Las Vegas Police Release Bodycam Footage From Inside Shooter's Hotel Rooms

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: seattlerat



No Windows were smashed in the snipers' room...

What the hell? Could you give us a link for that? Where are you getting that? Because that's pretty giant, if that's what they are saying now. Because we've all seen the pictures from outside of the room of the two smashed windows, and we've seen the pictures from inside the room with the windows smashed and that teeny tiny hammer resting nearby which we're supposed to believe knocked out that thick-ass hurricane glass.

But if there is a report saying no smashed windows then the story has changed yet again but in a fundamental way.

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: Make Speed Limit 45
The cops had 7 months to alter this and everybody knows they did. Cops need to release videos immediately.

Yah when CTs and the like are already prone to jumping to conclusions I'm sure that would work out well.

.

What's the conclusion CTs jumped to in this case that you take issue with?

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: seattlerat



No Windows were smashed in the snipers' room...

What the hell? Could you give us a link for that? Where are you getting that? Because that's pretty giant, if that's what they are saying now. Because we've all seen the pictures from outside of the room of the two smashed windows, and we've seen the pictures from inside the room with the windows smashed and that teeny tiny hammer resting nearby which we're supposed to believe knocked out that thick-ass hurricane glass.

But if there is a report saying no smashed windows then the story has changed yet again but in a fundamental way.

Clearly not anything factual as I was in Vegas for a tradeshowconvention when it all went down and could clearly see the windows missing right where it was said they were missing on the Mandalay Bay.

As for what scenario do CTs jump to conclusions or latch on to things.. see every major scenario over the past 10 years where some report that comes out in the first 5 mins event gets labeled as factual then called a cover up when the more info is known.

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: seattlerat



No Windows were smashed in the snipers' room...

What the hell? Could you give us a link for that? Where are you getting that? Because that's pretty giant, if that's what they are saying now. Because we've all seen the pictures from outside of the room of the two smashed windows, and we've seen the pictures from inside the room with the windows smashed and that teeny tiny hammer resting nearby which we're supposed to believe knocked out that thick-ass hurricane glass.

But if there is a report saying no smashed windows then the story has changed yet again but in a fundamental way.

Clearly not anything factual as I was in Vegas for a tradeshowconvention when it all went down and could clearly see the windows missing right where it was said they were missing on the Mandalay Bay.

As for what scenario do CTs jump to conclusions or latch on to things.. see every major scenario over the past 10 years where some report that comes out in the first 5 mins event gets labeled as factual then called a cover up when the more info is known.

I don't think you replied to the post that you meant to.

For the conspiracy theory. I asked you what CT is it in THIS case that you take issue with? THIS situation. Which Las Vegas shooting theories/ideas do you object to?

Is it me...or does the fire alarm kick in only after the police commit to the breach (at 0:34, the beeping before sounds like a fancy intercom)? Is that gunfire after they breach? Why is the fire alarm going off only after the breach?

Are we seriously to believe this maniac fired thousands of rounds out of that room without triggering the fire alarms, but the police set them off upon breaching and discharging a couple of carbines/possibly flash bangs? You can tell by the rate they're cycling at that the alarms were NOT activated until after the big pow followed by a couple smaller pops.

a reply to: Moohide

Quality of comms - Good observation / question, and something I know a good bit about actually.

It's a rather long technical explanation, but I'll try to keep it brief. ...

Radio communications in high rise buildings can often be an issue (shouldn't be, but they are). Public Safety radios generally operate in the 800MHz band. National building Code, specifically NFPA (as well as most local adoptions and amendments of the same Code) require radio augmentation systems to be installed to facilitate Public Safety radio frequencies. Much of these requirements were a direct result of poor radio communications during the 9-11 response in NYC. Many will recall hearing of these issues. Consequently, building Codes were amended to address these problems. Many of the problems stem from the fact building "owner's" are required to install these systems at their own cost. They are known as "Distributed Antenna Systems" or DAS. They are not cheap, and as a result many building owners will only do the bare minimum to get a Cert. of Occupancy (CO). The systems are tested by local fire departments before the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) will issue a CO. While the Code requires these systems to be re-tested annually, the testing process is very time consuming and requires a lot of manpower (not cheap)...meaning they often don't get re-tested and certified at all. Because these system don't contribute to a building's bottom line, they are often neglected...until they're really needed and then they don't work.

Now a brief bit about the buildings themselves... Most new buildings, especially buildings like casino's, etc., are clad in what is known as 'low-E" glass for energy savings. Low-E coatings are often metallic and 'attenuate' (shield) radio signals from passing through them, hence the requirement for DAS systems. When you couple this with a steel structure, and steel studs in wall framing, you wind up with a very radio-unfriendly building.

