Police Threaten Arrest If Citizens Speak Out Against the State-Sanctioned Death of Baby Alfie Evans

a reply to: ScepticScot

Same laws that turned off the kid's life support perchance?

Same laws that stopped the parents taking the kid home, thus being able to possibly remove him to Italy?

Got to love those laws, there just champion really!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

But our oppressive government that likes to meddle in affairs where they have no right to be somehow do know what's best?

Have to admire your level of confidence in totalitarian self-serving money grabbing bastards really.

LoL

They were not involved, you appear to be on a delusional thought patth that is nothing to do with the child's care and more about simply having a pop at the government whom most of us dislike.

Perhaps the doctors are out to kill every one, or perhaps, you are wrong..

I know which I think..

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

Same laws that turned off the kid's life support perchance?

Same laws that stopped the parents taking the kid home, thus being able to possibly remove him to Italy?

Got to love those laws, there just champion really!

In the opinion of the doctors who treated him and the judges who heard the evidence continued life support was not in his interest.

You opinion is based on what?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

Same laws that turned off the kid's life support perchance?

Same laws that stopped the parents taking the kid home, thus being able to possibly remove him to Italy?

Got to love those laws, there just champion really!

In the opinion of the doctors who treated him and the judges who heard the evidence continued life support was not in his interest.

You opinion is based on what?

Internet gossip and weird conspiracies I'd guess..

No response as to why keep a child alive who has zero quality of life...Sad really, pushing all the govenment crap but actually showing no care for the child..

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps the parents should have been allowed to pursue other avenues?

There is no conspiracy, the wee guys dead because bureaucratic retards stood in the way of the parent's wishes and perhaps Italian doctors could do what ours could not!

Never know now, or at least the kid sure wont.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Mclaneinc

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps the parents should have been allowed to pursue other avenues?

There is no conspiracy, the wee guys dead because bureaucratic retards stood in the way of the parent's wishes and perhaps Italian doctors could do what ours could not!

Never know now, or at least the kid sure wont.

No they couldn't the Italian doctors even confirmed there was no alternative treatment.

And no it had nothing to do with bureaucracy either.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Delusional?

If my kid's welfare is not my concern, and ultimately hedges on the authorities decisions, then what's the darn point in the next generation???

I think, i don't require the government to think fo me or my family........EVER!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Mclaneinc

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps the parents should have been allowed to pursue other avenues?

There is no conspiracy, the wee guys dead because bureaucratic retards stood in the way of the parent's wishes and perhaps Italian doctors could do what ours could not!

Never know now, or at least the kid sure wont.

Nope..The Italians were only offering palliative care and the parents plea to the Pope was purely for time and I'd hope that it wasn't for divine intervention...

There was no cure out there, fact they all agreed, the child in normal circumstances would never have survived so to say it was killed is a bit wrong, forcing the child to be alive with no care as to what is actually going to happen in the future is a grasp at straws and I'd rather the thought was aimed toward the child and not as sympathy for the parents. This went through months and months of medical evidence, don't you think if the cure or semi cure was out there it would not have been found

You would have had billionaires queuing to help that child if help was there...People are not monsters...

a reply to: andy06shake

It was not the government it was the courts and the medical team who made the decision.

What qualifies you to question this decision and argue they were wrong?

Going to Italy would have made no difference, it could have just slowed his death that little bit more. Honestly why do you think he should have gone to Italy

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Mclaneinc

Delusional?

If my kid's welfare is not my concern, and ultimately hedges on the authorities decisions, then what's the darn point in the next generation???

I think, i don't require the government to think fo me or my family........EVER!

Why do you keep returning to the government, apart from making sure Human Rights were not breached there was not intervention by the government, the choices were all decided by incredibly talented professionals who agonised over this for months.

That's why I use the term delusional, because you keep veering away from the kids care to pop at the authorities when they had little of no input...

As parents we have the right to fight for our kids, I know I've done it for the last 10yrs with my daughter BUT as with anything we can as parents become too clouded with the issue and miss the bigger point...

Its knowing when to take advice and when to fight and making sure neither affects the quality of the childs life in a harmful way..

You lot make me sick.

Fcking disgusting.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

"and I'd hope that it wasn't for divine intervention"

Wish in one hand, crap in the other, i think we both know which one would fill up first.

People have always been monsters, especially people in power.

The Italian doctors were trying to help, we let the kiddie die in a hospital bed.

Pertaining to the above and back to the hand thingamabob, which one fills up fist?

Monsters are people I'm afraid.

For 18 pages this goes on another 100 perhaps, there people out there whether it be for sport or were taught that way or perhaps just ignorant who are missing the point of the controversy. A branch of government took a decision away from the parents of a baby, a minor who the parents were responsible for. We should not care if there was a chance the child would have survived the trip or no cure was found in Italy... It was and should have been the parents choice.... Instead the government intervened said there was no hope superseded parental rights and killed the child..

That is the point folks. Trying to Justifying that action makes me wonder a little if you have children, or again just arguing for sport, or god forbid you think it’s ok, for governments to decide if we live or die.

Just saying. Ok now I am really outta here the tone in here already is suspect for the sportsman troll crowd.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Government/courts = Tomato/Tomato.

Simple really.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It would have been undue suffering to have him moved. It boils my piss to see threads like this, 95% of people in this thread don't have a clue what they're talking about.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Government/courts = Tomato/Tomato.

Simple really.

Not really but if that is your level of understanding of courts and government then I cannot really expect you to even begin to grasp something as complex as the ethical dilemmas that come with switching off a child’s life support...

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

That's because there is no ethical dilemma and should be the parents choice alone.

Anything else is ethically spurious at best.

My level of understanding tells me that at least.

I think it should open the debate more on assisted suicide.
You wouldn't let a dog continue to suffer but we allow our loved ones to suffer and pump them full of drugs to survive.
It is a sad story all around but I agree if anyone threatens NHS staff with violence throw the book at them.

a reply to: andy06shake

Okay what about people who refuse their kids a blood transfusion? Should we do nothing and let kids die?.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It would have been undue suffering to have him moved. It boils my piss to see threads like this, 95% of people in this thread don't have a clue what they're talking about.

I think ignorance is a big part of this but another’s part is to score a point against arguments for socialised health care.

Ignorance though seems to be the main one.

People who think in black and white and just don’t have understanding or experience to see the grey thst comes with this massive ethical questions.

It’s actually a really intedting ethical debate to have about switching off life support from a health care perspective but it’s not one thst can ever be had on ATS where the ethics of it seems to be swapped for politics and point scoring.