Dementia

I have seen articles on how anticholinergic drugs can unbalance neurochemistry leading to higher than desired Dopamine in relation to Acetylcholine. I have posted about this in the past. I found this new article that shows that these meds can make risk higher even many years after using them. Some of these are over the counter, some are prescribed for people with depression and others possessing this property are integrated into many medicines.

Remember, to make acetylcholine, you need to ingest choline, you need the acetyl group or foods or microbes that can help us produce the acetyl group. so eat more eggs and have some pickles on your hamburger. The majority of people can also create choline from trimethylglycene also referred to as betain found in some vegetables like spinach and beets. Spinach and beets are kind of high in oxylates which can lead to kidney stones and can increase some clotting disorders.

Now remember, risk is higher of getting alzheimer disease if you do not make much of an enzyme to break things down or eat certain foods. So it is an interaction between your metabolism and diet that is important with this. Most people on these anticholinerogenic meds are on them to treat symptoms. Symptoms can come from various causes, try to find the cause and correct it instead of treating the symptom. Most dietary changes to fix problems are not overwhelming changes, slight modification of diet can help.

medicalxpress.com...


Here is some other info I have collected on anticholinergic drugs.

www.consultant360.com...

www.sciencedaily.com...

Here is another interesting article that just came out for you baking soda fans.

medicalxpress.com...

Now remember, baking soda can be used as a medicine to treat some diseases. Like any medicine, you need to use it properly and for the right disease. I like how this explains the method of action though.

I know I am off topic in my own thread, but remember, alzheimer is related to inflammation somewhat. I do not know if it will help to use baking soda though.

Sodium bicarbinate is used by the liver to neutralize stomach acid before going into the intestine, the body can make more acid if it can be neutralized. So for some people sodium bicarbonate can be bad, it can be good for others. I tend to use minerals for controling my autoimmune issues. This sounds promising here, but in the article it does not say what dose is needed to accomplish what they found. I am not going to pay for the whole article, shortly someone will write an article adressing this that has purchased the article and has more knowledge on this subject than I do. I can wait.

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Dammit, can´t remember what i wanted to write....

Oh man, this doesn´t sound good either for, in the light of recent discoveries and my ancestors mental health state during dawn of life:

Now remember, risk is higher of getting alzheimer disease if you do not make much of an enzyme to break things down or eat certain foods. So it is an interaction between your metabolism and diet that is important with this.

So basically, if someone is already in the risk group for either dementia or alzheimer, this above ability is even more crucial?

@DerBeobachter
It´s only funny until you get to know both diseases.

a reply to: rickymouse

Thanks, I have shared your links with my sister's partner. My sister has recently been diagnosed with Alzheimer and is considering stopping treatment. She has been told that it is particularly aggressive and she has made end of life plans (83). They are giving away their animals (except one cat) and putting their house on the market to move into an assisted living facility.
I am always hopeful for a miracle but, if she could stay around a bit longer and be happy and have a quality of life that would be the best outcome of course.

a reply to: rickymouse

BDNF
brain derived neurotropic factor. This protein, produced like a hormone in the brain, has been found to reverse lesions on the hippocampus associated with alzheimers and dementia. Turmeric, with black pepper and a good fat ie coconut oil, or avocado oil combine to remove the amyloid plaque also associated with the aforementioned.

The most recent human studies suggest mitigation with supplementation of the above, may negate the need for a cure.

eta: oddly enough, bdnf production is tied entirely to diet and excercise. Foods like coffee fruit, grape seeds, broccoli and lions mane mushroom all aid in the production.

Dementia and Alzheimers like many degenerative diseases seem to have their foundation in the modern convience diet and lifestyle.

a reply to: rickymouse

I don't know if I believe this yet. Anticholinergics have been pretty widespread for a long time now. Many other drugs like antihistamines have an anticholinergic vector. From what I have seen so far, they have mentioned stomach acid and bladder control preparations. Maybe it is only a specific group of chemicals responsible? Perhaps some of these are neurotoxic and the rest aren't.

a reply to: BlueJacket

It is not always what we eat that can lead to problems, it can be what we do not eat. Coffee can help with acetylcholine which is a sort of neurotransmitter. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

A lot of foods we eat have the Ummami taste, glutamates. Too much glutamates can increase dopamine. Free and bound glutamates are actually good for people in appropriate amounts, but that is related to epigenetic factors. Some foods are naturally high in glutamates, like peas and tomatoes. Too much not only can cause dementia, they can trigger autoimmune issues.

The feel good drug has to be balanced with acetylcholine to work properly. If both levels get too high, that can lead to parkinson disease, moderation in diet needs to be observed.

I liked what you wrote, I actually learned a little more from the post, it gave me ideas of other ways to look at things. Here is an article that is relevant. a chemical found in parsley, celery, and oregano can help with these things. www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Piperidine found in black pepper is a neuro-modulator, but I do not know how it would actually effect alzheimer disease.

