Masons in Missouri

Originally posted by akilles
You are a pathetic moderator, and not even an honest one.

You dissing me?




Dissing my honesty really hurt! NEXT

Think about the site, not about yourself.

How do you think we (Masons) were going to make money in your former town? Do you really think we need the money? If we are as powerful as you think we are, shouldn't we have all the money we need?

They were from the Yellowknife Lodge, ask them yourself.

I don't have any misconceptions about them using Freemasonry's resources other than its membership, so I don't see the need for your delusion.

Their intentions are really quite transparent in this case. The Natives in the area get massive government benefits if they partner any company with a non-Native, some minor restrictions apply, but it is the perfect opportunity to give some locals the 'easy sell'.

Buy some Real Estate, buy some Row houses, whatever, because you know another Freemason will be starting a work camp there in a year, and there you go, you control the rental property and contract for that camp.

Are you going to chastise me for not doing it myself now?

Originally posted by akilles
They were from the Yellowknife Lodge, ask them yourself.

I don't have any misconceptions about them using Freemasonry's resources other than its membership, so I don't see the need for your delusion.

Their intentions are really quite transparent in this case. The Natives in the area get massive government benefits if they partner any company with a non-Native, some minor restrictions apply, but it is the perfect opportunity to give some locals the 'easy sell'.

Buy some Real Estate, buy some Row houses, whatever, because you know another Freemason will be starting a work camp there in a year, and there you go, you control the rental property and contract for that camp.

Are you going to chastise me for not doing it myself now?

Do you just make stuff up as you go, or do you have to think about this stuff for a few hours first!?!?

Are you asking how long it takes them to plan this kind of thing?

My town is going to have a boom, but right now its "50/50" so people are not investing their money, locals, that is. Its not that hard to understand, there is a a lot of natural resources in the region, and there is no other airport that far north that can land up to 747s all year round.

Are you saying I am making up the mineral wealth of the Northwest Territories?

Its not very suprising.

I live in Kansas City and have seen many cars and things with the masonic symbol all over them. I dont really know much about FreeMasons, but I bet you could find a masonic lodge in about every state. Dunno for sure though.

-J

Originally posted by theshadowknows
Its not very suprising.

I live in Kansas City and have seen many cars and things with the masonic symbol all over them. I dont really know much about FreeMasons, but I bet you could find a masonic lodge in about every state. Dunno for sure though.

-J

Try almost every town. The Masons get a bad rap nowadays. In the old days, they were respected, admired; pillars of the community. Now there are so many internet conspiracy retards slandering them and making wild accusations, people start to buy into it, because there just aren't that many Masons that will stand up and say that they are wrong. Most just do as the Masons have always done, and let the profane world go by and believe what they will. In the past it has worked. With the internet though, that is not turning out to be a very good policy in my eyes, because the lack of defense, to some, equates to guilt. Hell, even when good Masons do stand up for their fraternity they are labeled liars and joiners and accused of being weak minded or duped or some other such crap. It sickens me.

The Masons on this board are good men to the last one, and I am proud to call them my friends.


[edit on 2/24/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by theshadowknows
Its not very suprising.

I live in Kansas City and have seen many cars and things with the masonic symbol all over them. I dont really know much about FreeMasons, but I bet you could find a masonic lodge in about every state. Dunno for sure though.

-J

Do a web-search sometime. You can find a GRAND Lodge (the governing body of the jurisdiction) in every state. Lodges...you can find in MANY towns and cities. In larger cities, SEVERAL Lodges. At one time, just about every town had one. We're no secret.

Regards

Originally posted by The Axeman
...let the profane world go by and believe what they will. In the past it has worked. With the internet though, that is not turning out to be a very good policy in my eyes...

Prior to completing my EA I would have agreed with your position, however after completing my EA and even more so after completing my FC, ignoring the critics of Masonry seems like the best way to go in my view. Engaging these misguided persons causes their position to spawn page after page of dialog givong them a far greater voice.
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Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by The Axeman
...let the profane world go by and believe what they will. In the past it has worked. With the internet though, that is not turning out to be a very good policy in my eyes...

