California Becomes First State to Mandate Solar on New Homes

a reply to: interupt42

So the state can dictate how you build your house now.

My my my.

How very authoritarian.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: rickymouse
Presently, you do not really save any money with solar panels. The cost of the panels and installation and maintenance actually burns up any savings in the long run, especially if you do not get a government subsidy to help pay for it.

I know someone who did an array and it will take about the same time to pay back the cost of the system in relation to the savings they will be getting. In that fifteen years, the panels will need to be replaced too, the effective life is twelve years here and they figure that fifteen years would be possibly feasible because of lower power of the sun. The guy does his own cleaning of the panels and inspections to check them.

That really isn't true. It depends on the state, if you are off the grid, what company you use, what type of panel etc...

The some guy anectdote isn't universal.

He has a farm, his electric bill went almost to zero. He spent forty grand but got eight grand in federal credits so it cost him 32 grand that he has to pay for the panels over the next fifteen years on a loan. The loan payment is just about what he saved, and the panels will be worn out in fifteen years, the warrantee on the panels is only five years. He has had them for about three now I think. Overall, he just shuffled the money from the power company to pay the bill for the panels. Being their electricity is kind of unreliable where they are, it is nice they say, they have some huge freezers and fridges there for meat storage.

a reply to: DBCowboy

So the state can dictate how you build your house now.

Yeah. There's this new thing called "Building Codes."

Centralized power generation needs to become a relic of the past. One of my goals for an idealized society is to have power generation at the location of use, with centralized power generation strictly being the "backup" for unexpected circumstances. We're clearly nowhere near there and solar alone will never be able to provide that unless we dramatically reduce our electricity requirements, but this would still be a step in the right direction.

With that in mind, I also think that the prices of solar powered systems need to decrease a lot more before making this mandatory. And there definitely need to be programs in place w/utility companies where homeowners get to sell their electricity back to the utility at reasonable rate (or market rates). After all, the point should be to lower dependence on centralized power generation, not simply to turn a profit.

Where I live, homeowners are required to have insurance and pest control services. But neither of those has the potential to make the homeowner any money. So at least we know that solar can both reduce energy bills dramatically and can even potentially earn the homeowner money (obviously depends on the home's location and the amount of sunlight it receives).

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: rickymouse

If you look into the manufacture of solar panels, they really aren't any more environmentally friendly either. You're just outsourcing the pollution to some 3rd world country full of brown people where they have to mine those toxic rare earth metals for the panels.

Just like electric cars aren't actually any more environmentally friendly. Neither is ethanol.

Yeah, you are totally correct.

Actually the ethanol is far worse on the environment than the gas it replaces. It's production destroys the future use of big sections of land. It never was environmentally friendly, I think some politicians had friends that needed favors.

a reply to: luthier

Actually, it is true. Cost wise, solar can not compete in any scenario. I'm in S. Florida, and have a 2kw system for backup during hurricanes. I also use it for laundry, appliances, etc. It will never repay the cost. It is, planet friendly, and a good hobby.

a reply to: Mach2

That's great. I had a solar city set up in Dallas. My bill was cheaper than the power company. I didn't own the system. They installed it and maintained it.

People with grid tie systems get money back...

And if you own a home with say a tile or slate roof the cost can be comparable with tesla's system.

The more made the cheaper they will be.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

So the state can dictate how you build your house now.

Yeah. There's this new thing called "Building Codes."

Solar panels aren't necessary for the structural integrity of most homes, but maybe you can illuminate us all. . .

a reply to: Phage

I would hate to explain an HOA. Which about 90 percent of new homes even in Texas have.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

So the state can dictate how you build your house now.

Yeah. There's this new thing called "Building Codes."

Solar panels aren't necessary for the structural integrity of most homes, but maybe you can illuminate us all. . .

Have you heard of an HOA?

Most new construction has them. I know because I have bought 4 homes in my life and I have to search to find ones without them.

Solar works great.

Regulations are the problem.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

So the state can dictate how you build your house now.

Yeah. There's this new thing called "Building Codes."

Solar panels aren't necessary for the structural integrity of most homes, but maybe you can illuminate us all. . .

Have you heard of an HOA?

Most new construction has them. I know because I have bought 4 homes in my life and I have to search to find ones without them.

HOA's are just tiny dictatorships waiting to merge.


If Satan existed, he'd have invented HOA's and time-shares.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Solar panels aren't necessary for the structural integrity of most homes, but maybe you can illuminate us all. . .

Nor is insulation. In any case, yes, the state can tell you how to build your house. This is not new.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

So the state can dictate how you build your house now.

Yeah. There's this new thing called "Building Codes."

Solar panels aren't necessary for the structural integrity of most homes, but maybe you can illuminate us all. . .

Have you heard of an HOA?

Most new construction has them. I know because I have bought 4 homes in my life and I have to search to find ones without them.

HOA's are just tiny dictatorships waiting to merge.


If Satan existed, he'd have invented HOA's and time-shares.

My first home was a starter home about 1200 sqft in Texas. I was fined for a red door. The HOA president had two dead limos in front of his house.

But I digress

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

Solar panels aren't necessary for the structural integrity of most homes, but maybe you can illuminate us all. . .

Nor is insulation. In any case, yes, the state can tell you how to build your house. This is not new.

Yeah, it is. Solar panels are not the same thing as uhh, walls or foundations.


But if it's your thing, then enjoy.

I will vocally condemn this kind of dictatorial bull-spanky as much as I can.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Solar panels are not the same thing as uhh, walls or foundations.

Right. Neither is insulation. It's been required for a while now.

Electrical work isn't structural. No code needed? Plumbing? Ok to use lead paint if you want to?

I've had solar for 2 years now.....I pay 100 bucks a month regardless of the deficit in the summer and winter or the surplus during spring and fall...this INCLUDES gas and all the fees and taxes on the bill...California has a PUC (public utilities commission) that works with the power companies and state government to set rates on a 5-year plan...guess what? the power companies have an automatic rate increase baked into the plan approved by the state. i'm saving about 2,000 dollars a year on the electric side. these first 2 years i'm breaking even on the cost of the panels and install, but in subsequent years (because of the never ending rate increases by PG&E), i'll be paying less over the long run....and bonus...when I sell the home, it's an added feature.....maintenance is easy...twice a year I take a brush that you use to wash your own car, attach it to a long pole, and use a water hose to clean them off, I do it twice a year and it takes about 40 minutes...my panels are guaranteed for 25 years, and i'll save enough to pay the loan off in about 10 years.....

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

Solar panels are not the same thing as uhh, walls or foundations.

Right. Neither is insulation. It's been required for a while now.

Electrical work isn't structural. No code needed? Plumbing? Ok to use lead paint if you want to?

:

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

Solar panels are not the same thing as uhh, walls or foundations.

Right. Neither is insulation. It's been required for a while now.

Electrical work isn't structural. No code needed? Plumbing? Ok to use lead paint if you want to?

:

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

Solar panels are not the same thing as uhh, walls or foundations.

Right. Neither is insulation. It's been required for a while now.

Electrical work isn't structural. No code needed? Plumbing? Ok to use lead paint if you want to?

: