Observation on fish intelligence

We used to always joke that I was a strange deity called "Food Shape" with my fish.

They knew which of us was me and that I did the feeding. They never failed to come to the glass and beg when I walked past. If it wasn't me, they either hid or ignored whomever it was. And that was even with me having them on a feeding schedule.

Some of the most interesting stuff I've witnessed was during my years keeping various cichlid species. Watching males find ways to accommodate each other without having to fight was always a treat. For example, I had two male Cyathopharynx furcifer in a 6' tank. You'd think they'd divide the tank into halves and each would stake out one end. But instead, the lights were on timer in such a way that ambient room lighting would last for three to four hours past tank lights going off, and that's how they divided their time.

The dominant male used the nest and displayed with the tank lights, and the sub-dominant male took over the nest and displayed after the tank lights went off.

We named the two Lights-On and Lights-Off.

a reply to: ketsuko

Beautiful story =)

originally posted by: belkide
a reply to: rickymouse

I can really say the tangs try stuff on me =) Very very interesting creatures. Oh btw guys one of the parrot fish is disabled. Born without a back fin. Nobody was getting that guy so I got him. His/her name is Uncle.

. As they change sex I don't know if its Uncle or Aunt now =)

I might be able to help him with that, after all, I am almost full Finn.

Yeah, it's all good looking at other lives from our own point of view. They are just little, just a pet, a joke really. In their own worlds, they make life decisions and choices just like us. I think everyone has the right to live free.

“This study reveals the sophisticated process that determines mating decisions and shows a very strong effect of the social environment in the evolution of reproductive behaviour generally,” says Dr Alex Jordan, of the UNSW Evolution and Ecology Research Centre, who co-authored the study with the centre's director, Professor Rob Brooks.

www.sciencealert.com...

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Yeah, it's all good looking at other lives from our own point of view. They are just little, just a pet, a joke really. In their own worlds, they make life decisions and choices just like us. I think everyone has the right to live free.

“This study reveals the sophisticated process that determines mating decisions and shows a very strong effect of the social environment in the evolution of reproductive behaviour generally,” says Dr Alex Jordan, of the UNSW Evolution and Ecology Research Centre, who co-authored the study with the centre's director, Professor Rob Brooks.

www.sciencealert.com...

Well you're free to have your opinion but if you've never kept a tank seriously you don't know much about tropical fish. What you've noted here takes place in a tank. That's why you have to be careful with the fish species that you keep together.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Dude if you ever had a happy spoiled dog, fish can be the same way. When you add the right balance of fish in a tank it becomes an interactive community, not unlike this discussion board. I have found that my fish appearing to have parties and use to keep a camera on the tank when I wasn't around so I could see what they were up to later.

Better than prime time tv sometimes.

OP: may I suggest you swap out the hippo tangs for an a single or mated pair of pygmy angelfish?? They are not bad looking. Angelfish can become hostile even across species, but would not really bully smaller fish.

I use to hop around to our local reef clubs meeting at members homes, I have seen systems built we'l over 15,000$ , and multiple systems in different homes worth upwards of ten thousand. I linked up with them on reefcentral.com . You can search for your municipality by state to find if your community has a club. I highly recommend you join them if there is one available. The Insight you gain is priceless, and you get to make new friends with the family too. Alot of people sustain their hobby with aquacultured coral frags. Domestic production. Helps to offset and curb cultivation in the wild.

It can be quite lucrative actually. I know of at least six guys that sell coral successfully when. I was there. Gotta get the overnight shipping routine and packaging down to a science though if you want succeed as the bulk of income comes from online sales.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Dude if you ever had a happy spoiled dog, fish can be the same way. When you add the right balance of fish in a tank it becomes an interactive community, not unlike this discussion board.

I don't believe in the whole "pet" process. If a wild starving creature comes around I will help it out if feasible. The raising of animals for "pets' leaves a nasty state for all of their kind. It causes "Each year, approximately 2.7 million animals are euthanized (1.2 million dogs and 1.4 million cats)." Plus pet food recalls for the euthanizing drug in the food, how does that happen?

Yes, fish socialize in a tank but they didn't choose who they associate with as you wouldn't in prison. Same for birds kept in a stupid cage.

People call this love. If I wanted to look at my child with love forever and locked them in a room and fed them would that be love? You love something it has the freedom to live its own life. A tank is not the sea.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

You are ascribing mammalian sensations to fish. They don't have them. Fishes sensations include reproduction, eating and not getting eaten.

Look at the newer studies. Your own experiences tell you the truth but it means caring beyond what we want.
www.npr.org...

On the aquarium trade and the popularity of the blue tang, the fish featured in the movie Finding Dory

Some of the methods to catch [blue tang] are pretty awful. Cyanide poisoning, which often kills many of the fishes being targeted, or ones not being targeted, and explosive devices are sometimes used. And then you have the vicissitudes of transport, where they're shipped over continents and the mortality rates are quite high. ...

