At least 84 people were shot in Chicago over the past week

a reply to: Konduit
There is no excuse for the corruption that for generations has controlled the economy of Chicago. But to merely blame it on the democrats, the Daley Machine and power structure before and after it is a bit myopic.

Any understanding of the problems of Chicago needs to take into account it's place in American history. The massive slaughter houses that drew immigrants from around the world, drew impoverished people from the south, with the promise of work for a better life drew in people by the tens of thousands only to find near slave like wages and living conditions for those who answered those promises.
The housing industry that in hand with the banking industry that would lure workers into impossible rental and ownership contracts needs to be understood.

These practices were not the result of liberal democrats, there were the result of unscrupulous men in power who would have used and indeed did, use what ever political name they could find to consoladate their economic holds on the working class.

It is telling that the Obamas wouldn't even move back to their hometown. American tragedy.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

That's probably because those "kids" see more money and opportunity on the streets now, than graduating and hoping for a future.

are they wrong?

most of them can't get jobs paying more than 10-12 an hour probably working in a warehouse, what's the incentive? to get taxed to death and not be able to afford any healthcare?

Chicago is an economic and social disaster.

It’s like most urban American cities but worse. Think no supermarkets, no banks, hardly gas stations; schools are closed, abandoned storefronts and malls in abundance, no more social clubs, taverns, abandoned buildings in the thousands.

That’s inner-city America. The idea of a 4 percent unemployment and economic rise there is a lie and myth in the inner city ghettos of America.

The only commerce is a few bodegas run by Dominicans, a beauty parlor or two, maybe a pawn shop and cell phone store here and there, and a few pizza parlors, Chinese restaurants with a bordered up partition for security but that’s about it.

Poverty is rampant, and gangs and gangs and more gangs prey on these poor neighborhoods.

a reply to: Willtell


The economic highs and lows in Chicago are becoming further apart. The upscale areas are booming with growth. The downscale areas look like war-torn areas of Syria. The in-between middle class sections are shrinking.

a reply to: Black_Fox

Hey! You stupid racist! You stay out of this! This is none of your business! Go find a white person harming a black person, or deciding not to hire a black person, or didn't sound genuine enough when they apologized for bumping into a black person, THEN you got yourself a story! Can't you find something people Care About, like a white guy with dreads or something else horribly racist that proves racism is alive and well today?

What's next, you're gonna tell us how half those murder victims were minors? BOOOORIIIIIING. Find a white girl in an Asian dress, THEN we have a juicy conversation!

Nobody cares about the Hood, just like Ice Cube said in Boyz N Da Hood...
But if you can show me a video footage of a gang shooting, with a white person in the background shaking their head disaprovingly, then you got yourself a story! "White racist looks on, doing nothing to help as innocent blacks are dying!" or "Dumb Racist White person Just doesn't understand our culture!"


If we stop with the "evil racist white man" narrative for even a second, those Chicago youths might get the silly idea in their heads that, succeeding, educating yourself, and living a moral life in a polite society while conducting one self as a gentleman, isn't "the white man's lies", or "acting too white" etc, then they might start to learn and value their own potential more than "street cred".

And we all know there is Nothing on Earth or in Heaven that is better than Street Cred. It's totally worth it to blow a guys brains out for disrespecting you, and go to prison for life, because then you'll have Street Cred, and everyone will know they can't mess with you. Do you know how BADASS that's gonna be!?

Besides, allowing a guy to step on your sneakers and then not beating him to within an inch of his life? Man, that's some lame ass white people #!

Getting an education and taking care of your family and being there for your kids? Man, that's some lame ass white people #!

Being polite and respecting others and learning to speak and spell things properly and treat other people And their property with respect? Oh Hell No, that's some white trash garbage right there. Let's join a gang, glare at Everyone, steal anything not nailed down, scream cusswords at anyone who looks at us more than half a second, start fights everywhere we go, and then go home and whine and complain that nobody likes us and nobody will hire us because they are all racist!