That's really pretty much it in a nutshell. Not really a comment one way or the other about the tapes in the OP, but a response to your observation (which was a good one BTW).

a reply to: Greenfire

Well, there's a couple possible explanations for this. Fire Alarm thresholds in buildings like casinos are usually set pretty high, so they don't alarm very easily. (there are a variety of reasons why this is, but the bottom line is to prevent false alarms). Fire Alarms (and response) can be very, very, disruptive to an operation inside of a building (especially something like a casino) and criminal laws govern what the minimum response is (more on this if you're interested).

Now, back to the room in question... When the shooter was in the room with the doors shut the room would have been under a slight positive air pressure (this is done on purpose). So, with the window broken out most of the smoke would have been going out the window. If someone were to open the door (regardless of how), a cross-draft would be created (higher pressure air going to a lower pressure environment). This would mix air from both the hallway, the room and the area outside the window all inside the room increasing the smoke particulate per cubic foot of air volume dramatically...and triggering the fire alarm.

Sounds complicated, I know, and it is, but of all the things I don't believe about this event the fire alarm not going off isn't one of them.

ETA...you can prove this out in your own house. Burn something on the stove sometime, and the fire alarm inside your house doesn't necessarily go off. Open a door or a window to vent the smoke and all of a sudden the fire alarm will go off. Same principle.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
There is another reason why you have the overpressure, it´s because if there is a fire, there is an air-pocket completely free of smoke about 10-15cm under the ceiling. To not let that pocket build up and prevent the sensor from detecting the particles.

You can only speculate until you know what kind of smoke detectors were used.

There are different kind of methods and like you wrote, you can configure them with profiles. Commerical/Industry quality optical detectors know if it´s cigarette smoke/vapor/dust or a fly zipping through the sensor.

Name me the brand or show me a photo of one and I´ll dig out the specs.

Bombshell?

Mandalay Bay Shooting Body Camera Footage Released: No Broken Windows Reported

It appears that the cops found the guns set up by the window, but the windows were not broken.

Did the official narrative just take a fatal head shot? This means the windows must have been broken later.

a reply to: verschickter

I agree. I was just being more general.

There are actually a number of engineering reasons for these circumstances. I didn't want to get into mechanical system designs though (and smoke evac. strategies, pressure vs. exhaust, etc.). But you are correct and I agree.

ETA...yes, and the type of detector also plays a large role as well (photoelectric vs. ionization, etc.)

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I´ve tested ionization detectors that I could blow test-smoke into it for up to a minute and it would not react until I was already at the next detector for testing.

Then I´ve tested optical ones that would go off the second you put on the smoker device with the vapor left from the test before.

Correct me if I´m wrong but did the detectors just went off when they blasted the door? Then, it could be that the smoke from the guns was already in the detector head and the airblow triggered a "swabbing" and it finally went off.

Often those detectors wait for a moment if there is a second triggering and then they finally go into alarm mode. Because if the detectors went off right away, it was not from the blast in the sense of the smoke or dust, it was because the already filled detector head was retriggered at that moment.

I noticed many optical sensors won´t go off if you but the bell with the smoke inside on the detector right away. It often is the moment when you pull it downwards. By doing that you create vortexes that finally trigger it.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

...

Correct me if I´m wrong but did the detectors just went off when they blasted the door? Then, it could be that the smoke from the guns was already in the detector head and the airblow triggered a "swabbing" and it finally went off.

Often those detectors wait for a moment if there is a second triggering and then they finally go into alarm mode. Because if the detectors went off right away, it was not from the blast in the sense of the smoke or dust, it was because the already filled detector head was retriggered at that moment.

I noticed many optical sensors won´t go off if you but the bell with the smoke inside on the detector right away. It often is the moment when you pull it downwards. By doing that you create vortexes that finally trigger it.

This was my point as well, that the sudden cross draft likely triggered the detector. I actually didn't watch the video, I was just going off what the poster posted and was taking his word for it.

