The issue with atheism

originally posted by: EasternShadow
I'm not sure how to put it. The difference is I open the door to the possibility of other dimensional life ( soul ), while you shut yours.

I'm not against the idea of either of them. Or ghosts or ghoulies, etc. For me though, unless I have evidence, I don't believe in it.

If someone demonstrates it, I'll believe it. However, I also look at the probability of it. So far, no one has walked on water, no one has risen from the grave or done any of the 'miracles' that Jesus is attributed with. And, while it might seem petty, I still push the agenda that, if God exists, why does he allow children to be abused? Or let them get bone cancer?

Yes, people argue freewill, he loves us all, or bad people will be punished after death - but what none of that makes any logical sense in a situation where you have a father figure (God) and children (us normies) in a loving relationship.

I would never allow my child or *anyone's* child to be abused and if I knew they were, I'd end the life of the abuser. I think any human parent would.

So why does God allow it? Why doesn't he stop it? This is part of the argument I put forward to why there is no God. If God is meant to be all knowing, all loving - how could anyone allow that, when no sane human would? Are we therefore more moral, more ethical than God?

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

I didn't redefine anything. I posted the definition of faith from Merriam Webster's website. You just can't accept that you were wrong.

a reply to: noonebutme

Why do you believe in man's words?
Why do you believe God did such things? Because the scripture said so? The scripture says many things. Which sayings are you following? You know already there are lies, why can't you identify and separate them? Why do you allow yourself to be deceived? Jesus hate religion, Why do you follow the Pharisee ( Church )? You only have one teacher, why do you not trust your own teacher? If you believe in cause and effect, then why do you believe god intended this? If you don't believe in miracle, then why do you believe god did this? If you behave righteously, then why don't you believe you'll be rewarded? If you behave wickedly, then why don't you believe you'll be punished?

originally posted by: EasternShadow
If you don't believe in miracle, then why do you believe god did this?

I'm not saying he did it, I'm saying he allowed it to happen and did nothing.

He saw mankind struggling in caves for 100k years, fighting and arguing over food, etc. The, 2000 years ago decides to get involved with the whole Jesus thing. WHy then? Why not 80k years ago? 50k years ago? For all that time, God sat there, indifferent the plight of our species and did nothing.

If you behave righteously, then why don't you believe you'll be rewarded? If you behave wickedly, then why don't you believe you'll be punish?

Because there is nothing to suggest either exist. And if they did, the conditions to enter either/or are completely arbitrary. What happens to someone living on a desert island who has never heard of God or the 'rules' he imposes? WHat about people 5000 years ago living in tribes and killing children because it was a sacrifice to the God(s)? Are they in hell? If so why, when they believed what they were doing was right?

If they arent in hell for murdering children, because they never had the 'word' of God instilled in them - why do they get a free pass?

My point is, there is so much arbitrariness, so much illogical decision making in how it all works that it could only have ever come from man and not from some divine being.

If we, human beings, can come up with a court of law, societal morals that say " Don't kill children or abuse them and if you do we will f**k you up", and run and enforce them, and God cannot -- what good is he? You may argue about punishment in the 'afterlife' -- but why should children suffer only for someone to eventually pay in the afterlife?

No human would allow that to happen, yet a God does. It makes zero sense.

originally posted by: noonebutme
I'm not saying he did it, I'm saying he allowed it to happen and did nothing.

He saw mankind struggling in caves for 100k years, fighting and arguing over food, etc. The, 2000 years ago decides to get involved with the whole Jesus thing. WHy then? Why not 80k years ago? 50k years ago? For all that time, God sat there, indifferent the plight of our species and did nothing.

How do you know he did nothing? Supposedly, you are the creator. What will you do? Will you micromanage everything by giving everything to your creation? Will you allow them to sleep all day without learning how to farm, to herb, to hunt and find better way to find food? Will you allow your creation to take everything for granted not knowing to take care for themselves?