Holy Sh.... can we find a black leader, anywhere, who is willing to speak out against this? Oh yeah I forgot, Cosby stepped up a while ago and.... oh, wait... that didn't turn out so well for him. (Yeah he probably did rape those women but the thing is they probably would've let him die a Legend if he didn't speak out)

Anyone who tries to talk about it more than marginally, as a side comment or afterthought, gets dealt with.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Konduit
There is no excuse for the corruption that for generations has controlled the economy of Chicago. But to merely blame it on the democrats, the Daley Machine and power structure before and after it is a bit myopic.

Any understanding of the problems of Chicago needs to take into account it's place in American history. The massive slaughter houses that drew immigrants from around the world, drew impoverished people from the south, with the promise of work for a better life drew in people by the tens of thousands only to find near slave like wages and living conditions for those who answered those promises.
The housing industry that in hand with the banking industry that would lure workers into impossible rental and ownership contracts needs to be understood.

These practices were not the result of liberal democrats, there were the result of unscrupulous men in power who would have used and indeed did, use what ever political name they could find to consoladate their economic holds on the working class.

Ok, so, how is that supposed to help us solve this problem? I'm just honestly curious. All I can see is that it gives you someone to blame. Help me out here, what am I missing?

I admit i have some ignorance towards the states and problems surrounding certain states. because im from europe (now live in canada).

I knew Detroit has some serious, serious issues ($1 houses) but i had no idea that Chicago was getting so bad.

What happened there?

a reply to: Ghostsinthefog

The worst American cities are run by very corrupt Democrats. But, since the populations of those cities keep electing and reelecting the same type of politician for their mayor, they must like how they live. It's everyone outside of those cities who point and complain. The citizens of Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Los Angeles, etc.., must be satisfied.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Black_Fox

Very large race tag on the question. And all that goes with it. Cant look properly at this without understanding.

But maybe not the race you were expecting:

In 2016, the population of Hispanics exceeded that of Blacks to become Chicago's second largest minority group with non-Hispanic Whites representing 32.6% of the population Hispanics at 29.7% of the population, and Blacks at 29.3% of the population.[5]

en.wikipedia.org...

There were around 290,000 Hispanics in Chicago in 2000.
By 2016 that number was closer to 1,000,000
Open borders are causing massive demographic changes.
Chicago's crime rates are pushed by ethnic gangs fighting for control.

In the year 2000 Hispanics were only 10% of the population.

Even though Wiki calls Chicago a "melting pot" it would seem the ingredients prefer to not mix:

Chicago, though arguably racially diverse overall, is considered by researchers to be the nation’s most racially segregated city. According to 2009 American Community Survey data, of Chicago’s 77 community areas, 68 are home to a population of which at least 50 percent identify with a single racial group.

So much for multiculturalism, eh?

interactive map of demographic change since 1910 when Chicago was 90% White:
www.huffingtonpost.com...

there is no legal way to fix that city, the best thing that could happen to the city would be horrific for the republic.

Forcibly move the people scatter them across the country (plenty of empty homes), then bull doze Chicago.

That is about the only way you are ever going to fix that city.

Double

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Edumakated

Sorry, but that isn't quite accurate.

Yes, some of it is gang vs. gang violence with a good number of innocents caught in the middle. But there is also a fair amount of armed robberies, car jacking, etc, that might end differently if people could protect themselves. You can't just blame it all on gangland drive-bys and leave it at that.

It is disingenuous to ignore the number of intentional shootings which varies from month to month. With summer approaching that number will increase dramatically, and I fear this year will be one of the worst on record. Time will tell.

I live here... it is quite accurate. Yes, there are some robberies, etc but the reality is that the vast majority is gang related or beefs over bullsh*t. I was trying to find a report the Chicago PD put out, but literally 80% of the murders are gang related. Chicago is the gang capital.

Here is a news report from last year talking about how gangs in Chicago are literally beefing over freaking Facebook posts!

