if you had proof of a god , would you actually worship it ?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Going back to the OP question, if an all knowing god was shown to be proven then why would I even bother pretending to worship it? It would surely already know I thought it was a barbaric monster. Pretty crap god if it needed me to tell it.
"Yeah, carry on eating your popcorn mate while you watch children starve to death, prick"

Lol
Well apparently there was a time when we existed in paradise.
All the food we could eat (apart from the fruit from that one tree over there).
We didn't even need clothes the weather was that nice.

However, again apparently, we decided to know good and evil and it all went to # from there.
Adam suddenly thought his ding ding was too small, Eve wasn't happy with the size of her hips. God wasn't happy about this either.
There was a lot of blame shifting, "oooo the serpent tricked me, ooooo the women talked me into it" instead of someone just taking responsibility for their own # up.
As a result, the serpent's got no legs, Eve needs pethidine when squeezing one out and we gotta toil the land for food!


Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I started questioning God about starving children I'd imagine his response would be something like:
"WTF you on about? I had it all set up nice. You wanted something else so I let you have at it. Left you to it. Now tell me, what did you personally, and you as humanity as a whole do about those starving children?"

We can't have it both ways can we?
Or can we?



DISCLAIMER: Not a belief. Just a train of thought

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego
Is 50/50.

Is there a possibility for God to exist? Yes.
Is there a possibility for God not exist? Yes.
Is there a probability for God to exist? Yes
Is there a probability for God not exist? Yes.

We literally just had this convo a couple of pages ago. We calculate probability by collecting as much evidence that supports such a claim, evaluating that evidence, and then coming to a conclusion.

So first, we need to look at this evidence. What? There is none? Well then that clearly puts the probability close to zero. Unless you have some evidence that no one else has seen yet?

Based on what you just typed. The evidence is zero for both. Still 50/50.

Sorry, but that is not how that works. For instance, there is no evidence that supports the existence of dragons. Would you say the probability for them existing is 50/50? I can find stories about them in books.

How do you explain the fact that you know about them? Someone saw something and call it dragon. Just because you don't see it does not mean it did not exist.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

I see where you are coming from but if modern day gods are giving that argument it would be like me to my son if he lost his job, couldn't pay his way and was on his arse, then I said ah well # you lad, you chose to move out. I can't help you, even though we both know I can coz obvs I'm god.
I think if there is a god then it is a #, and I'll take the burning if I'm wrong, calling him a # all the time it tortures me.
Starving kids ffs, what a monster of a god.

My hypothetical God is yahweh. A true understanding father of ages and written word.

Im a christian with a former hebrew x girlfriend. Peace through wisdom all.

originally posted by: anotherside
My hypothetical God is yahweh. A true understanding father of ages and written word.

Yeah cool god who watches children die of starvation. Your god is a barbaric animal in my opinion, if it actually even exists as some all powerful entity.

a reply to: ignorant_ape
Oh let me see a "god" who by definition is omnipotent and thus can see everything everywhere at all times allows a 12 year old child to be smothered whilst playing in the sand dunes and suffocate to death which has to be an exceptionally painful way to die......quite frankly such a "being" can rot in hell.

I Do NOT believe in God

If by some weird occasion "god" appeared then the sand dune incident (which occurred several year ago over in the UK) would make me have nothing but utter contempt for such a being.

Religious folks and their "we don't know gods purpose".....BS That's a cop out for the sand dune incident and similar. Have the guts to realise there is no God and we mould our own future with absolutely naff all input from some omnipotent being and naff all accountability. When you die, there is no soul, you are dead, deal with it. Make the most of life NOW and should do our utmost to enhance the future of our children NOW....no God need apply.

Stopped reading on the fourth page so sorry if I repeat info but don't forget those people looking outside themselves to define god (and FYI I do believe in a god in that sense too) don't forget about the very ancient, albeit unpopular belief which is making a major comeback today that says that this universe only has one inhabitant, god. And god has somehow shattered its consciousness into billions of pieces which all live separate lives unaware of the fact that I am you and you are I and when we die we remember this making it a bit less depressing to contemplate reincarnation which always spooked me growing up cuz I would only think, "my god, you mean love another woman as much as and call that woman mommy too?!? No thank you!" That lonely thought becomes a lot easier to stomach when I realize in such a universe the African tribeswoman in 2093 who gives birth to me is the exact same person as the woman who did so in the 20th century on the other side of the planet. And even if orphaned, I am the exact same person both of them are anyway.

