The Atheist Challenge

For the record, my views on the existence of a God can be described as unknown. I do not claim to know if God does or does not exist. If God does exist, then we probably aren't at a level of progression/comprehension necessary to acknowledge/understand God. Having said that, I have come up with a question that seriously challenges the plausibility of atheism:

If life came about by the process of abiogenesis, what was the probability that the earliest forms of life (organic matter) could not only survive, but evolve to the extent of there existing various types of multi-cellular organisms?

Terminology explained:
God: a supreme being that created life/existence
Atheist: an individual who does not believe that God exists
Abiogenesis: the natural process by which life arises from non-living matter

Anybody that believes the answer is >0% should explain how such a conclusion is plausible.

a reply to: Incandescent

If life came about by the process of abiogenesis, what was the probability that the earliest forms of life (organic matter) could not only survive, but evolve to the extent of there existing various types of multi-cellular organisms?

What is the probability? Well, it happened, so.... Or, were you considering, the probability, as the myth goes, that "god" simply spoke the universe into existence, with life on earth as we know it already in tact, viruses, bacteria, algae, hives of bees filled with pre made honey, and ants in complex colonies, already doing there thing?

What is the probability that, if there is a God, it invented natural laws, and works within the confines of those laws?

What if "god", is more than one, and is a highly advanced group of scientists? What if life as we know it on Earth is their expiramental project? And, that this group of scientists used natural laws to let their project "cook" and evolve?

What is the probability that there is a mythical god that ceated life that requires the death and the consumption of life in order to sustain life? Because, on planet Earth, life devours life to sustain life. What kind of psycho plan is that? What is the probability that God is a psychopath that puts living things in a "cage" and watches them fight for their lives to the death?

Life arising from non-living matter, this happens because (in my understanding) a set of "non-living" things came together to work hand by hand to cooperate in a way that will ensure the preservation of it existence.
(Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong, if I am.)

Just that tells me that there is some kind of conciousness in those "non-living" matter. Some type of intelligence is involved in everything, even in "non-living" matter.

Therefore God must exist (at least in my opinion, I'm a believer). To prove it is quite difficult (like I said in another thread, some faith is expected or like the OP stated - "If God does exist, then we probably aren't at a level of progression/comprehension necessary to acknowledge/understand God.")

a reply to: Incandescent

Why make it an “atheist challenge”?

Plenty of people who aren’t atheists think abiogenesis (or a form of) occurred and some atheists don’t think abiogenesis occurred.

a reply to: TerryDon79


Because, for some "believers" if you don't believe the Bible veersion of god and creation, you're an athiest.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: TerryDon79


Because, for some "believers" if you don't believe the Bible veersion of god and creation, you're an athiest.

I’ve noticed that too.

Funny thing is, early scientists who are part of the “Where did we come from? How did we get here?” sciences, were religious. Charles Darwin, for instance, was religious.

I think the best person who explained their form of god tobme, said their god created the building blocks (atoms and so on) and let it do it’s thing to see where it leads to.

I thought this was going to be a fun challenge like dumping a bucket of Bibles on your head and posting the video.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I thought this was going to be a fun challenge like dumping a bucket of Bibles on your head and posting the video.

I’ll gladly do the dumping. Now, where did i put that 100’ ladder?

a reply to: Incandescent


I believe God created us. The fact that ANYTHING at all exists proves God can. The reason its 2018, is because Christ died 2018 years ago. B.C. Before Christ A.D. Anno Domini.

I'm not an athiest, but researchers have found that self-replicating RNA can be created under natural environmental conditions.

Researchers synthesized the basic ingredients of RNA, a molecule from which the simplest self-replicating structures are made.

RNA is now found in living cells, where it carries information between genes and protein-manufacturing cellular components. Scientists think RNA existed early in Earth's history, providing a necessary intermediate platform between pre-biotic chemicals and DNA

"Ribonucleotides are simply an expression of the fundamental principles of organic chemistry," said Sutherland."
Source

a reply to: Incandescent

"Atheist challenge" WTF bro?
I don't believe in any gods due to complete lack of evidence to support the claims. Equally, I don't make any claims that abiogenesis is the answer. I don't know, and frankly don't care, I just enjoy the existence I perceive right now.
Sheesh, atheist challenge ffs.

originally posted by: Incandescent
For the record, my views on the existence of a God can be described as unknown. I do not claim to know if God does or does not exist. If God does exist, then we probably aren't at a level of progression/comprehension necessary to acknowledge/understand God. Having said that, I have come up with a question that seriously challenges the plausibility of atheism:

if you can't plausibly explain your own view, or alternate views, why does it occur to you to specifically challenge this one?

originally posted by: kurthall
a reply to: Incandescent


I believe God created us. The fact that ANYTHING at all exists proves God can. The reason its 2018, is because Christ died 2018 years ago. B.C. Before Christ A.D. Anno Domini.

