Oh you guys are gonna have a field day. Cohen was wiretapped!

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: GuidedKill

Yeah I know. Imagine the bad # they heard to get that raid.

Is this the same fbu that wiretapped Carter page.

Imagine the bad stiff they had to know to get a wiretap on him.

Oh wait, they still have nothing at all on him.

But I am sure this time is different.

I mean, its not like the fbi would take something like salacious and unverified oppo research from trumps opponent, sourced from kremlin agents, buttressed by a yahoonews article that the creator of the oppo research was the source for, to wiretap an aemrican citizen that was a trump associate.

Oh wait that is exactly what they did!

But I am sure this time was different!

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: introvert

I think kitten skins was pretty out there even for our fellow members on the other side.
I'm trusting in that. If Q starts talking about it though at least this is one source we can confidently confirm. Lol

I'm sure Q will use cryptic messages to somehow touch on this issue...when he gets out of school for the day.

Its only speculation about why Cohen was raided or his phones tapped and emails read by the fbi. The media first said it must be the Stormi Daniels payment. Even if it broke campaign fiance laws it would be a misdemeanor they don't raid offices and get wire taps for that. They just subpoena the applicable documents.

The other speculation is that Cohen has ties to some business man in Ukraine. And something shady was going on there. Even if Cohen has broken the law himself it shouldn't negate attorney client privilege for any of his clients. Just the fact Mueller refered it to the Southern District means it has nothing to do with Mueller's probe. Lends credence to the possibility they may have violated attorney client privilege of Cohens clients.

I personally believe the fbi has in the past knowingly used unverified documents to start surveillance. I think the bar is pretty low at Fbi.

a reply to: shooterbrody

When was it referred? I don't recall that ever being discussed.
Apparently at least a few weeks before the raid. Probably when the conversations about Stormy Daniels started making the rounds. It could have been as far back as January when the payoff was first revealed. I don't know.

originally posted by: Meniscus
Its only speculation about why Cohen was raided or his phones tapped and emails read by the fbi. The media first said it must be the Stormi Daniels payment. Even if it broke campaign fiance laws it would be a misdemeanor they don't raid offices and get wire taps for that. They just subpoena the applicable documents.

The other speculation is that Cohen has ties to some business man in Ukraine. And something shady was going on there. Even if Cohen has broken the law himself it shouldn't negate attorney client privilege for any of his clients. Just the fact Mueller refered it to the Southern District means it has nothing to do with Mueller's probe. Lends credence to the possibility they may have violated attorney client privilege of Cohens clients.

I personally believe the fbi has in the past knowingly used unverified documents to start surveillance. I think the bar is pretty low at Fbi.

I guess trump should have picked better leadership in the doj and fbi. Or have his supporters found a way to blame that on someone else too?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: imthegoat

You don't know when Mueller referred it. I think your making an assumption that it was just before the raid but I don't recall seeing anything saying when Mueller handed this over.
NY DID initiate both the wire tap and the search warrant.

you are correct we do not know the date of the wiretap
if they find crimes I hope the criminals are prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law
by the same token if shenanigans are found I hope those are prosecuted just as vigorously.

originally posted by: introvert

I'm really not sure what you are trying to ask or imply.

I never said anything about "only" anything.

You said...

It appears Muller and his team had nothing to do with this, accept a referral to the NY authorities, which they are legally and ethically bound to do.

Feds had everything to do with it with the main purpose to support their case using the State agency to bypass their fed authority. Your statement above suggests otherwise.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just that this wasn't about some "ethically bounds" when the feds had nothing to begin with, but could not randomly fish for information without using the State. If they did have something they would not have needed the state. Once again this has all been nothing more than a fishing trip to throw out as many nets as possible hoping for a catch, which BTW has not happened in well over a year of fishing...

Sooner or later they might get something...who knows maybe Trump had sex with a porn star and we can impeach him on that...will keep are finger crossed...

This destroys attorney/client privilege. I also consider it a major national security issue.

The law enforcement aspect of the Exec Branch is wildly out of control.

It is amazing to me that Trump is persevering without any serious health issues. He's trying to run the country and everyone is shooting at his feet.

Despicable. Let the man do the job.

a reply to: Meniscus

Even if Cohen has broken the law himself it shouldn't negate attorney client privilege for any of his clients.

That is true. The only problem is that attorney-client privilege is no longer a valid defense to withhold certain info, or ask for certain info to not be included in a case, if that relationship was part of perpetuating a crime.

Just the fact Mueller refered it to the Southern District means it has nothing to do with Mueller's probe.

That is also true, but it doesn't necessarily mean it does not have anything to do with Trump.

Lends credence to the possibility they may have violated attorney client privilege of Cohens clients.

No it does not.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Meniscus
Its only speculation about why Cohen was raided or his phones tapped and emails read by the fbi. The media first said it must be the Stormi Daniels payment. Even if it broke campaign fiance laws it would be a misdemeanor they don't raid offices and get wire taps for that. They just subpoena the applicable documents.

The other speculation is that Cohen has ties to some business man in Ukraine. And something shady was going on there. Even if Cohen has broken the law himself it shouldn't negate attorney client privilege for any of his clients. Just the fact Mueller refered it to the Southern District means it has nothing to do with Mueller's probe. Lends credence to the possibility they may have violated attorney client privilege of Cohens clients.