There's actually a number of factors in play here, and without knowing systemically what occurred it's hard to say for sure what took place. For one thing, there are local smoke detectors and then there are system connected detectors. A typical system in a high rise structure usually requires more than one device to go into alarm before the 'system' will go into alarm. A single device alarming will often only trigger a 'trouble' alert (yellow) vs. say a detector hit and a flow alarm simultaneously which would trigger a full system fire alarm (red) complete with central station call out (and a Fire Department response). There are a myriad of different kinds of devices which could be involved here including duct detectors, manual pull stations (from other occupants which just coincidentally were pulled when law enforcement breached the door), etc.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

A single device alarming will often only trigger a 'trouble' alert (yellow) vs. say a detector hit and a flow alarm simultaneously which would trigger a full system fire alarm (red) complete with central station call out (and a Fire Department response). There are a myriad of different kinds of devices which could be involved here including duct detectors, manual pull stations (from other occupants which just coincidentally were pulled when law enforcement breached the door), etc.

Here it depends on what the fire department want´s they have a framework of rules wich they can pick from. You are right, often system fire alarm centrals are programmed to wait for another detector from that group to trigger. Or not. I had many cases where the first real alarm (red) went right through the dialing unit to the firedepartment.

Here, the law says that if there is an alarm the color code has to be red. Only pre-alarms (maybe that´s what you mean?) or faults can be yellow/orange.

Those manual alarm boxes that you smash in are the only ones that are allowed to have the outgoing alarm delayed here. Like you said, there are myriad of coupling devices:

-Fire resistant doors that close
-Elevator de-smokeing
-In-duct detectors
-Ramps, gates and bollards to move up or down depending what you want
-Even laser detectors when you have a huge open building. You basically turn the building into one huge optical smokedetector.

Sounds like you did that for a living, like I did in early 2000.

If this is a central fire system there will be an event log, you could basically proof if the detectors sensed something before they blew up the doors. If you had access to it....

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
Bombshell?

Mandalay Bay Shooting Body Camera Footage Released: No Broken Windows Reported

It appears that the cops found the guns set up by the window, but the windows were not broken.

Did the official narrative just take a fatal head shot? This means the windows must have been broken later.

There is no broken glass to be seen and there no mention of it. You also don't hear anyone stepping on it which is a pretty distinctive sound. That would kill the lone gunman theory in my mind.

I have never been able to explain the actions of the helicopters in the area that night flying in places well out their ordinary patterns and hovering over the Delano with their transponders off. There is also the prop wash above the security camera where you can plainly see the aviation fuel tanks. Why would a chopper hover in that area? They are not supposed to hover anywhere by regulation.

The Saudi connection has been "debunked" so many times it makes me suspicious. Also the very same type of high-end chopper that was used by the aviation company for helicopter tours several were also sold to the Saudis. They are extraordinarily quiet.

The other big connection was the Saudi coup happening right after Las Vegas. Saudi owners in the top 7 floors of the Mandalay etc. Too many coincidences there and not enough proof elsewhere. The question remains open so far as I'm concerned.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Normally I would doubt any Saudi involvement because I honestly don't believe Trump would stay quiet about it. However...

In another thread here (authored by yours truly), a highly volatile one I might add, about an only indirectly related topic, someone mentioned an interesting point. The point was that Trump suddenly went (strangely) silent on the draining the swamp subject for a while. So, hold this thought for a moment while I address something else.

No matter how the LV investigation was handled, or by whom, if the Saudis had some role in it the CIA / NSA would know about it...and likely so would Trump. They might not do anything (for whatever reason), but they would almost certainly know.

Now back to the first point. If some big conspiracy did go down in DC, and they did manage to convince Trump to back off (even temporarily) this event could very well be directly connected, and may even be the direct reason. Now, I am NOT suggesting anyone silenced Trump in order to attack LV, not at all. However, it could be that whatever they tried to get him to back off of didn't go as planned resulting in the LV tragedy...and maybe the shooting was a diversion for whatever that was.

Interesting.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
Bombshell?

Mandalay Bay Shooting Body Camera Footage Released: No Broken Windows Reported

It appears that the cops found the guns set up by the window, but the windows were not broken.

Did the official narrative just take a fatal head shot? This means the windows must have been broken later.

Ok folks, the ZeroHedge article posted by AndyFromMichigan is worth reading, but I urge everyone to read the comments, because maybe ten comments in (with the comments displayed by oldest first), a poster called JSBach1 does a fantastic analysis of the pictures posted a while back (January I think?).

This person is ON IT. JSBach comes to the conclusion on one set of pictures that it's supposedly displaying the entry door to the suite, but shows from the pictures how that cannot be.

I havent finished reading JSBach's photo comments yet but wanted to run over here and get you all to look at it and post your thoughts.

a reply to: KansasGirl

There were things about those pics that didn't jibe but I couldn't put my finger on what.
Too tired to look to follow all that now but will tomorrow when fresh.
Thanks!

double post

triple post?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Wow...a triple!

People get bonuses for those you know.

Can you do a Grand Slam?