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego
Is 50/50.

Is there a possibility for God to exist? Yes.
Is there a possibility for God not exist? Yes.
Is there a probability for God to exist? Yes
Is there a probability for God not exist? Yes.

We literally just had this convo a couple of pages ago. We calculate probability by collecting as much evidence that supports such a claim, evaluating that evidence, and then coming to a conclusion.

So first, we need to look at this evidence. What? There is none? Well then that clearly puts the probability close to zero. Unless you have some evidence that no one else has seen yet?

Based on what you just typed. The evidence is zero for both. Still 50/50.

Sorry, but that is not how that works. For instance, there is no evidence that supports the existence of dragons. Would you say the probability for them existing is 50/50? I can find stories about them in books.

How do you explain the fact that you know about them? Someone saw something and call it dragon. Just because you don't see it does not mean it did not exist.

Again, you are missing the point. Bring together all of the evidence for the existence of magical fire breathing dragons, and we’ll have a big bowl of nothing to evaluate. We’ll put it next the the big empty barrel of evidence for god, and then we’ll see which one is more valid than the other.

originally posted by: AlexandrosTheGreat
Stopped reading on the fourth page so sorry if I repeat info but don't forget those people looking outside themselves to define god (and FYI I do believe in a god in that sense too) don't forget about the very ancient, albeit unpopular belief which is making a major comeback today that says that this universe only has one inhabitant, god. And god has somehow shattered its consciousness into billions of pieces which all live separate lives unaware of the fact that I am you and you are I and when we die we remember this making it a bit less depressing to contemplate reincarnation which always spooked me growing up cuz I would only think, "my god, you mean love another woman as much as and call that woman mommy too?!? No thank you!" That lonely thought becomes a lot easier to stomach when I realize in such a universe the African tribeswoman in 2093 who gives birth to me is the exact same person as the woman who did so in the 20th century on the other side of the planet. And even if orphaned, I am the exact same person both of them are anyway.

Gather all of the evidence to support that claim. I have another bucket that should fit all of it.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Gather all of the evidence to support that claim. I have another bucket that should fit all of it.

I did my dishes just now, got a couple of clean Chinese takeaway containers you can borrow to fit the 'proof' of gods in if you like, just message me.
EDIT
I know you don't believe, I was just making a point to theists.

For me the proof of God, Gaia, Universal Infinite Love has to show that it is the real infinite love. If it is, I would not worship because being one with it is not worshipping. It is being a part of that love. It is being together, being one.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego
Is 50/50.

Is there a possibility for God to exist? Yes.
Is there a possibility for God not exist? Yes.
Is there a probability for God to exist? Yes
Is there a probability for God not exist? Yes.

We literally just had this convo a couple of pages ago. We calculate probability by collecting as much evidence that supports such a claim, evaluating that evidence, and then coming to a conclusion.

So first, we need to look at this evidence. What? There is none? Well then that clearly puts the probability close to zero. Unless you have some evidence that no one else has seen yet?

Based on what you just typed. The evidence is zero for both. Still 50/50.

Sorry, but that is not how that works. For instance, there is no evidence that supports the existence of dragons. Would you say the probability for them existing is 50/50? I can find stories about them in books.

How do you explain the fact that you know about them? Someone saw something and call it dragon. Just because you don't see it does not mean it did not exist.

Again, you are missing the point. Bring together all of the evidence for the existence of magical fire breathing dragons, and we’ll have a big bowl of nothing to evaluate. We’ll put it next the the big empty barrel of evidence for god, and then we’ll see which one is more valid than the other.

Again, I'm not missing the point, is that you do not want to accept that the lack of evidence is not sufficient to disprove something.

The evidence we have about the existence of a god or gods is based on what the ancient civilizations wrote. That does not mean they are wrong. Again, they saw or experience something that we do not understand but they call it god(s).

Every civilization in the world, from ancient time to today have some set of beliefs about spiritual or extraordinary beings capable of doing things that we do not comprehend.

That is proof that they saw something, you may want to call it whatever you want: YHVH, Odin, Zeus, Jupiter, Shiva, Quetzacoatl, Ra, Baal, pick a name.

Another evidence is the many people witnessing miracles or been part of them (some maybe true others may not to be honest).
But still they saw and experience something.

