there is Bailley,

Given that our starting point was an earthly event deduced
from tree rings, how might we explain the fact that
much of the associated »235o BC« material shares hints of
things falling out of the sky? Here it is necessary to look at
some science. There exists a body of research by some astronomers
suggesting that within the past 2o ooo years, a giant
comet, possibly many tens of kilometres in size, was injected
into the inner solar system and underwent a progressive
series of disintegrations, resulting in the broad stream
of cometary debris which makes up the Taurid meteor complex
observed today (Bailey et al. 199o; Asher et al. 1994).
Indeed, these astronomers believe, on the basis of tracking
back meteor orbits, that at least one major fragmentation
event within this comet complex occurred in the 3rd millennium
BC, prior to 235o BC2. They believe it quite likely that
the Earth may have been subjected to significant bombardment
in the 3rd millennium BC.

www.dropbox.com...

And Dienekes blog hit at the early bronze age Y dna bottle neck, where nearly all of the populations sampled have population minimums around 4.2 kya.
One thing to remeber about genteics based date data, they are based on mutation rates, which are not set in stone. So depending on the mutation rate used in the particular study genetic dating can and does vary widely.
The physical evience is clear that something world wide happened approx 4500-4800 years ago, and that it was part of a longer series of events than may have lasted for several millenia of the neolithic.

The Earth passing through the tail of a massive comet fits this history perfectly.

a reply to: luthier

Im willing to look, I havent had the time, Im a permaculture farmer, and have a full time management job...this is a weekend

Now, just because its a singular study, doesnt make it true...let me digest your material, but Ill be back with much more regarding the same time frame...driving fenceposts at 10pm in the pitch dark to protect my flocks et al is breaking my aging arse.

Its a pity all of us arent arguing about how to create the present, rather than beating up the past


star for whatever reason folks give them. I enjoy debating with you.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Devino

I like your thinking, I just dont subscribe to CME theory doing anything major to one side of the planet and not the other ala Luthiers comments. Not to deride him, but EMPs dont fx in the historical record as he claims.

Eta: today, with soft handed non naturalist mainstream, a massive CME would destroy what we know socially today.

I don't think it would necessarily be a CME. The event in question has been theorized to be decades long if not centuries. CMEs are short lived. Peratt has shown that an increase in solar activity would make for an awesome light show, aurora wise.

If I understand it correctly an increase in solar activity would mean more charged particles in the solar wind which would have an effect on the Earth's magnetic field, possibly making it stronger and more dense, while creating amazing aurorae.

An increase in lighting? That's a new one. It has been a while since I've read about this. It wasn't long ago that a claim that the Sun is linked to atmospheric lighting would have been considered ludicrous yet after reading this thread I found this article;

Activity on the Sun is sparking lightning strikes here on Earth, a study suggests.

Scientists have found that when gusts of high-speed solar particles enter our atmosphere, the number of lightning bolts increases.

www.bbc.com...
It always seemed logical to me yet it sure is nice to read about it as a scientific study. What's next, an increase in solar activity effects Earth's magnetic field making it stronger?

a reply to: punkinworks10
After skimming over your post, rather quickly, it reminds me of Immanuel Velikovsky's World's in Collision. Makes me wish I had more time to read up on all this new stuff.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Now I understand how the climate events fit.

a reply to: Devino

V. was close yet, so wrong on many levels, and I dont buy into the whole catastrophism/gradualism philosophical discussion. The universe is both chaotic and gradual at the same time.

a reply to: toms54

Climate and human society are intimately linked.
In the case of the 4.2 kye, the extreme aridity that besets the western and central eurasia makes crops fail and rivers dry up. It cause groups to start to move around trying to find a new place to grow crops or graze their livestock.
As each group encroaches on the neighboring groups, they in turn will push on tneir neighbors.
This is how the Akkadians fell, pressure from the displaced Gutian barbarians, who were in fact Indo european horsemen.

Increased carbon-14 levels in tree rings occurred in 5480 BC some 7000 years ago. So our sun or some other cosmic event might have bathed the earth in cosmic rays causing bottleneck in humans.

Other cosmic events include outbursts from our Milky Way’s Super massive Black Hole which can bathe our planet in X-rays at far greater intensities, and for for much longer, than local solar X-class flares here.

Men may have had to suffer the extremities in search of food whilst women protected themselves in caves.

a reply to: glend

A large and sudden increase in radiocarbon (14C) around AD 773 are documented in coral skeletons from the South China Sea. The 14C increased by ~ 15‰ during winter, and remain elevated for more than 4 months, then increased and dropped down within two months, forming a spike of 45‰ high in late spring, followed by two smaller spikes. The 14C anomalies coincide with an historic comet collision with the Earth's atmosphere on 17 January AD 773. Comas are known to have percent-levels of nitrogen by weight, and are exposed to cosmic radiation in space. Hence they may be expected to contain highly elevated 14C/12C ratios, as compared to the Earth's atmosphere. The significant input of 14C by comets may have contributed to the fluctuation of 14C in the atmosphere throughout the Earth's history, which should be considered carefully to better constrain the cosmic ray fluctuation.