Well, I just checked, I guess it does go into the brain and acts as an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor to keep the acetylcholine from breaking down. www.hindawi.com... You are correct with the black pepper connection. Adding too much choline to the diet is not good sometime, it is sometimes better to block the acetylcholine from being broken down. some foods and medications promote the creation of acetylcholinesterase so it breaks down acetylcholine which leads to calming and lessens a person's ability to reason properly. Kind of makes me think so many entry level meds given first to treat diseases by doctors block our ability to assess side effects properly. Blocking acetylcholine makes a person more apt to believe something someone tells them because they cannot think properly.

I have to add, Sage actually helps to increase reasoning ability by increasing acetylcholine in the brain and it has other moderating effects which increase memory retreval and creation.

I worked for years in a dementia care home...diet plays such a big role in dementia specifically the difference seen when sugar is completely removed from a person with dementia's diet. Science seems to be making more and more progress, I can't help but believe they soon will find a treatment to prevent, slow down or even reverse this horrible disease.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Something to consider

a reply to: verschickter

Yeah, when you can't remember what you should eat to keep remembering then it hits you harder.

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Something to consider

So, when you get alzheimer's and you forget to eat, you are self medicating?

a reply to: rickymouse

interestingly enough, sage has been used in some bdnf studies and is included in a preparation Dr. Perlmutter pioneered.

Sage has been used for centuries in Europe as a memory aid and also has a powerful action on the liver. A side not, nursing mothers would want to avoid sage as it dries up breast milk.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: rickymouse

I don't know if I believe this yet. Anticholinergics have been pretty widespread for a long time now. Many other drugs like antihistamines have an anticholinergic vector. From what I have seen so far, they have mentioned stomach acid and bladder control preparations. Maybe it is only a specific group of chemicals responsible? Perhaps some of these are neurotoxic and the rest aren't.

I have taken some of the anticholinergic meds and I know that they all seem to effect your thinking negatively. Stuff like beta blockers and benedryl make me kind of dopey. The inhaler for asthma is bad too. The thing about anticholinergic meds is they actually make it harder to understand that you are messed up. I pay attention, I needed a clear head when I had my business and noticed some of the ones I took on the list made me goofed up and I could not organize the crews and jobs as well.

originally posted by: TNMockingbird
a reply to: rickymouse

Thanks, I have shared your links with my sister's partner. My sister has recently been diagnosed with Alzheimer and is considering stopping treatment. She has been told that it is particularly aggressive and she has made end of life plans (83). They are giving away their animals (except one cat) and putting their house on the market to move into an assisted living facility.
I am always hopeful for a miracle but, if she could stay around a bit longer and be happy and have a quality of life that would be the best outcome of course.

My mother died from this terrible disease.

I took her to the head of UCLA Alzheimer's unit.

I begged the man in charge to fix my mother.

He looked me right in the eye and said,

"If there was anything I could do, I would of done it for my own mother".

So sorry for your sis...

a reply to: rickymouse
Seems not being able to break down stuff is connected to this, that´s what I ment.

I´ll have to record a video where I explain everything to myself "Listen up sieve-head..." . Problem being, what if I forget that it exists..

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: rickymouse

interestingly enough, sage has been used in some bdnf studies and is included in a preparation Dr. Perlmutter pioneered.

Sage has been used for centuries in Europe as a memory aid and also has a powerful action on the liver. A side not, nursing mothers would want to avoid sage as it dries up breast milk.

You mean like this article I had in my bookmarks under chicken soup? www.sciencedaily.com...

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: rickymouse
Seems not being able to break down stuff is connected to this, that´s what I ment.

I´ll have to record a video where I explain everything to myself "Listen up sieve-head..." . Problem being, what if I forget that it exists..

You probably won't recognize the old fart in the video. I knew two people well who had alzheimer disease. Both seemed to think they were teenagers and talked about being back on the farm or living at their parents home. I do not know what they saw when they looked in the mirror. The one stayed with us while she was waiting for a place in assisted living specializing in alzheimer people. She could not remember her friends phone numbers, yet she could dial them easily. She knew the pattern pressing the buttons yet but not the number. Kind of interesting, pattern recognition was in a different part of the brain. If it was not for her conversations, a person would not know anything was wrong with her. But she thought she was sixteen again and wanted to go go go. I brought her to the cemetary to see her dad and ma's graves and she was surprised that there were brothers and sisters dead.

a reply to: rickymouse

Scopolamine is a strong one. It looks to me like one of these drugs might actually be neurotoxic. If it kills the nerve cell the effects are permanent. How else can you suffer damage from something taken 10 years earlier? Maybe the damage is cumulative. It could even be something that used to be popular but is no longer sold much today.

a reply to: rickymouse hey Rick, Thanks!! Keep it.

And the same to all the excellent responses