The Hill - Obama Education secretary: Pull children out of schools until gun laws change

So, I don't post much, mostly just read. This one pissed me off. When did we lose the precept "get back on the horse"?

The Hill - Obama Education secretary...

Former Education Secretary Arne Duncan said Friday that it was "tragically necessary" for parents to pull their children out of school en masse until U.S. gun laws are changed. In a tweet, the former Obama administration official asked what would happen if no children went to school until "gun laws changed to keep them safe."

Okay. What is the gun law you are proposing, Mr. Duncan? A sensible one, I suppose, like Japan's? Where registered gun owners are subject to inspection to ensure proper storage? Well, that just won't do, because what about those possessing unregistered firearms, those committing the VAST majority of gun crime? Guess we'll just have to search EVERYONE's house?

"My family is all in if we can do this at scale. Parents, will you please join us?" he asked.

Great. Summer break is days away. Boycott away, they're not learning anything in the last few weeks of school anyway. So, your solution to school shootings is to stop having school, Mr. former Secretary of Education. I feel like you may have tipped your hand a little there.

Folks, obviously we can't stop educating children. Are there actually "sensible" measures that could be taken to reduce or eliminate school shootings? Preferably ones that don't violate multiple constitutional rights? I'm all ears. They're awful events, and they do seem to be getting more frequent, BUT I don't believe stripping away rights is the solution.

I've been in the military, and I know what it's like to work a gate. You get these sheets called BOLOs(Be On the LookOut) that show faces and describe why they're BOLO'd, but they're almost impossible to commit to memory. The only thing that helped me and my soldiers was time spent knowing the people coming in and out. I think that's why that Illinois resource officer(forgive me if I've got the terminology wrong) knew that kid was a threat: he knew he didn't belong there, and may have hostile intent.

I know this is a crazy idea, but what if school custodians were charged with protecting the property AND the kids learning there? They're in the mix, they overhear conversation. What if we allowed custodians to take ACTUAL custody of the property and the kids learning there? I know it would cost more money to train them to be armed, background checks, etc... for a job that is mostly emptying trash bins and scraping gum off the floor. Could be problematic. But maybe, just maybe, having those eyes and ears, and awareness of who belongs and who does not, could make the difference. I offer this idea because I know it's unwise to give criticism without offering a possible solution.

Ultimately, though, I think that Mr. Duncan's comments are outrageous. You don't let the horse win by giving up. You get back on the horse and teach it that you're in charge. I can't believe that the former highest Educator in the land would make such a statement. Thanks for reading.

I don't have any children but I can see her point as a parent. She has to do what she feels is right for her children. I can't imagine sending my children to school, knowing that there was a chance they wouldn't come home.

Schools should be locked up. A passcard system of some kind might be an answer. We use them in the building where I work & nobody can get in without a card. Other measures are in place as well to stop outsiders wondering in.

Honestly though I am stumped how America can stop these types of incident happening. I do know that SOMETHING has to change though.

a reply to: rhynouk

His, but I take your point. Thanks for your thoughts!

A card swipe system would be good, though at least for now automation can't supplant human eyes on, eyes attached to a brain that also listen and follow instinct. I think empowering the people already in custody of our children while we're away is a reasonable answer.

a reply to: Zelun

What is the gun law you are proposing, Mr. Duncan?

That's the million dollar question. Lots of demands out there for "something" to be done... for "sensible" reform... lots of weasel words and virtue signalling, but nothing concrete. Just symbolism over substance. No one has offered up anything tangible solutions to consider and discuss and debate.

No one even wants to take a good hard close look at everything that has been done and went so very very wrong that these shootings still happen.

No one wants to stop the bullying that always seems to precede these kids going over the edge.

No one wants to stop the psychoactive drugs fed to our kids causing suicidal and homicidal ideation.

No one wants to address the lead and endocrine-disrupters and other pollutants in our air, water, soil, food, etc., that effect everyone's mental and emotional stability.

Personally, if I still had kids of school age, I would have pulled them out already for home-schooling. I'm sure more parents would do the same if it were an option... I wish it were an option for more parents. I'd also like to see more online classes for kids, rather than shuffling kids like cattle in ever growing bricks-and-mortars.

Our problems are much bigger than an inanimate object. We cannot remove guns from the world -- and we can't prevent more guns from being built. Nor can we stop folks from killing other people with bombs, knives, arson, or trucks driving on sidewalks.

