Making the case against Iran's government.

Let me say from the start that there are no 'angels' in this. All have sins.

My instinctive dislike of Iran fundamentalist Ayatollahs is directly connected to Israel. Specifically, Hamas, funding the PLO and even funding suicide bombers with cash for their surviving families.The various protest by Iran's young citizens was a factor, as well. It was solidified by Iranian training of insurgents and the IEDs supplied which killed a multitude of American servicemen during the Iraq war.

Slowly placing troops and material into Syria, all under the guise of being 'invited' by Assad. Assad and Syria being a near puppet state of Iran for decades. Iranian troops right on Israel's border in Jordan. Add in Lebanon and Yemen. Then the more recent moves by Iran in Latin America.

Pretty telling.

A few days back, my daughter brought a book back from a Dollar Store entitled "Gray Work". Authored by Jamie Smith. An Ex-CIA member. Ex V.P. of Blackwater and owner of a number of his own private 'security companies' of his own. The book pretty well covers the whole gambit. All the ME countries, the evolution of private service companies, very specific players from Iran who have been captured by these firms. Working for private Corporations.

Credibility. I give it a '3' out of '5', overall. It varies, though. For example, he paints himself as a completely loyal American, god fearing, and without sin. OK. Name me more than a hand-full that don't do similarly when writing a book. In that realm I give him a '1'. out of five. No one is that clean. He actually vilifies both Assad and Qaddafi as very long time, repressive dictators who killed and tortured their own people far, FAR more than the current media is even approaching. He has both seemingly worse than Saddam. In this I give him an uncertain '3' of '5' in credibility.

He names names throughout, from all the players in those nations. '4' out of '5' there. He comes across as a boots o the ground person with occasional forays into the political realm and his perspective reflects it.

That's a brief overview from a non-player's perspective. Simply put, the information in this book, with caveats, solidifies my belief that the Iranian regime must go.

The recent exposure of EU business dealings with Iran and the resulting 'squirming' on Trump's decision convinces me Europe already has their version of the TPP. It's called the 'EU'. My contempt of Europe, overall, has never been higher.

It is an enlightening read....for what it's worth. Iran is a far tougher nut to crack than NK. Cracking it seems inevitable. JMO, though.

a reply to: nwtrucker

my belief that the Iranian regime must go...

Cracking it seems inevitable. JMO, though.

That is for the people of Iran to decide.

It is not our place to choose what is best for a nation, it's people or the region in general.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: nwtrucker

my belief that the Iranian regime must go...

Cracking it seems inevitable. JMO, though.

That is for the people of Iran to decide.

It is not our place to choose what is best for a nation, it's people or the region in general.

I can think of many examples throughout history where that wasn't the case. Nations have similarities to individuals. Sometimes others have to step in and address individuals as well as nations.

Where to do so and where not to do so is the tough part. Iran has been doing exactly that for decades. Karma kicks in.

a reply to: introvert

That is for the people of Iran to decide.

well ive seen lots of riots all over Iran where people call death to Khamenei for the past couple of months and they were faced with force, so the people cant do more than that, so no, i dont believe that the people can decide.

a reply to: nwtrucker
a reply to: Dr UAE

Still, it is not our place.

originally posted by: [post=23399584]introvert
That is for the people of Iran to decide.

The Iranian people can't decide nothing, their state has been hijacked by nutjobs. That country needs freeing just like the Germans were when their state was hijacked by nutjobs.

In addition to which there can be no peace between Israel and the Palestinians while Iran supplies the people of Gaza south Lebanon with mind control propaganda, weapons and training. Iran needs taking out pure and simple if it does not stop meddling in affairs that quite simply are none of their business.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: nwtrucker
a reply to: Dr UAE

Still, it is not our place.

Perhaps not 'your' place.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: nwtrucker
a reply to: Dr UAE

Still, it is not our place.

i agree no one should and i dont like anybody interfering in another country, but my replay to you was about the people deciding

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: [post=23399584]introvert
That is for the people of Iran to decide.

Iran needs taking out pure and simple if it does not stop meddling in affairs that quite simply are none of their business.

Do you see the irony in what you just posted?

