Investigating the "Lost 4th Pyramid" at Giza

Several years ago information came forward about the 4th 'Black' Pyramid at Giza, which is considered "Lost" because it is no longer present and was allegedly dismantled sometime around the 1700s to 1800s and it's stones used for other constructions.

This thread written here on ATS presents the claim but does not investigate it for further corroboration or attempt to debunk it.

However I want to know more, and I want to know if there was really a 4th Pyramid at Giza that was destroyed. It is such a fantastic claim and if it were true than it would have significant implications about our understanding of the Pyramids in general and about the astronomy of the ancients, among other things.

First I will give a little background information so that you will be up to speed:

I. The Lost Black Pyramid
The only actual source of this claim is a small snippet from the book "Voyage d'Egypte et de Nubie" (1755), by Frederic Norden (1708-1742), which was published after his death.

Specifically of relevance is this particular description he gave of the mystery pyramid:

It is without coating, closed and resembles the others, but without any temple like the first. It has however one particular deserving remark; which is, that its summit is terminated by a single great stone, which seems to have served as a pedestal…the fourth pyramid has been made, upwards above the middle, of a stone more black than the common granite, and at least as hard. Its summit is of a yellowish stone. I shall speak elsewhere of its top, which terminates in a cube. It is, moreover, situated out of the line of the others, being more to the west…it makes a series with the three others

Then, with this foundation, the theory is applied to everything else and any illustrations or paintings of 4 pyramids are to be viewed as this “Lost Pyramid”, and the idea that it ‘might be’ the largest of the Queen’s Pyramids of Menkaure is ignored.

II. This “Lost Pyramid” does not fit into the “Orion Hypothesis”.

As many of you already know, the Pyramid complex aligns with the constellation Orion, and the Pyramids themselves with it’s “Belt” stars. There is plenty of information about this to research.

Not only that, but many Pyramid complexes around the world also fit the angles of Orion very well. Here is an example photograph. Notice the third smaller one is off center and at an angle from the second one:


So in fact, the “Lost Pyramid” hypothesis does not fit into the Orion theory and it goes completely against it. It would not make sense to have a fourth pyramid when all of these other locations (China, Mexico) are in complete agreement with the Giza complex, yet they do not have a fourth structure in the area we are supposing one may have been.

In fact the Saqqara complex even aligns with the Pleiades and with the Giza complex mirroring the constellations in the sky very closely in respect to each other.


III. Misinterpretation and poor sources.

It is common that people misinterpret things written especially after those writings have been translated through various languages, much can be lost in that process.

The stone was darker than “common granite”, but that does not mean it was black. The stone was “at least as hard”, which is somewhat ambiguous because it could have been only a slightly different grain of the same type of stone.

Also notice that none of these illustrations agree with each other perfectly and there are many discrepancies.
All of these illustrations are very dated:





That last one even shows a Pyramid right across the river? That’s odd.

IV. No Other Evidence At All

I cannot find any other evidence to support the claim of this lost pyramid at all. Not even photographs of stones laying about or anything. There seems to be nothing to find... if anyone knows of more evidence please share!

V. Conclusion

After looking into this matter very deeply and doing a lot of research, I am convinced that the most likely situation is that this is a case of misinterpretation and poor information, and that the “Black Pyramid” is in fact the larger Queen’s satellite Pyramid of Menkaure, which is actually slightly darker than the others if in the correctly lit conditions.

I created this graphic to explain why the Line of Sight would have blocked Norden’s suggested location and made the common drawings not in agreement with it, and that actually what is lined up perfectly is the Queen’s Pyramid. The size ratios and distance ratios appear to match up very well with all of these historic illustrations give or take some room for error.




This photo shows the "Lost 4th Pryamid" as it is today:


I rate it as extremely unlikely to exist. I believe it was the Queen's Pyramid.

Here is a video discussing this a little more:


Here are links for sources where I got pictures and more information:
Graham Hancock

Freeman Institute

Forbidden History

This is a perfect example, in my opinion, of how easily misinformation can spread across the Net and how it is accepted widely without much question or investigation.

Few people are willing to dig around much or apply critical questioning to a claim.

Though I am not 100% sure because I simply was not there to know first-hand, I am confident and believe all evidence Strongly suggests the 4th Pyramid stands today as the larger of Mankaure's Queens.

It is pretty obvious when you take all things into consideration.

Hope everyone enjoyed the research!

If you disagree please tell me why, I'd love to know your thoughts on this.

No comments?

Look I wanted to believe in it too but it just doesn't add up. We need more evidence to buy into stuff like this.

And besides, the astronomical alignment theory is crucial to figuring out ancient history.

If this extra pyramid existed it would throw everything into the blender and all our good theories wouldn't make any sense anymore.

It's so out of place and lacking in evidence that it's safe to presume this is all misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

Look I know it sucks that it got debunked but we need at least a little skepticism.