Feel free to browse the net to find the testimonials. (Don't believe everything)

If you don't believe, I respect that.
Have a good night.

originally posted by: Abednego
Again, I'm not missing the point, is that you do not want to accept that the lack of evidence is not sufficient to disprove something.

Is that what people are saying? The lack of evidence *disproves* God?

Or, are they saying YOUR lack of evidence for YOUR claim is not enough to convince THEM to believe your position?

I think that's really what people are saying. At least, that's what I'm saying.

Also, logistically, probably, there is no God. I'm basing that not on the 'lack of evidence', but on the sheer size and scale of the universe and the amount of endless, mindless destruction within it; stars exploding every second causing unfathomable amounts of chaos and destruction. Why on Earth would a God create all that? It makes zero sense, if we're to believe in a God as portrayed within the bible or other religious books.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
However, again apparently, we decided to know good and evil and it all went to # from there.

Some people would prefer to be pig ignorant and happy, I guess.

I simply smile... as no words are needed. The cheeks get a bit painful after a few hours; much like a good hard laugh between friends does, in just a minute or so... where one silly look just starts it back all over again?

originally posted by: noonebutme
Or, are they saying YOUR lack of evidence for YOUR claim is not enough to convince THEM to believe your position?

I think that's really what people are saying. At least, that's what I'm saying.

There is no point to convince anyone who already closed their mind. We are not the prophet appointed by God to perform miracle and show you all the undisputable proof. Even if there is such proof, you already said it yourself, you are not going to be God's fellowship. So what's the point? You have the right to die forever. At least, you should not trouble yourself with God's causing bone cancer to children, because mutation happen on microorganism by chance or natural selection, and it's all part of evolution. God has nothing to do with evolution, right?

originally posted by: noonebutme
Also, logistically, probably, there is no God. I'm basing that not on the 'lack of evidence', but on the sheer size and scale of the universe and the amount of endless, mindless destruction within it; stars exploding every second causing unfathomable amounts of chaos and destruction. Why on Earth would a God create all that? It makes zero sense, if we're to believe in a God as portrayed within the bible or other religious books.

A God? Since when do you believe in Monotheism? Come on noonebutme. Make up your mind. Is it singular god or plural gods? Polytheists have no problem accepting "good" gods, as well "evil" gods. If you hate evil gods, then you can always pick the good gods. It does not negate the evil gods to cease causing chaos, tho. Lol. Chaos and Order is natural phenomenon to polytheistic.

Nevertheless, there are still valid reasons why A GOD cause "chaos" everywhere in the universe. One of the reason is energy. Energy is needed everywhere. To provide energy, you need source. Energy doesn't exist from nothing. What is the source of energy? Old stars. We have abundant old stars, rich with material and gas needed to birth new stars. Therefore, old stars need to explode every seconds, so young ones could thrive and eliminate the problem with over radiation in space or "overpopulation". It's the same with life. If no one dies, then how do we populate space? Not to mentioned, a lot of needless problem could rise and cause more chaos.

Didn't science already answer all this things?

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego
Is 50/50.

Is there a possibility for God to exist? Yes.
Is there a possibility for God not exist? Yes.
Is there a probability for God to exist? Yes
Is there a probability for God not exist? Yes.

We literally just had this convo a couple of pages ago. We calculate probability by collecting as much evidence that supports such a claim, evaluating that evidence, and then coming to a conclusion.

So first, we need to look at this evidence. What? There is none? Well then that clearly puts the probability close to zero. Unless you have some evidence that no one else has seen yet?

Based on what you just typed. The evidence is zero for both. Still 50/50.

Sorry, but that is not how that works. For instance, there is no evidence that supports the existence of dragons. Would you say the probability for them existing is 50/50? I can find stories about them in books.

How do you explain the fact that you know about them? Someone saw something and call it dragon. Just because you don't see it does not mean it did not exist.

Again, you are missing the point. Bring together all of the evidence for the existence of magical fire breathing dragons, and we’ll have a big bowl of nothing to evaluate. We’ll put it next the the big empty barrel of evidence for god, and then we’ll see which one is more valid than the other.

Again, I'm not missing the point, is that you do not want to accept that the lack of evidence is not sufficient to disprove something.

The evidence we have about the existence of a god or gods is based on what the ancient civilizations wrote. That does not mean they are wrong. Again, they saw or experience something that we do not understand but they call it god(s).