At least the hypocrisy is in the open.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: nwtrucker
a reply to: Dr UAE

Still, it is not our place.

Perhaps not 'your' place.

Unless you are Iranian, probably not your's either.

a reply to: introvert

That is for the people of Iran to decide. It is not our place to choose what is best for a nation, it's people or the region in general.

So is this a one off or is your new "official" stance?
(waits patiently to see introvert admonish all those not in the usa about laws in the usa)

a reply to: shooterbrody

So is this a one off or is your new "official" stance?

It is consistent with the way my views have been for some time.

(waits patiently to see introvert admonish all those not in the usa about laws in the usa)

I did not say anything about laws.

a reply to: introvert

I did not say anything about laws.

Fair enough
What specifically are "people of Iran" to decide if not laws?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: [post=23399584]introvert
That is for the people of Iran to decide.

Iran needs taking out pure and simple if it does not stop meddling in affairs that quite simply are none of their business.

Do you see the irony in what you just posted?

At least the hypocrisy is in the open.

Britain gave that land to Israel as a backhander for saving the war effort in WW1, we ruled that land prior and thus the result was the Balfour Declaration. Ever since UK and Israel have been allies even fighting alongside. What happens to that land will always be our business. Nothing to do with Iran.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: introvert

I did not say anything about laws.

Fair enough
What specifically are "people of Iran" to decide if not laws?

They get to create the government they want. The country they want.

If they do not like what they have, they will revolt, burn it down and rebuild it.

What should not happen is people from other countries sticking their noses where they do no belong and be so arrogant as to think they know what is best for people they know little to nothing about.

That is what started the issues in Iran and the middle east to begin with.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: [post=23399584]introvert
That is for the people of Iran to decide.

Iran needs taking out pure and simple if it does not stop meddling in affairs that quite simply are none of their business.

Do you see the irony in what you just posted?

At least the hypocrisy is in the open.

Britain gave that land to Israel as a backhander for saving the war effort in WW1, we ruled that land prior and thus the result was the Balfour Declaration. Ever since UK and Israel have been allies even fighting alongside. What happens to that land will always be our business. Nothing to do with Iran.

Ok. The irony and hypocrisy is still there.

Busy-bodies thinking they know what is best for places they know little about.

a reply to: introvert

What should not happen is people from other countries sticking their noses where they do no belong and be so arrogant as to think they know what is best for people they know little to nothing about.

I agree.

a reply to: introvert

Israel's a great place Economy is booming, great night life, great culture, centre of the Abrahamic faiths. Things get better there year by year while the peripheral states have gone down and that is all because of Iran. Only when Iran is taken out can the region recover, it's a fact that some naïve people just don't see clearly.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: nwtrucker

my belief that the Iranian regime must go...

Cracking it seems inevitable. JMO, though.

That is for the people of Iran to decide.

It is not our place to choose what is best for a nation, it's people or the region in general.

So, do we support the people of Iran if they protest and try to overthrow the regime? The youth of Iran don't seem to be in lock step with their government. There have been at least two major nationwide protests, the most recent in Late 2017 and early 2018 in Northern Iran that nobody has seemed to offer more than token support for and that Iran did a media blackout on. There were far larger and more widespread protests under the Obama Admin as well.

Sooner or later the Protests will succeed. Hopefully it can happen without the Whole Country of Iran getting destroyed and going down in flames.

To be honest, Iran is a textbook case for a velvet revolution against the theocracy there. We need to walk a tightrope to get the youth and people of Iran to overthrow their government when we have a long history of doing that in Iran. That being said, we need to support those protesters otherwise they will just end up rotting in Jails.

Once Iran Mullah's exported their violence by creating Hezbollah, it became more than an internal matter. As has been shown, it's a regional threat with activities in Syrian, Yemen, Iraq and Lebanon via Hezbollah.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: [post=23399584]introvert
That is for the people of Iran to decide.

Iran needs taking out pure and simple if it does not stop meddling in affairs that quite simply are none of their business.

Do you see the irony in what you just posted?

At least the hypocrisy is in the open.

Not irony, at all. Paralysis by analysis. no more.