Social Media Fueling Gang Violence in Chicago

In the article:

The overwhelming percentage of murders taking place in Chicago can be traced to either gang members or to others who have some sort of gang tie, according to Deputy Chief of Police Kevin Ryan. Celebrating 30 years on the force this year, Ryan, who heads Area Central, says Chicago has 59 gangs, 625 factions totaling 125,000 members. And that an estimated 75% of murders in Chicago are gang related. Using that percentage 571 of Chicago’s 762 killings in 2016 are gang related.

It is literally Lord of the Flies. Feral youths running around with no father figures and hood rat mamas. In fact, you might as well call them child soldiers. Chief of police commented last year the average age of a "shooter" now is like 15...

Chicago Police Chief - Shooters are getting younger

I have lived in and around Chicago since 1965 with a few years off here and there along the way. I know this city very well.

Gangs are not responsible for 80% of the murders. There may be a single year where that may have been true but I doubt even that. For example take the year 2011. 30% of murders were for unknown reasons. That takes care of your 80% number right there. 70% were over some form of domestic disagreement. 54% of those were committed by gang members though not all were gang related. Bangers have personal lives too. Source: Chicago Police Department crime statistics.

The truth is that roughly one third of the murders in Chicago go unsolved. Police believe they are gang related based on the locations, which are mainly districts 2, 3, 6, 7, 11, and 15. Yes, there is a heavy gang presence there. But there are many murders due to fights, drug use, robberies, and domestic issues, that do not involve gangs. Living in these areas means people tend to have a gang mentality, though they may not be directly tied to a gang itself.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
there is no legal way to fix that city, the best thing that could happen to the city would be horrific for the republic.

Forcibly move the people scatter them across the country (plenty of empty homes), then bull doze Chicago.

That is about the only way you are ever going to fix that city.

That would fix Chicago but ruin wherever you sent the people. I live a short drive outside the city limits now. My town started building subsidized housing several years ago. The number of minorities living here has gone up dramatically in the last five years and so has the crime. When you send the people from those areas somewhere else for a better life they bring their lifestyle with them and it takes little time for them to turn their new home into a carbon copy of the previous one. I lived here for years without ever hearing of a car jacking or a drive by shooting. Now they both happen here. And the decent folk who used to live happily here are leaving while property values are still relatively good.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Konduit
There is no excuse for the corruption that for generations has controlled the economy of Chicago. But to merely blame it on the democrats, the Daley Machine and power structure before and after it is a bit myopic.

Any understanding of the problems of Chicago needs to take into account it's place in American history. The massive slaughter houses that drew immigrants from around the world, drew impoverished people from the south, with the promise of work for a better life drew in people by the tens of thousands only to find near slave like wages and living conditions for those who answered those promises.
The housing industry that in hand with the banking industry that would lure workers into impossible rental and ownership contracts needs to be understood.

These practices were not the result of liberal democrats, there were the result of unscrupulous men in power who would have used and indeed did, use what ever political name they could find to consoladate their economic holds on the working class.

Yes and no.

Going back to the early 1900's, the slaughterhouse days, Chicago was 90% white and the problems it sees today did not exist. As far back as the 50's the democrat machine had a stranglehold on Chicago and has never let go. Organized crime working mainly through the unions had a huge influence on Chicago politics.

The race riots of the 60's and forced desegregation in the schools were the beginning of the end. Mashing those two very different cultures together was a mistake. In one generation Chicagoans saw their beautiful 90% white relatively peaceful city turn into a criminal hellhole at the same time they witnessed a huge upsurge in minority presence. It wasn't hard to draw a conclusion as to what was happening. Local politics did nothing to resolve the issue having found a huge new voter base to manipulate. And that leads us to today. Stick with handouts and the promise of a better life that never materializes, register dead people to vote, teach illegals to vote and give them an ID to let them do it, gerrymander the few districts that are a threat to the party, and you have a political machine that will never let go. Democrats.

Lighten up on the laws so that people do not feel like enemy of the state. Start programs (jobs/training/mental service). Give the people a sense of pride and reason for being. Stop the lie that each race hates the other. Its not true.

Anyone have any honest sensible ways to resolve the issues? Are most rooted in self esteem? Hopelessness? Rap Music (kidding)?

