Why The Use Of Online DNA Testing May Not Be The Smartest Thing to Do.

Part of my job is to collect evidentiary evidence for forensic purposes. The collection of DNA that will be entered into CODIS is something that I do not take lightly. I realize the importance of the evidence I collect, for the innocent, as well as the guilty. I also realize that DNA information in the wrong hands could be your worse nightmare.

The United States national DNA database is called Combined DNA Index System (CODIS). It is maintained at three levels: national, state and local. ... As of March 2011, 361,176 forensic profiles and 9,404,747 offender profiles have been accumulated, making it the largest DNA database in the world.

en.wikipedia.org...

While there are many that think the way they were able to catch a serial killer, through the use of familial DNA, is a testimony to the power and the importance of new technology in our lives, and that it is a wonderful thing, I think it is something that should give us all pause, and that we should think really hard about not just the potential, but to all the places it could ultimately lead.

I know there are many that will think that if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about. For those, I would ask them to think about how DNA evidence can be manipulated, how long it can last, and how it can be used against even those that are innocent.

I think this is more than a slippery slope. This is a cliff that many innocent people may find themselves at the precipice.

Golden State Killer Caught By the Use of Genealogy. DNA

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

That’s a great article from LiveScience

If the government wants our DNA they could easily get it from Blood tests and donations through the medical field. Samples can be sent in already as long as they do not disclose the name of the patient.

I worry that they have been collecting DNA through hospitals and doctors for a long time.
In fact, I would be surprised if it wasn't happening.
The number of criminal convictions based solely on DNA evidence is also a nightmare.
How the hell does anyone know for certain they aren't being paid off to get certain results?
Who can verify that DNA matches?
A single source has been sufficient to put people in prison for life.
It is too easily manipulated.

a reply to: rickymouse

But much more cost effective and less scrutiny with those who are willing to pay for this service. I mean if we're worried about the potential for a cop to plant a gun or drugs, what power could one hold over you with your DNA.

"No, no, no paperwork, just... just sprinkle some crack and DNA on him. Let's get out of here."

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'll never use a private company DNA thing, but the UK authorities already have my DNA, taken under duress even though I was released without charge after investigation. It works as well, I know people who've been arrested for one thing, then a few weeks later arrested for something they'd forgotten about after the police found a match on their database.

In some parts of Britain, barber shops and hair salons are getting their trash bins raided for the hair so in a burglary or whatever they throw it all over the crime scene.

They will have to pry my DNA from my cold, dead hands or a toothbrush, a snot rag or off the rim of a coffee cup!

LINK

The following list shows some common sources of DNA evidence:

A weapon, such as a baseball bat, fireplace poker or knife, which could contain sweat, skin, blood or other tissue
A hat or mask, which could contain sweat, hair or dandruff
A facial tissue or cotton swab, which could contain mucus, sweat, blood or earwax
A toothpick, cigarette butt, bottle or postage stamp, all of which could contain saliva
A used condom, which could contain semen or vaginal or rectal cells
Bed linens, which could contain sweat, hair, blood or semen
A fingernail or partial fingernail, which could contain scraped-off skin cells

DNA Forensics

What is Touch DNA?

One such technology is called "Touch DNA" or "Contact Trace DNA." Touch DNA refers to the DNA that is recovered from skin (epithelial) cells that is left behind when a person touches or comes into contact with items such as clothes, a weapon, or other objects. A person sheds about 400,000 skin cells per day, but it is the lower skin cells that will provide the best DNA profile. These cells are typically recovered when force is used such as on the victim's clothes or at a crime scene after a struggle has occurred.

These epithelial cells can be lifted with a tape, swabbed with a Q-tip, or even scraped from the clothes of the victim, or objects. Even food can be scraped for skin cells. According to the Bode Technology Lab, as little as 5 to 20 skin cells are all that is required to obtain a Touch DNA sample.

We will all have our DNA info on some list or another pretty soon I think and there are just too many ways it can be used wrongly. Insurance companies can profile us by DNA indicators and employers could refuse to hire anyone whose DNA shows they are prone to or have a disease that may make them miss a lot of work. Lord only knows what creative ways it will be used against people in the future. Bad DNA, no kids for you, only the good DNA folks can have kids.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

We kinda had this conversation when 23 and Me came out. Uh, big data and machine learning algorithms are real (most call it “AI” which is a shame because it is not). Anyway, yeah, knowledge is money so give data, which can be turned into knowledge, away for free!