Bottom line: the empty calls for gun control are a Trojan Horse. We have no idea what's really "inside" these gun control measures, and it doesn't in any way address the root causes of the violence.

This from Bodicea:

No one even wants to take a good hard close look at everything that has been done and went so very very wrong that these shootings still happen. No one wants to stop the bullying that always seems to precede these kids going over the edge. No one wants to stop the psychoactive drugs fed to our kids causing suicidal and homicidal ideation. No one wants to address the lead and endocrine-disrupters and other pollutants in our air, water, soil, food, etc., that effect everyone's mental and emotional stability.

No, no one wants to talk about the core issue, which is what is society mirroring for these kids about the value of human and all life? They are teenagers so depressed they want to die and take as many with them as they can. That's way more horrifying than any weapons debate and no one is touching it.

This is the real issue. IMHO, this isn't a platform anymore for discussing gun control. Are stricter gun laws gonna stop pipe bombs, co2 devices, even knives, perhaps, or vehicles used as weapons on crowded streets? Should we have a vehicle control discussion now, then??
regards and important issues you are raising, OP,
tetra

a reply to: Boadicea

Personally, if I still had kids of school age, I would have pulled them out already for home-schooling. I'm sure more parents would do the same if it were an option... I wish it were an option for more parents. I'd also like to see more online classes for kids, rather than shuffling kids like cattle in ever growing bricks-and-mortars.

What an awesome paragraph. Thank you for your thoughts. Already there are many online higher-learning institutions, regionally accredited. Then again, isn't part of elementary, junior high, and high school learning how to be social creatures? Meeting girls/guys? If we restrict our kids to online learning, how to we socialize them? I think it's a great suggestion, and I do think that individually-paced education is the best way to educate, and why not do it with computers? Thanks again for your thoughtful post, and I look forward to your reply!

a reply to: Zelun

Zelun: Perhaps you are aware that there are home schooling groups in communities where they get their kids together to spend time, so to get the socialization aspect involved, as well......
all good points and questions. Perhaps more should consider this option, just to keep their kids safe...
tetra

a reply to: Zelun

Sorry to butt in, you socialise the kids through sports and other recreational activities, the ancient Greeks used to use half of the school day for exercise, boys especially are high energy and need to use that energy up. So I would adopt a similar strategy, half the day academic and the other half doing social sports..

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Sorry to butt in

LOL not at all! This is a forum! I think the Greeks would approve I'm really happy to receive your comments!

Yeah, municipal sports was a big part of my life when I was a kid, though I went to public school. I hadn't thought that registration is open to the whole municipality. What about romantic entanglements? That's an important lesson to learn how to deal with. Community socials, that sort of thing?

a reply to: tetra50

Sure, I'm open to the idea of completely revamping our education system. Does a former administrator of the status quo educational system have a leg to stand on saying to abandon it? I don't know. Maybe he's right, and during his tenure he wanted to say it, but couldn't because he was the GD Secretary of Education of the USA. I'm open to that possibility. I give it 70:30 in favor of a political statement, based on the timing of summer break. A statement of non confidence at a time of non-consequence. That said, I'm really happy that there are grassroots orgs springing up offering alternate education opportunities, to include the socialization that is so important for young creatures of every species. Appreciate your thoughts, friend.

a reply to: Zelun

Tell you what I wish I was taught about romantic entanglements, I learned the hard way.

Done right one could cover all sorts of social issues ,I wish I had the resources to do it myself I have an 8 year old boy I'm raising...

a reply to: Zelun

Already there are many online higher-learning institutions, regionally accredited. Then again, isn't part of elementary, junior high, and high school learning how to be social creatures? Meeting girls/guys? If we restrict our kids to online learning, how to we socialize them?

Socialization skills are definitely important! And schools can be an important part of it; but at the same time, our schools sure don't seem to be doing a very good job of it right now. Especially when we not only have kids bullying other kids (like at Parkland) and teachers turning a blind eye... or worse, like in the most recent instance, when the TEACHERS are bullying the kids. In many ways, I think these huge schools have contributed to a lack of social skills. Too many kids and not enough adults to monitor their social interactions, even if they were so inclined. For too many kids, school is all about survival. Perhaps we need to give our kids more opportunities for social interaction anyway... more friends from different walks of life... more interests/hobbies to pursue with others.