Mysterious abrupt carbon-14 increase in coral contributed by a comet
Mysterious abrupt carbon-14 increase in coral contributed by a comet

This study is very good since we have a historical record that tells us there was a comet at the same time as the c14 spike.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Nice find. That paper dismisses cosmic rays because "Such high levels of radiation however, might also cause mass extinctions which are absent following the AD 773 event.".

The ~5480 BC event presumably caused human depopulation but were other animals affected?

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: Harte


Harte I would think you of all people would have some kind of theory/scenario about the bottleneck .. Even a good guess ?

For decades, there was a theory about another bottleneck - from the Toba eruption.
Recently, evidence has surfaced that disproves that theory.

I think I'll just remain skeptical.

Harte

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: luthier
Look at Egypt.. it used to be a quack theory the sphinx was older than 2500 bc. Now it's being accepted the head was recarved and the pyramids are on older mounds.

"Accepted?"
Hardly.

Maybe accepted by you.

Harte

It is certainly becoming accepted. The problem with egyprologists is they haven't been very scientific. They were mostly linguist, art historians etc. Once geologists and physicists entered they starting finding things the old crew did not want to talk about. Of course this is common in academia. People have books and reputations.

But look into it. A lot of egyprologists are confirming this is the case. In fact it has been repaired several times.

No, it's not being accepted. It's not.
No matter what you might prefer.

Schoch's theory relies on the assumption of a uniform bedrock, where there is none. On top of that, his theory relies on the assumption that the rear of the sphinx was carved in the 4th dynasty.

His date for the Sphinx rests entirely on subsurface weathering, not rainfall, and he measured said weathering in (at least) two different beds of limestone bedrock with very different properties.

Besides, his own data shows the sides of the sphinx are older than the front or rear, while at the same time he claims the front was carved in antiquity, and the rest finished off in the 4th dynasty.

If this was even close to be accepted by anyone, the soundings he made (and there were only a few, with only ONE measurement taken in the rear of the enclosure) would be repeated by several different researchers.

That's what you do - repeat the experiment. That's called science.

The Giza Plateau Mapping Project put the final nail in the coffin of Schoch's theory. It's over, except on fringe websites/books/"conferences," "Ancient Aliens," and discussion boards like this one.


Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: luthier
Look at Egypt.. it used to be a quack theory the sphinx was older than 2500 bc. Now it's being accepted the head was recarved and the pyramids are on older mounds.

"Accepted?"
Hardly.

Maybe accepted by you.

Harte

It is certainly becoming accepted. The problem with egyprologists is they haven't been very scientific. They were mostly linguist, art historians etc. Once geologists and physicists entered they starting finding things the old crew did not want to talk about. Of course this is common in academia. People have books and reputations.

But look into it. A lot of egyprologists are confirming this is the case. In fact it has been repaired several times.

No, it's not being accepted. It's not.
No matter what you might prefer.

Schoch's theory relies on the assumption of a uniform bedrock, where there is none. On top of that, his theory relies on the assumption that the rear of the sphinx was carved in the 4th dynasty.

His date for the Sphinx rests entirely on subsurface weathering, not rainfall, and he measured said weathering in (at least) two different beds of limestone bedrock with very different properties.

Besides, his own data shows the sides of the sphinx are older than the front or rear, while at the same time he claims the front was carved in antiquity, and the rest finished off in the 4th dynasty.

If this was even close to be accepted by anyone, the soundings he made (and there were only a few, with only ONE measurement taken in the rear of the enclosure) would be repeated by several different researchers.

That's what you do - repeat the experiment. That's called science.

The Giza Plateau Mapping Project put the final nail in the coffin of Schoch's theory. It's over, except on fringe websites/books/"conferences," "Ancient Aliens," and discussion boards like this one.


Harte

It's not just schoch's theory. Other geologists have said similar, Reader for one. Schoch is not an ancient alien theorist. Schoch is a tenured professor at BU and has more scientific degrees than most egyptologists whom have not been very warm to science in general. Leher may be but again he can also be chasing confirmation bias like schoch. The forensic science study of the head showed it doesn't seem to be his claim.

Can you show the data for the giza mapping project? Is it available?

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: luthier

Im willing to look, I havent had the time, Im a permaculture farmer, and have a full time management job...this is a weekend

Now, just because its a singular study, doesnt make it true...let me digest your material, but Ill be back with much more regarding the same time frame...driving fenceposts at 10pm in the pitch dark to protect my flocks et al is breaking my aging arse.

Its a pity all of us arent arguing about how to create the present, rather than beating up the past

star for whatever reason folks give them. I enjoy debating with you.

Thank you for doing your part to create the present by taking yourself out of the consumer chain how ever limited or great. Permaculture is a fantastic way to live.

I understand it's not an end all it just provides some data to consider.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: toms54

Youve got it backwards the Mycenaens were a Minoan client state, and took over after the Minoan trade hegemony collapsed with the loss of the fleet during the theran eruption.

I stand corrected. That would make Minoans to be cannibals. To be fair there isn't really proof of widespread cannibalism throughout their entire history. Just one site that I'm aware of shows hard evidence of that and child sacrifice. Aegean Prehistoric Archaeology Lesson 15

I think cannibalism was widespread in Europe back in the day at least ritualistically. Here is a link about England. Palaeolithic remains show cannibalistic habits of human ancestors