Being a big "fan" of egypt both the desert and the reefs, I found your thread very interesting.

I don´t know if it´s still possible today but if anyone visits egypt, try to get a tour inside the Great Pyramid of Giza. Don´t listen to the explanations of the tour-guide, just watch & observe. It´s a very special feeling being inside.

Can´t describe it.

S&F

They tried to demolish the Pyramid of Menkaure in the 12th century (which is hardly bigger than the mythological Black Pyramid).

They spent 8 months on it and how far did they get?



Barly a gash.

And this is all well documented.

Yet I'm to believe a slightly smaller structure was dismanted 500 years later in recent history with pretty much no documentation at all?

I bet they did take some stones off the Queens Pyramids (judging by their current dilapidated appearances), but they didn't get very far.

It's an insane proposal to dismantle one of these things if you think about it.

Menkaure Demolition

At the end of the twelfth century al-Malek al-Aziz Othman ben Yusuf, Saladin's son and heir, attempted to demolish the pyramids, starting with Menkaure's. The workmen whom Al-Aziz had recruited to demolish the pyramid stayed at their job for eight months, but found it almost as expensive to destroy as to build. They could only remove one or two stones each day.

Due to such conditions, they could only damage the pyramid by leaving a large vertical gash in its north face.

a reply to: verschickter

Thank you, I definitely will try to get inside the Great Pyramid one day!!

One of my goals actually, heheh.

There's a picture of a pyramid capstone here. Not sure which pyramid it was from:

i.imgur.com...

It really looks like a prop out of a sci-fi series.

This is a great comment:

"Don't forget, this wasn't "Asim's Bargain Capstones", this was the literal crowning achievement of a mason so expert that [s]he was chosen to send a demigod to eternity."

www.reddit.com...

Looking at that map above, if there were a missing pyramid, it would have been that centre star near the top
of the picture:

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Bonus Trivia:

Did you know that the 3 Pyramids of downtown Philadelphia Pennsylvania are made to mimic the Pyramids at Giza??

If you check on Google maps you'll see that they mirror Orion's Belt too! The third one is off center by the same degrees angle!

Cool huh??

I would think logically it would be in sequence with the star locations the Pyramids copy. The illustration two up from the video with the green reference. Agreeing with your "V. Conclusion". That seems the place to look.

"The only actual source of this claim is a small snippet from the book "Voyage d'Egypte et de Nubie" (1755), by Frederic Norden (1708-1742), which was published after his death".


That is 250 years, a long time for legends to arise. What was the motive for Frederic's book, ?.. Funding for more exploration ? Many variables ? Indeed, I had never heard of this Black Pyramid.

a reply to: stormcell

That is Ben Ben, the pyramidion-capstone from the Pyramid of Amenemhet II at Hawara (or was it the III?).

never knew a pyramid cap was found .
To bad the pyramids are in such bad shape I can only imange what they looked like new .
And yes they are fascinating . No aliens needed for that no magical form of building needed they are magic all by them self .

just thinking loudly, and im no expert in this, any significant star in that constellation would be either Betelgeuse,Rigel or Sirius, but all of them are so far away in different directions but then again why build something like that so far away

a reply to: muzzleflash

Cool huh??

Not really pyramids and not Orion's belt. Angle is off and so are the relative distances.

a reply to: Phage

Lmfao.

Hey thanks for actually measuring that.

It's as close as they could get it due to the street plans and issues with what available lot they could use.

They (the ppl there) actually call them pyramids though!

And Google "Pyramid Club Philadelphia" to book events or for fine dining.

Then invite me so I can come.

a reply to: Phage

I admit I just eyed it when I looked on Google maps, and although 8 vs 15 degrees might not seem like much I probably ought to have noticed because I do have good spatial skills.

I was in a super big hurry though cuz I wanted to post this today and didn't want to wait till Monday.

a reply to: Phage

Oh and because I think you'll like it check this out::

Archaeoastronomical Study of the Main Pyramids of Giza, Egypt: Possible Correlations with the Stars?
Vincenzo Orofino, Paolo Bernardini

a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't find anything preposterous about the notion that the layout of the pyramids was meant to mimic Orion's belt. It is, after all, one of the most eye catching asterisms in the sky.

Beyond that the significance escapes me.

I found this meager information on Crystalinks.

www.crystalinks.com... likely not even the right one. Info seems scarce alright.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I did not know this.

Could be total BS but it sounds/looks pretty cool. I will enjoy spreading the information.

Then I will add to it because I cannot help myself. Did you know they modeled Lake Erie to match exactly the canals around Atlantis? The Knights Templar engineered it after they built Angkor Wat. It's a sickness I guess

a reply to: Phage

Have you watched this yet:
Revelation of the Pyramids

Please give it a chance it's interesting.