Every civilization in the world, from ancient time to today have some set of beliefs about spiritual or extraordinary beings capable of doing things that we do not comprehend.

That is proof that they saw something, you may want to call it whatever you want: YHVH, Odin, Zeus, Jupiter, Shiva, Quetzacoatl, Ra, Baal, pick a name.

Another evidence is the many people witnessing miracles or been part of them (some maybe true others may not to be honest).
But still they saw and experience something.

Feel free to browse the net to find the testimonials. (Don't believe everything)

If you don't believe, I respect that.
Have a good night.

All those ancient writings prove, is that they wrote some things down. Some people believed a thing. That does nothing to prove that what they believed was valid. Do you believe everything that they wrote down? Or have you selectively chosen the little tidbits that you like, and disposed of the rest? How many homosexuals have you put to death? How often do you eat pork or shrimp? These are things that people believed. Why would you accept some of that stuff but you don’t accept others? We have come a long way since then haven’t we? We know better than they did. We know very well when they were embellishing stories. Because some of that # is impossible.

Cults and religions are still springing up today. Just look at how mormonism and scientology have taken hold of so many people. That is simply a newer version of every other god story. Except we can actually watch it happen in real time.

You mentioned plenty of gods in your post. How many of those do you believe in? Somebody wrote those stories down. But you don’t accept everything that every ancient person decided to write down. Why would you even pick and choose from all of the available stories? We have much better ways of determining whether some claim is valid than just picking what sounds cool from the writings of ancient rock carving cultures. They didn’t know how lightning and rain worked. Or even an inkling of germ theory. Astronomy, chemistry, metalurgy, electricity. We have their stories. We know what they thought about things, and they were wrong about 90% of it. But you think that they got the god part right.

Do you see where i’m coming from? This is not about whether i’m right or wrong, it’s about what makes logical sense.

For the record, i am open to these ancient writings being the testimony that they saw some incredible things. If anything the actual writings of the sumerians and the early hindu texts are full of unimaginable imagery that could point to some extaordinary events. But probably not gods in the sense of “creators of the universe and manipulators of reality”. But perhaps some crazy # that they just didn’t understand. Or more likely some very early fictional stories that got blown way out of proportion or that were just accepted as literal stories at some point and were just cherished early fiction.

One thing i do know is that it is pretty easy to trick humans into thinking pretty much anything. Naivety and gullibleness are pretty rampant everywhere you look. In fact, it is probably easier to trick some people than it is to get them to accept the truth. That’s something to think about.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

I purposely didn’t ready any replies to your post just yet.

It depends on the definition of “God”. If you mean all knowing all powerful omnipresent omnipotent then...

I would worship the god if that is what it demanded. If it did not demand that I worship it then I would not worship it.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Going back to the OP question, if an all knowing god was shown to be proven then why would I even bother pretending to worship it? It would surely already know I thought it was a barbaric monster. Pretty crap god if it needed me to tell it.
"Yeah, carry on eating your popcorn mate while you watch children starve to death, prick"

Lol
Well apparently there was a time when we existed in paradise.
All the food we could eat (apart from the fruit from that one tree over there).
We didn't even need clothes the weather was that nice.

However, again apparently, we decided to know good and evil and it all went to # from there.
Adam suddenly thought his ding ding was too small, Eve wasn't happy with the size of her hips. God wasn't happy about this either.
There was a lot of blame shifting, "oooo the serpent tricked me, ooooo the women talked me into it" instead of someone just taking responsibility for their own # up.
As a result, the serpent's got no legs, Eve needs pethidine when squeezing one out and we gotta toil the land for food!


Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I started questioning God about starving children I'd imagine his response would be something like:
"WTF you on about? I had it all set up nice. You wanted something else so I let you have at it. Left you to it. Now tell me, what did you personally, and you as humanity as a whole do about those starving children?"

We can't have it both ways can we?
Or can we?



DISCLAIMER: Not a belief. Just a train of thought

That’s not a train of thought, you just wrote down genesis and claimed that’s your opinion. You are literally trying to pass off genesis as an original thought that you just had. That is true indoctrination. Congratulations!! You are fully assimilated into the hive.

originally posted by: anotherside
My hypothetical God is yahweh. A true understanding father of ages and written word.

Im a christian with a former hebrew x girlfriend. Peace through wisdom all.

How literally do you take the stories of yahweh?