Case in point. If Christian claims are correct, why is their logic so bad?

Why do they describe their reasons for believing like this?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I thought this was going to be a fun challenge like dumping a bucket of Bibles on your head and posting the video.

You have to stick them up your bum first and then slaughter a pink gerbil whilst wearing an Aardvark skin leotard and a pink tutu before doing so...

Come on man... be serious and respect Masonic rites!

originally posted by: kurthall
a reply to: Incandescent


I believe God created us... ...The reason its 2018, is because Christ died 2018 years ago. B.C. Before Christ A.D. Anno Domini.

That's no different than saying Shiva is a real deity because Hindus celebrate him during the Mahashivaratri holiday. Nobody actually knows when Jesus was born (if he was) because there's no record of it. the AD/BC thing was only developed several hundred years after Jesus supposedly died.

Ambiogenesis means that ultimately, life arose from nothingness. Before there was a soup for ambiogenesis to take place in, there was nothingness. You can declare ambiogenesis all day, but for people with an idea of nothingness you have to go back to the Big Bang. But what set that off? What kind of cause would have transformed nothingness into our universe? This whole universe, for all of its complexities, and all of it causes is built on a foundation of nothingness.
But for some reason existence is a duality of positive and negative influences- love and hate, light and darkness, joy and sorrow. And we the people, from all cultures across our world experience these emotions, which also came out of nothing, but are dependent on humans for full expression. Sure animals seem to exhibit some basic expressions that are often mistaken for the deep and complex emotions that are part of the human being intellect.

originally posted by: Incandescent
Having said that, I have come up with a question that seriously challenges the plausibility of atheism:

If life came about by the process of abiogenesis, what was the probability that the earliest forms of life (organic matter) could not only survive, but evolve to the extent of there existing various types of multi-cellular organisms?


Anybody that believes the answer is >0% should explain how such a conclusion is plausible.

I believe the answer is >0% for several reasons:

1. If life came about by abiogenesis, our existence is proof that the chance of our earliest precursors surviving is greater than 0%.

2. The first 'living' organisms must have been well adapted to their environment otherwise they could not have existed. As they were the first, there would have been no predators, and so their survival must have been rather more statistically possible than the survival of the first man, who faced numerous predators and environmental pressures.

3. It seems that you view evoluton as a process or a set of rules, and believe those rules could not have arisen on their own. In fact, evolution is just an endless reshuffling of genetic material. Its rather like the monkeys typing Shakespeare-given enough time and enough monkeys, they'll eventually type the entirety of Romeo & Juliet purely by chance. It seems a bit arrogant to say that only a God can explain my existence, particularly when I know a grain of rice has more genes than I do. I accept that I'm just a lucky accumulation of genetic material (a phrase I intend to use as an insult from now on).

Ah, the bible-bois are at it (again).

Okay, to follow the procedure: >0%, as you were able to type your "challenge" into that magic keyboard.

BTW: Is there any point in the bible telling us about the "internet"? Or "computer" as such?


Now, tell us about the propability of a god. Where did it come from? Why? What was before god?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Incandescent

If life came about by the process of abiogenesis, what was the probability that the earliest forms of life (organic matter) could not only survive, but evolve to the extent of there existing various types of multi-cellular organisms?

What is the probability? Well, it happened, so.... Or, were you considering, the probability, as the myth goes, that "god" simply spoke the universe into existence, with life on earth as we know it already in tact, viruses, bacteria, algae, hives of bees filled with pre made honey, and ants in complex colonies, already doing there thing?

What is the probability that, if there is a God, it invented natural laws, and works within the confines of those laws?

What if "god", is more than one, and is a highly advanced group of scientists? What if life as we know it on Earth is their expiramental project? And, that this group of scientists used natural laws to let their project "cook" and evolve?

What is the probability that there is a mythical god that ceated life that requires the death and the consumption of life in order to sustain life? Because, on planet Earth, life devours life to sustain life. What kind of psycho plan is that? What is the probability that God is a psychopath that puts living things in a "cage" and watches them fight for their lives to the death?

Then from where did the highly advanced groups of scientist come from? Yet another more advanced scientist?

Thinking, like most thinking do on this subject, I am always freaked out that although micro-evolution is observable and more than likely a fact, finch beaks and dolphin blowholes, etc, it does not seem that species evolution is quite on yet. Still a theory to me.

In that regard I wonder at times if initial species just "appear" from the lattice fully formed and then evolve from there?

Seems impossible, but who knows?