Or will you force them to work and appreciate their labor with abundant harvest and animals so that they can celebrate and be thankful? Will you allow your creation to take life for granted by slaughtering anything without guilt, or will you allow them to watch the suffering of their own cause so that they can learn it's wrong? You have given them the mind to think and the body to work with, why would you want to interrupt your own design?

Supposedly you are a father, will you allowed your children to be depended on you forever? Will you not teach your children how to walk step by step? Didn't he already inspired his prophets since Abraham, telling you not to murder, not to lies, to love each other etc?

originally posted by: noonebutme
Because there is nothing to suggest either exist. And if they did, the conditions to enter either/or are completely arbitrary. What happens to someone living on a desert island who has never heard of God or the 'rules' he imposes?

If no one ever heard of god, then how do ancient shaman summon their deities in the first place? To seek assurance ( such as protection, hope and love ) from something/someone else is human nature right from birth. You can observe this from baby behavior.

originally posted by: noonebutme
WHat about people 5000 years ago living in tribes and killing children because it was a sacrifice to the God(s)? Are they in hell? If so why, when they believed what they were doing was right? If they arent in hell for murdering children, because they never had the 'word' of God instilled in them - why do they get a free pass?

I can not speak what is not revealed to me by other gods will, specifically the Sun God and Death God. In ancient time it was believed that human sacrifice was to appease this various gods for their own reason. Abrahamic God asked for ritual animal blood in time of annual festival only to celebrate with his followers, specifically the Israelites. All I said with regard to other cultures human sacrifice is, their responsibility is their own doing with their own gods. Jesus would say, "forgive them for they do not know what are they doing."

Hell is byproduct of mixes various culture's belief and false propaganda by some people with agenda.

originally posted by: noonebutme
My point is, there is so much arbitrariness, so much illogical decision making in how it all works that it could only have ever come from man and not from some divine being.

If we, human beings, can come up with a court of law, societal morals that say " Don't kill children or abuse them and if you do we will f**k you up", and run and enforce them, and God cannot -- what good is he? You may argue about punishment in the 'afterlife' -- but why should children suffer only for someone to eventually pay in the afterlife?

No human would allow that to happen, yet a God does. It makes zero sense.

If you believe in polythesis, why do you think it's decisions of one God? If there is Odin the God of War, then why do you expect him to be merciful? If you believe there is Yama the Hindu God of Death, then why do expect him to be righteous or even care with human suffering? It pleases him, yet people still worship him. If you believe god doesn't exist then why do believe all this things?

There is a reason why God demanded monotheist. If people choose to be polytheists or atheist, then it make zero sense for you to apply all this conditon to a single God. Whether you worship, or choose not to worship, shape how you view life in general and it reflect your relationship with your own inner energy/karma/aura/spirit.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

and how was I wrong?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: peter vlar

Tell us what you do believe as an atheist?
Put something on the table or atheism is
for cowards.

Nothing but cowards mocking what
others believe.

I'm a believer because I have the guts to
to confront your narrow minded bigotry.

Or maybe I'm just stupid

Oh noz Burn the Bibles! They're evil!
How pathetic is that?

My belief, as an atheist, is that your claims have no evidence to back them up.

The thing that makes me an atheist, is that i don’t believe you when you say there is some higher power.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: peter vlar

Tell us what you do believe as an atheist?
Put something on the table or atheism is
for cowards.

Nothing but cowards mocking what
others believe.

I'm a believer because I have the guts to
to confront your narrow minded bigotry.

Or maybe I'm just stupid

Oh noz Burn the Bibles! They're evil!
How pathetic is that?

My belief, as an atheist, is that your claims have no evidence to back them up.

The thing that makes me an atheist, is that i don’t believe you when you say there is some higher power.

This is equal to say you don't believe because you don't know anything better. This is not what an atheist should be like, no difference between the people who said planes could not fly because they were heavier than air and your opinion.