Thinking off the top of my head, I think we could create such opportunities. Our city's parks & rec dept offers all kinds of free and low cost classes for all kinds of things -- from arts and jewelry making to sports and swim classes to computer classes -- for every age. My kids made friends at T-ball and tumbling and dance classes. For many kids, they can make friends at Sunday School/Church. No parent ever said, "I want my kid to be a friendless loser," and I think if we understood the importance of parenting and providing such opportunities, people would make it happen.

I think it's a great suggestion, and I do think that individually-paced education is the best way to educate, and why not do it with computers? Thanks again for your thoughtful post, and I look forward to your reply!

I think individually paced education could benefit many students -- especially those at one extreme or another -- and computers make it quite possible. Where appropriate, kids could do the bulk of their work online, and maybe one or two days a week come in to school for testing, labs, extra tutoring, etc. I would think it wouldn't be too hard to set up "conference classes" so to speak either, if it were practical and beneficial. For middle and high school students, we need to bring back shop classes and work credits (where kids can work a real job for a couple hours an afternoon and receive school credits). Our kids desperately need some real life skills education these days.

With our technology and ingenuity, we could make it happen. We just need to re-focus and reform.

Olaease do, then American can get ride of the department of education, if the kids are already at home, the government can start a new way of education that doesn’t envilive liberal indicinatiin


On a side note, if America listened to everything parkland kids wanted, this last shooting would still have happened. So, what The real goal

Schools shoild be smaller

More teachers are needed

Teachers need traiming and accountability for social behavior (my son is a teacher and half his job is navigating the petty whining amd manipulations of coworkers, often with the teachers being the cause of student misbehavior)

Why doesnt every classroom have a Barricuda lock already?!?!?

Kids who drop extracurriculars....why do coaches bully them? Why arent we drawing them into alternatives to keep them engaged with their peers?

If all the schools were closed, there would be other targets that the CIA would choose for their MK Ultra/ Monarch program zombies to perform false flag attacks.
Churches, concerts, movie theaters and such. What, they have already been targeted?
Yes.
It is just that schools are full of children, think of the children. Such a choice target to use for pulling heartstrings.

originally posted by: butcherguy
If all the schools were closed, there would be other targets that the CIA would choose for their MK Ultra/ Monarch program zombies to perform false flag attacks.
Churches, concerts, movie theaters and such. What, they have already been targeted?
Yes.
It is just that schools are full of children, think of the children. Such a choice target to use for pulling heartstrings.

Nailed it...

“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”
― Adolf Hitler

What is this former education secretary Arne Duncan implying here?

His idea seems to suggest that the education system is the problem, yet he proposes to break the law by holding the system hostage in order to instigate gun control. It seems to be sending a mixed message but is ultimately about forcing the government to go after the guns rather than the underlying problems. Obviously he is unconcerned with education and pushing a gun control agenda at the expense of the students and society at large. Thank goodness he is the former education secretary.

Well, in this last shooting, the kid who shot the others went through the mandatory training practice and knew where people he wanted to off would be. Nothing like training the offender how to beat the system.

From one article I read, the kid was being bullied by some students and faculty and he tried to target them. The kid said he did not want to hurt kids that were treating him decently. Maybe we should address something we should have addressed years ago in our schools, stopping the students and athletic people from messing with the kids. I remember how it was, I had poor feet and was made fun of because I could not run in gym. Those stupid arch supports made things worse. I walked miles hiking through the woods with hiking boots all the time but could not run. I eventually got a doctors report because of other problems, I guess the bad ankles and flat feet were just a sign that maybe I should not run. I probably would have had a heart episode if they had kept me in gym. So, I learned to learn exceptionally well since I could not run like an animal does. We have a messed up society, since I can not run from a bear or wolf pack in the woods, I can carry a gun when picking berries. I highly doubt if a person can outrun a bear or wolf pack anyway. We cannot run forty miles per hour.

But, I never went out and shot anyone and I actually owned my own shotgun and rifle when I was thirteen, most kids were not allowed to own guns at that age, they did not prove themselves responsible enough with them.

That's like saying pull them out of school because their parents are each going to hit the Powerball lottery. Same odds!

Obama's education secretary is out of office. Don't these people know they lost?