All we need is love. Seriously

I will help anyone in need, but I admit I will trip over myself to help a person of another race just to show we all care.

My father had a massive heart attack a few years back. He was in Louisiana at a truck stop in his RV. My step mom went knocking on truckers doors. My step mother and father are white/Indian. At about truck # 10, a big scary black guy jumped out and gave my dad CPR until the paramedics showed. He did not make it, but I owe everything to that stranger for trying.

The fake race war makes me want to vomit.

Take the bull by the horns.

Clean it up.

Or hire someone.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Edumakated

Sorry, but that isn't quite accurate.

Yes, some of it is gang vs. gang violence with a good number of innocents caught in the middle. But there is also a fair amount of armed robberies, car jacking, etc, that might end differently if people could protect themselves. You can't just blame it all on gangland drive-bys and leave it at that.

It is disingenuous to ignore the number of intentional shootings which varies from month to month. With summer approaching that number will increase dramatically, and I fear this year will be one of the worst on record. Time will tell.

I live here... it is quite accurate. Yes, there are some robberies, etc but the reality is that the vast majority is gang related or beefs over bullsh*t. I was trying to find a report the Chicago PD put out, but literally 80% of the murders are gang related. Chicago is the gang capital.

Here is a news report from last year talking about how gangs in Chicago are literally beefing over freaking Facebook posts!

Social Media Fueling Gang Violence in Chicago

In the article:

The overwhelming percentage of murders taking place in Chicago can be traced to either gang members or to others who have some sort of gang tie, according to Deputy Chief of Police Kevin Ryan. Celebrating 30 years on the force this year, Ryan, who heads Area Central, says Chicago has 59 gangs, 625 factions totaling 125,000 members. And that an estimated 75% of murders in Chicago are gang related. Using that percentage 571 of Chicago’s 762 killings in 2016 are gang related.

It is literally Lord of the Flies. Feral youths running around with no father figures and hood rat mamas. In fact, you might as well call them child soldiers. Chief of police commented last year the average age of a "shooter" now is like 15...

Chicago Police Chief - Shooters are getting younger

I have lived in and around Chicago since 1965 with a few years off here and there along the way. I know this city very well.

Gangs are not responsible for 80% of the murders. There may be a single year where that may have been true but I doubt even that. For example take the year 2011. 30% of murders were for unknown reasons. That takes care of your 80% number right there. 70% were over some form of domestic disagreement. 54% of those were committed by gang members though not all were gang related. Bangers have personal lives too. Source: Chicago Police Department crime statistics.

The truth is that roughly one third of the murders in Chicago go unsolved. Police believe they are gang related based on the locations, which are mainly districts 2, 3, 6, 7, 11, and 15. Yes, there is a heavy gang presence there. But there are many murders due to fights, drug use, robberies, and domestic issues, that do not involve gangs. Living in these areas means people tend to have a gang mentality, though they may not be directly tied to a gang itself.

I linked to direct quotes from the CPD. Oh wait, here is a report from the FBI from 2017.

Chicago’s extreme gun violence—762 homicides last year and more than 4,000 people wounded—has been described as an epidemic. Primarily gang-related, the shootings are often spontaneous and unpredictable, and the toll on victims, families, and entire communities cannot be overstated. That’s why the FBI’s Chicago Division, working with the Chicago Police Department (CPD) and other agencies, has undertaken significant measures to address the problem.

FBI, Chicago Violence Gang Related

You can split hairs all you want, but the reality is the vast majority are gang related and at a minimum, one thug shooting another thug. Even the majority of the little kids and innocents killed are by products of gangs/thugs shooting at each other.

Yes, there is domestic violence, robberies, but those are not the majority of the murder victims. It isn't even close.

Here is a Chicago PD report from 2011... (they stopped publishing it) breaking down murder stats by every conceivable variable down to day of the week, indoor vs outdoor, race , gang affiliation... etc.

See Page 27. Murders by motive. Clearly states the vast majority are related to some type of gang altercation. Here is another fact to chew on... almost 77% of the VICTIMS have prior arrest records. 87% of the offenders had prior arrest records.