There are lots of other reasons to be an atheist and all valid but this is not how it should be. You should not believe in science or anything because you should also not believe blindly that atoms exist if you can only see them on video or microscope and not have one in your hand and look at it with your own eyes, but that doesn't make any sense too

a reply to: Woodcarver

true

to have a higher power there needs to be a lower power

a reply to: Woodcarver

Wood, I don't give the first rats ass what
you don't believe. You can't live on this
planet without believing something about
your existence. Grow some and tell
everyone what that is?

Or do I have to try another word arrangement?

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Woodcarver

true

to have a higher power there needs to be a lower power

ty ser'yezno! lmao

Atheism is the belief that all life was randomly created by an incredible 'Miracle Goo', not God!

a reply to: turbonium1

no it is not, that's simple thinking, black or white

Things are more complex and not a miracle whatever, you think if god created everything it was also thought magical goo or magical words and that's it?

How do you think it actually happened, bad troll?

a reply to: turbonium1

true

it's what they call ignorance

ignorance is a knowledge differing from the truth

can be anything but now there seems to be a lot of adaption to a certain mainstream ignorance

a reply to: Elementalist

Hey
Elementalist: though you do nod to your creator in this way:

My creator is nameless and formless, though has gifted me with consciousness, self identity and an internal compass to guide from right and wrong.

Just saying this has EVERYTHING to do with why and how the rest of your post is even possible, and your acknowledgment that the above came from your Creator, verifies this. Seems a little conflicted to me, that's all.
regards,
tetra

originally posted by: Elementalist
Worship is a strong word, and in my mind, a word of a slave or servant.

I have come across very interesting articles. There are secular religions such as Scientology and NXIVM. NXIVM does not teach God, but it does coercive it's female recruits into sex slaves and indoctrination through their DOS affiliated pyramid scheme. The top of the pyramid scheme is Keith Raneire, also known as the Vanguard, while all females below him are called slaves.

It baffles me how naive people can be. Still it's tempting idea to have a harem full with beautiful Hollywood's chicks. Lol.

There you go. There's no need for supreme being/God for atheist. They would rather worship elite society and corporate's Lucifer, even without any evidence to their claims.

May god bless all this innocent women.
Vancouver actress blindfolded and branded as part of alleged sex cult ceremony: reports

Alli son Mack: New details about Smallville actor's alleged involvement with sex cult revealed

originally posted by: WarriorMH
This is equal to say you don't believe because you don't know anything better.

No, that isn't the same thing. Ignorance is not the position. The position is, you can't prove your claim, therefore I don't believe you. It isn't about what you can't 'see'. It's about what one can or cannot 'prove' with evidence.

This is not what an atheist should be like, no difference between the people who said planes could not fly because they were heavier than air and your opinion.

Not even close. Because you can prove planes can fly, therefor an 'aplaneist' would then believe planes can fly.

...because you should also not believe blindly that atoms exist if you can only see them on video or microscope and not have one in your hand and look at it with your own eyes, but that doesn't make any sense too

Correct and that's exactly NOT how it works. I believe atoms exist because we have a cornucopia of experiments and tests to prove they do.

I cannot see a bacteria with my naked eye. But I do not disbelieve in its existence. Why? Because we can prove it exists. Same with molecules, atoms, electrons, protons, neutrons.

Your argument is pretty messed up.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

the point is not to believe in his existence, but to have faith

do you read what you post?

You might have had the experience before of having knowledge of something about to happen that made you say at that moment "I knew this would happen, I knew it would be like this", now if you had confidence it would happen, that was faith.

why are so many posters coming to ATS to try and redefine words to fit their delusions?

originally posted by: randyvs
Wood, I don't give the first rats ass what
you don't believe.

Steady on, snowflake. Don't get so upset when people don't believe you claims in a God when you have no evidence to back it up.

If i called the police and had you arrested for being a drug dealer or a child murderer -- would that be cool? Would you go with the flow? Or would you demand evidence to back up my claim? I should hope you do, as would any sane court of law in any Western society.

Yet the same burden of proof is not required for those of religious faith and demand others respect it. Why is that? Why are the religious who vehemently claim there is a God not required to prove it, but the rest of us have to for everything else?

Very strange.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

because it works