I personally believe the fbi has in the past knowingly used unverified documents to start surveillance. I think the bar is pretty low at Fbi.

I guess trump should have picked better leadership in the doj and fbi. Or have his supporters found a way to blame that on someone else too?

so your argument is because trump chose poorly (something I have criticized him for) he deserves to be taken down in a corrupt manner?

Sure that makes sense!

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: shooterbrody

When was it referred? I don't recall that ever being discussed.
Apparently at least a few weeks before the raid. Probably when the conversations about Stormy Daniels started making the rounds. It could have been as far back as January when the payoff was first revealed. I don't know.

i wonder if there has ever been a case of alleged campaign finance law violation investigated this aggressively....
I wonder if the special master is involved in sorting the privileged conversations...

I've looked at a few articles published back on April 8th and 9thght after the raid and while they mention that the warrant was obtained because of a referral from Robert Mueller none of them say when that referral took place. Since NY initiated the wire tap and the warrant it was at least early March. But I have no way of knowing for sure.

Boy they are trying hard to find dirt on Trump.
Its to be expected in a witch hunt though so I'm not surprised. Wonder what was said in that phone call?

Has it been mentioned yet that apparently the wiretap recorded a call between Trump and Cohen telling Cohen to burn everything, which is why the FBI raided Cohen's office when they did?

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: shooterbrody

When was it referred? I don't recall that ever being discussed.
Apparently at least a few weeks before the raid. Probably when the conversations about Stormy Daniels started making the rounds. It could have been as far back as January when the payoff was first revealed. I don't know.

i wonder if there has ever been a case of alleged campaign finance law violation investigated this aggressively....
I wonder if the special master is involved in sorting the privileged conversations...

Again we know Obama broke campaign finance laws in 2008.

Why wasnt his lawyers office broken in to?

Why wasnt his people wiretapped and then leaked to the press about it?

Oh thats right; because this is just about taking trump down by any means neccessary, the crimes dont matter to these people.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Has it been mentioned yet that apparently the wiretap recorded a call between Trump and Cohen telling Cohen to burn everything, which is why the FBI raided Cohen's office when they did?

Is it a crime to burn evidence?

I mean I thought that was ok.

Didnt hillarys team destroy a bunch of subpoenaed evidence?

The fbi was cool with that, right? I mean they didnt then wiretap hillarys people who destroyed this evidence.

I wonder what made them change their minds in this situation?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Has it been mentioned yet that apparently the wiretap recorded a call between Trump and Cohen telling Cohen to burn everything, which is why the FBI raided Cohen's office when they did?

Is it a crime to burn evidence?

I mean I thought that was ok.

Didnt hillarys team destroy a bunch of subpoenaed evidence?

The fbi was cool with that, right? I mean they didnt then wiretap hillarys people who destroyed this evidence.

I wonder what made them change their minds in this situation?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Perhaps, but this is about Trump. It sounds like you're saying because Hillary got away with something you think was similar that its wrong to come down on Trump for it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Feds had everything to do with it with the main purpose to support their case using the State agency to bypass their fed authority.

I've heard that mentioned before, but never seen any evidence presented. Do you have that evidence?

Your statement above suggests otherwise.

It is my "suggestion" that they were legally and ethically required to hand any information they may have found to the proper authorities, if they found something that warranted further investigation, yet was beyond their current investigation's scope.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just that this wasn't about some "ethically bounds" when the feds had nothing to begin with, but could not randomly fish for information without using the State.

We should be careful not to confuse following breadcrumbs with fishing expeditions.

If they did have something they would not have needed the state.

That is false. If they found something in the course of their investigation, but is outside of their investigation's scope, they are well within their right to pass it along to the authority that can follow up.

Once again this has all been nothing more than a fishing trip to throw out as many nets as possible hoping for a catch, which BTW has not happened in well over a year of fishing... Sooner or later they might get something...who knows maybe Trump had sex with a porn star and we can impeach him on that...will keep are finger crossed...

It appears the investigators are catching quite a bit without the need to throw wide nets.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Meniscus
Its only speculation about why Cohen was raided or his phones tapped and emails read by the fbi. The media first said it must be the Stormi Daniels payment. Even if it broke campaign fiance laws it would be a misdemeanor they don't raid offices and get wire taps for that. They just subpoena the applicable documents.

The other speculation is that Cohen has ties to some business man in Ukraine. And something shady was going on there. Even if Cohen has broken the law himself it shouldn't negate attorney client privilege for any of his clients. Just the fact Mueller refered it to the Southern District means it has nothing to do with Mueller's probe. Lends credence to the possibility they may have violated attorney client privilege of Cohens clients.

I personally believe the fbi has in the past knowingly used unverified documents to start surveillance. I think the bar is pretty low at Fbi.

I guess trump should have picked better leadership in the doj and fbi. Or have his supporters found a way to blame that on someone else too?

He fired Comey and it triggered a Special Counsel. Im pretty sure if he tries to fire others at the fbi it would be used politically by his detractors. Which would rehash the obstruction and impeachment calls.

I think the wire tap came first and the fruits of that are why Cohen was raided. Im not sure who intiated the surveillance if it was Mueller or the Southern district in Ny.

News is saying the wire tap was weeks before the raid.