Chicago Police Murder Report (2011)

While I support concealed carry and gun rights, my point to you earlier was that it is disingenuous to use Chicago (or any other big city murder rates) as the reality is that the majority of crime committed really has no affect on the average person because that crime is highly concentrated in certain areas and among certain demographics.

Put another way, a guy getting his CCW who lives on the North Shore because he hears about Chicago crime is not really understanding the dynamics of the crime occurring. The odds of that person being in Austin, Englewood or any of the other sh*tholes responsible for the high murder rate is slim to none (unless they are a drug addict).

This is not to say there isn't some value in being armed just in case, but statistically the typical FOID card holder is not going to be anywhere near where most crime in Chicago occurs.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Irishhaf
there is no legal way to fix that city, the best thing that could happen to the city would be horrific for the republic.

Forcibly move the people scatter them across the country (plenty of empty homes), then bull doze Chicago.

That is about the only way you are ever going to fix that city.

That would fix Chicago but ruin wherever you sent the people. I live a short drive outside the city limits now. My town started building subsidized housing several years ago. The number of minorities living here has gone up dramatically in the last five years and so has the crime. When you send the people from those areas somewhere else for a better life they bring their lifestyle with them and it takes little time for them to turn their new home into a carbon copy of the previous one. I lived here for years without ever hearing of a car jacking or a drive by shooting. Now they both happen here. And the decent folk who used to live happily here are leaving while property values are still relatively good.

Agree with you on this point. There has been a cultural erosion brought on by LBJs war on poverty policies. It isn't that the neighborhoods are bad, but it is that the people living in those neighborhoods are bad. They have social and cultural norms that are simply not prevalent in middle and upper class areas - baby mamas, fighting, attitudes, etc. You can move these people but more often than not, they bring those behaviors to the new place and sooner or later after the population reaches a certain point, you start to see the neighborhood decline. The good residents move out leaving nothing but the hood rats and presto.... new ghetto area.

a reply to: Edumakated

Per your own link - less than half of the murders have a known suspect. In other words, less than half the murders can be identified as having been committed by a gang. As I said in my response to your earlier post, they are assumed to be gang related due to their location but it is not confirmed.

Less than half of the murders have been cleared. Cleared is defined as perpetrator arrested and prosecuted, or, perpetrator known but not arrested for some reason. How can you claim any percentage above the number with positively identified perpetrators is accurate? Read the text more clearly. When they know for a fact it is very clear. When they are assuming or estimating it is also clear.

While I support concealed carry and gun rights, my point to you earlier was that it is disingenuous to use Chicago (or any other big city murder rates) as the reality is that the majority of crime committed really has no affect on the average person because that crime is highly concentrated in certain areas and among certain demographics. Put another way, a guy getting his CCW who lives on the North Shore because he hears about Chicago crime is not really understanding the dynamics of the crime occurring. The odds of that person being in Austin, Englewood or any of the other sh*tholes responsible for the high murder rate is slim to none (unless they are a drug addict). This is not to say there isn't some value in being armed just in case, but statistically the typical FOID card holder is not going to be anywhere near where most crime in Chicago occurs.

First, as I pointed out earlier, the crime is not staying in the districts where it originated. It is moving outward to the suburbs. Living outside of those neighborhoods does not make you safe from the crime that emanates from there. Second, why focus on the guy on the North Shore? Why not give the CCW to the guy in Austin, or Englewood where it will do some good? As it stands now the only people in those neighborhoods who have guns are the criminals. Level the playing field and see if things get better, worse, or stay the same. At least give the good guys a chance... As so many have pointed out in the past, not everyone who lives in those neighborhoods is a gang banger. Some of them are just decent people trying to get by. You take an unlikely event like a North Shore guy spending time in Austin or Englewood than criticize it for being so unlikely. Leave the North Shore out of it and give the CCW to someone who it may actually help. Though I would recommend giving a CCW to the North Shore guy also. It is just a matter of time until this crime reaches his neighborhood too.