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

So are you like 'our own personal Dexter'?

Well I’d have to say I don’t really buy that the DNA ancestry reasearching was really and truly set up to trace genealogy. There’s the potential for it to fall into the the wrong hands or the hands of forensic scientists looking to put a match to a suspect. Not only that, with the familial thing, they can get a close relationship keyed into your distant relative who did it, even if you yourself thought it was too risky to ever do.
I did a thread on the above example
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: rickymouse

But much more cost effective and less scrutiny with those who are willing to pay for this service. I mean if we're worried about the potential for a cop to plant a gun or drugs, what power could one hold over you with your DNA.

"No, no, no paperwork, just... just sprinkle some crack and DNA on him. Let's get out of here."

Almost my whole family has gotten the DNA ancestry done and I utilize the gene apps to do research. I paid for well over half the tests myself. It will keep the grandkids from getting in trouble, they know their DNA is on record.

Most people do not want to get the DNA done because they fear they will find out they are not related to who they are supposed to be related to. People have always fooled around, and women have been raped or forced for thousands of years. Some women are afraid what may come up and same with some guy. A guy finds out he is the father of someone from a different woman he is married to while they were married. A husband finds his kid is not his.

For a lot of people this is the real reason they do not want testing done.

a reply to: Blaine91555
I bet every baby that’s born is having it’s DNA collected

originally posted by: Blaine91555
They will have to pry my DNA from my cold, dead hands or a toothbrush, a snot rag or off the rim of a coffee cup!

Lol, a snatch squad of cops all riot geared up hold you down and pull some hairs off your head if you refuse when arrested in their custody in the UK.
...and even if you are released without charge you stay on the database. That is Britain today.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yes true.. it def shows who your parents are ( or not, if they don’t pop up)
Years ago also, it was quite common for a young unwed woman to hide her pregnancy and the baby gets passed off as a sister.

Glad you brought up this topic, I'm interested in hearing everyone's thoughts here.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
I know there are many that will think that if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about. For those, I would ask them to think about how DNA evidence can be manipulated, how long it can last, and how it can be used against even those that are innocent.

Can you be more specific?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
I think this is more than a slippery slope. This is a cliff that many innocent people may find themselves at the precipice.

What is your conclusion about this case? How did you arrive at it?

As an aside, I'm waiting for the day where we'll see messages like: "want to make your Facebook more secure? Send us a DNA sample!" *wink wink*

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'll never use a private company DNA thing, but the UK authorities already have my DNA, taken under duress even though I was released without charge after investigation. It works as well, I know people who've been arrested for one thing, then a few weeks later arrested for something they'd forgotten about after the police found a match on their database.

In some parts of Britain, barber shops and hair salons are getting their trash bins raided for the hair so in a burglary or whatever they throw it all over the crime scene.

I can’t see cut hair having DNA. DNA would only be in the hair follicle (bulb) pulled from the head. You can test for toxins in cut hair, like if a victim was poisoned.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
No. Dexter is too extreme.

Put me between Bones and SVU. :

I use Ancestry for genealogy as well as a research tool, but I get creeped out at the thought of providing them with my DNA. Maybe I've watched too much SciFi. I also figure it's a straight pipeline to the Mormons...they may have my family tree, but they can do without my DNA.

a reply to: rickymouse

I'm sure that may be the case for some, and if it suits you and your family I'm all for you doing it. To me personally, the value of leverage in our society is greater than the benefit it would provide me. Even those who seem benevolent want something out life, climbing ladders takes more than just a physical action.

That being said if somebody high enough wants to get to you or use you then any resistance would be futile anyway.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I worry that they have been collecting DNA through hospitals and doctors for a long time. In fact, I would be surprised if it wasn't happening. The number of criminal convictions based solely on DNA evidence is also a nightmare. How the hell does anyone know for certain they aren't being paid off to get certain results?

You could say the exact same thing about fingerprints.