Prior to completing my EA I would have agreed with your position, however after completing my EA and even more so after completing my FC, ignoring the critics of Masonry seems like the best way to go in my view. Engaging these misguided persons causes their position to spawn page after page of dialog givong them a far greater voice.
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df1: I would have to agree with Axeman. While I appreciate privacy and secretivity as much as the next mason, it's not the best policy in th information age. Unfortunately, people who do not know any better tend to believe what these antis say about the craft, and they have not the mind to do research and make a judgement of their own. In other words, they tend to believe the first thing they read. People trust what they see on the internet, especially when presented as fact.

Not fighting back against our critics is what has gotten us to where we are, but now that ANYONE can put up a website and say what they wanna say, we need to start making sure people know that these guys are full of it.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
...ANYONE can put up a website and say what they wanna say...

I am not suggesting silence. Masonsry should express its position by putting up more websites expressing Masonic views. Entering into debates with children claiming to be anti-Masons on message boards dimishes the Masonic message and gives undeserved exposure and credibility to anti-Masons, while diminishing the Masonic message.

IMHO the only Mason that has consistently elevated Masory with his dialog on ATS is "Masonic Light". The rest of us have diminished Masonry with our ATS dialog more often than not, with several brethren even being banned from ATS.

Those that wish to find the truth will find it. Those that do not wish to find the truth will not, regardless of what any Mason may say to them in response to the the inaccuracies they post. I came to Masonry via the anti-Mason websites in spite of the falsehoods spread on these websites. Others have also and will continue to do so.
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Originally posted by df1
I am not suggesting silence. Masonsry should express its position by putting up more websites expressing Masonic views. Entering into debates with children claiming to be anti-Masons on message boards dimishes the Masonic message and gives undeserved exposure and credibility to anti-Masons, while diminishing the Masonic message.

OK, I'll agree with that, we should pick our battles carefully.

IMHO the only Mason that has consistently elevated Masory with his dialog on ATS is "Masonic Light". The rest of us have diminished Masonry with our ATS dialog more often than not, with several brethren even being banned from ATS.

I don't know about any masons being banned from here, I haven't been around that long. But I do not agree with you, many masons on this forum offer informative, intelligent and mature posts. ML certainly does, Leveller has great insight into many aspects of our fraternity as well, Senrak is certainly knowledgeable and his posts are always a good read, and there's a couple more who's names I forgot (but I won't go search the threads right now for them) but also maintain a very respectable attitude in their posts.

Those that wish to find the truth will find it. Those that do not wish to find the truth will not, regardless of what any Mason may say to them in response to the the inaccuracies they post. I came to Masonry via the anti-Mason websites in spite of the falsehoods spread on these websites. Others have also and will continue to do so.

That is very true, but my concern (and I believe the concern of most of us) isn't what the antis think... it's what OTHER people who read that antis' posts and buy into what they say that are my concern. Guys like Akilles and such are lost causes, we know that and we don't care. But if we have the chance, we SHOULD correct him in public threads so that other people will know he's full of it just as much as we do.

But you're right, our posts need to be more "masonic" than they have often been. Sometimes it's just out of anger that we post what we do, some of the things people say gets under your skin... but give it time, some of us are still young masons, we will yet learn to subdue our passions and improve ourselves

Originally posted by sebatwerk
many masons on this forum offer informative, intelligent and mature posts.

I could not agree more, however it takes just one post made in anger to tarnish the good will developed from all of the positive posts. And I think most of us have all to easily fallen victim to our emotions at one time or another.

it's what OTHER people... buy into... that are my concern...

It's not about all these "other people", it's about improving the individual. As I said I came to Masonry via the anti-Masons website. And I choose to place my trust in that there are many "other people" that will figure it out too.

While it is easier said than done, the greatest insult is to ignore.
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Originally posted by df1

it's what OTHER people... buy into... that are my concern...

It's not about all these "other people", it's about improving the individual. As I said I came to Masonry via the anti-Masons website. And I choose to place my trust in that there are many "other people" that will figure it out too.

While it is easier said than done, the greatest insult is to ignore.

What do you think about people who take silence as an admission of guilt? Do you think there are many? Is it possible that they already had their mind made up?

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by sebatwerk
...ANYONE can put up a website and say what they wanna say...