On some reef fish appearing to recognize individual divers There was a new study ... showing individual recognition of human faces by fishes. So they probably do recognize individual divers. They come up to be stroked. It is almost like a dog. I don't know if they roll over to have their belly petted, though some sharks will be sent into what looks like a euphoric state when they have their bellies rubbed.

www.npr.org...

They [fish] develop cultural traditions and can even recognize themselves and others They also show signs of Machiavellian intelligence, such as cooperation and reconciliation Professor Brown said the primary senses of the fish are "just as good" and in some cases better than that of humans.
The level of mental complexity that fish display is on a par with most other vertebrates, while there is mounting evidence that they can feel pain in a manner similar to humans.

www.psychologytoday.com...

They showed not only that fish do get feelings, but this study might give us a better understanding of how emotions came to be in the first place. Since fish represent a different evolutionary branch than tetrapods, this might indicate that emotions emerged before the two groups separated. Alternatively, it could be a case of convergent evolution.
www.zmescience.com...

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I've got to admit my 50 years experience with fish doesn't compare to untested studies.

a reply to: intrepid

And that includes saltwater aquarium at home? Also you are describing us humans so I cant see much difference. I am not sarcastic here.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

You can tell when. Fish is not doing well, because it swims differently, loses color, slows down, succumbs to parasites. If somebody has the same fish for two years, those fish are happy. If they were not, they would have succumbed to stress and die before the end of year one.

Learn a little bit more before you get so judgy. The .ost popular reef store in the area here serves enthusiasts who drive from all over central Florida to oldsmar. Top notch service, a true friend of the ocean who has developed decades long partnerships with independent diver from Fiji, Tonga, vanatu, Hawaii and Indonesia that I am aware. That for the fish mostly, because 95% of his cOral are either aquacultured himself or cuts deals with other hobbyists who do the same in a supply trade for diversity. The growing sentiment in the industry is sustainability. Florida is a top exporter of domestically cultured coral and even reef fish as well lately.

The industry is making grand efforts to reduce its impact in the wild by choosing to follow consumer trends of sustainable domestic production, and we re all the more thankful for it.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

+1

Florida is almost the center of the studies. And for preserving the wildlife also the buyer should contribute. For example divers in not developed countries or vice versa use cyanide to stun the fish for more than 30 hours to catch and transport. It is so harmful to the wildlife and extremely to the fish so the hobbyist has to make sure or find a way to be sure that they are not using it for the wildlife's and fishes' sake.

a reply to: belkide
Yes from USF, the the Florida Aquarium, the Mote Marine Laboratory and just about every university in the state we are doing our best not only to make sure every hobbyist can purchase aquaculture frags and fish to reduce their impact on the wild, but many programs are doing aquaculture to try and replenish existing reefs that have suffered hard.

The Florida Aquarium is doing a pilot program with Cuban counterparts for reef study and rebuilding.

But on to the fish! The only fish you really should move out of your 40 gallon are the tangs and the parrotfish. Put them in your larger setup later down the road. Once they reach 4 inches each, they may start to get hostile towards each other and become stressed in that environment.

The good news is you can add up to a half dozen - eight smaller fish that stay small, are quite striking in color, and have some fun personality. Here are some good picks for your system if you have great rockwork.

These dragonettes require an established chain of copepods/isopods. If you have had the tank for some time, you may already have them. They are the tiny shrimplike looking bugs you may see sometimes moving in the sand and rockwork. It is extremely difficult to train these guys to eat frozen food. But any system that has been established for at least six months usually has a decent supply of his natural food.

These guys are easy to care for, take flake and frozen foods, have a mild temperament and add a nice splash of color.

The six line wrasse is another tame beauty. The one I had was as picky as the dragonette, but probably only because it had an ample supply of live food in the system. Never had any problems with this guy.
The diamond goby here, I have never seen this behavior in my own tank, but am finding it quite comical right now. Looks like he is having a feud with a blenny trying to dig his burrow. I had a diamond goby, but your rockwork needs to be really secure or he will cause some avalanches. Alternately, after he passed away, I went smaller and got a yellow and a green clown goby instead.


I would also reccomend a handful of green chromis in your larger tank. They do like to shoal together which just adds that extra element. I only had three in my first 30 gallon, but I doubled it to six when I upgraded to the 72. Its kinda of funny because if one of the other fish tried to nip at one for whatever reason they would all dart in a different direction and the aggressor would seem confused.


The only tang I kept afterwards of realizing I just did not have a large enough system to keep them comfortably was the Kole Tang.

I appreciate you making this thread and giving me a trip down memory lane. Hopefully we have provided some educational input as well for those who do not understand the fascination or the efforts the industry makes to reduce its negative impact.