I am not suggesting silence. Masonsry should express its position by putting up more websites expressing Masonic views. Entering into debates with children claiming to be anti-Masons on message boards dimishes the Masonic message and gives undeserved exposure and credibility to anti-Masons, while diminishing the Masonic message.

Unfortunately in some cases this is all too true, but I feel like the point, as Sebatwerk said is not to change anyone's mind, it is merely to show the anti's and their tactics as what they are to those who might casually come through looking for info.

IMHO the only Mason that has consistently elevated Masory with his dialog on ATS is "Masonic Light". The rest of us have diminished Masonry with our ATS dialog more often than not, with several brethren even being banned from ATS.

Again, unfortunately, I agree with you here to some extent as well. ML is a shining gem for the Masons and he always has his best foot forward here and I personally hold ALOT of respect for him. The others that Sebatwerk mentioned have my respect as well, and I agree that at times we can say things and respond in ways that aren't the best things to say, but we are all human. The fact is that even with the occasional slip-ups (I've had my share, particularly lately), the pro-Masons on this board and even those who are neutral but offer rational and well thoght out opinions do alot to defend the Craft from those detractors and trolls (big difference) who spread lies and innuendo as fact.

Those that wish to find the truth will find it. Those that do not wish to find the truth will not, regardless of what any Mason may say to them in response to the the inaccuracies they post. I came to Masonry via the anti-Mason websites in spite of the falsehoods spread on these websites. Others have also and will continue to do so.
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I think you are right, and it was the same way with me.

Still, anything we can do to stop or at least expose the anti-Masonic movement for what it is will not be a wasted effort, IMO.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Unfortunately in some cases this is all too true, but I feel like the point, as Sebatwerk said is not to change anyone's mind, it is merely to show the anti's and their tactics as what they are to those who might casually come through looking for info.

What we must NOT do is stoop down to the trolls' level. We must always prsent conclusive evidence in our posts, never never just heresay and we must never make assumptions based solely on circumstance. We should not attack and accuse, but rather describe and present. And last, but not least, we must admit when we are wrong-- stand corrected as men. If we do these things that the trolls seem unable to do, we will always be better than them.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
What we must NOT do is stoop down to the trolls' level. We must always prsent conclusive evidence in our posts, never never just heresay and we must never make assumptions based solely on circumstance. We should not attack and accuse, but rather describe and present. And last, but not least, we must admit when we are wrong-- stand corrected as men. If we do these things that the trolls seem unable to do, we will always be better than them.

Well said. Agreed.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by sebatwerk
What we must NOT do is stoop down to the trolls' level. We must always prsent conclusive evidence in our posts, never never just heresay and we must never make assumptions based solely on circumstance. We should not attack and accuse, but rather describe and present. And last, but not least, we must admit when we are wrong-- stand corrected as men. If we do these things that the trolls seem unable to do, we will always be better than them.

Well said. Agreed.

But there's nothing wrong with sticking up a picture of a troll every once in a while!

Now, I heard Masons think for themselves.

So individually, who thinks I'm a lost cause?

I thought you guys made good men better?

Masons get to vote on everything, when's the last time you voted on a Landmark??? But Landmarks ensure we're equal (uh huh...), in your mind ony, strange Fellows.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by akilles]

Originally posted by akilles
Now, I heard Masons think for themselves.

So individually, who thinks I'm a lost cause?

I don't believe in "lost causes", but I do think you are very misguided and you need to get your paranoia under control. You seem to be inherently distrustful of everyone, and you make wild claims and tell outright lies to try to make your point. Then, when challenged, you usually change the subject or make some silly remark that has nothing at all to do with anything.

I thought you guys made good men better?

The catch there is that a man has to want to better himself first, it's not like you join Masonry and *poof* you're a better man, although from what I understand it can be a very profound experience and if nothing else helps to increase the drive within to be and do better in all aspects of life.

Masons get to vote on everything, when's the last time you voted on a Landmark??? But Landmarks ensure we're equal (uh huh...), in your mind ony, strange Fellows.

You just don't get it dude.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
But there's nothing wrong with sticking up a picture of a troll every once in a while!

We must:



[edit on 2/28/05 by The Axeman]