Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history

a reply to: Byrd
From your links,

The children were mostly not locals, or slaves. Therefore, it's most probable to sacrifice them.

Although it is difficult to determine sex based on skeletal remains at such a young age, preliminary DNA analysis indicates that both boys and girls were victims, and isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire.

Discover an ancient throne and ceremonial hall unearthed in Peru.

Evidence for cranial modification, practiced in some highland areas at the time, also supports the idea that children were brought to the coast from farther-flung areas of Chimú influence.

a reply to: Byrd

Thank you for the extra links, Byrd.

a reply to: noonebutme

One could argue - without their belief in a deity, would they have still murdered those children? I would say no, because had logic or common sense or even a basic understanding of science been present they would never have done it as it would make no difference. It was their incorrect belief in the supernatural that helped drive their wickedness.

And I would say their beliefs are either an
excuse to do what they wanted to do and
would have done any way. Or they were
way more convinced then you are of
the importance of blood sacrifice.

I think you're wrong.

One thing I don't believe is that they
weren't as intelligent as we are.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
a reply to: Byrd
From your links,

The children were mostly not locals, or slaves. Therefore, it's most probable to sacrifice them.

Although it is difficult to determine sex based on skeletal remains at such a young age, preliminary DNA analysis indicates that both boys and girls were victims, and isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire.

Discover an ancient throne and ceremonial hall unearthed in Peru.

Evidence for cranial modification, practiced in some highland areas at the time, also supports the idea that children were brought to the coast from farther-flung areas of Chimú influence.

The most likely scenario is that they were given up by parents and their community to represent their community at the sacrifice. So the community would then receive the benefit of their deaths.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
a reply to: Byrd
From your links,

The children were mostly not locals, or slaves. Therefore, it's most probable to sacrifice them.

Although it is difficult to determine sex based on skeletal remains at such a young age, preliminary DNA analysis indicates that both boys and girls were victims, and isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire.

Discover an ancient throne and ceremonial hall unearthed in Peru.

Evidence for cranial modification, practiced in some highland areas at the time, also supports the idea that children were brought to the coast from farther-flung areas of Chimú influence.

While not local to the site of the offering, all of the children involved were still part of the Chimu' culture which was a pretty large area of around 600 miles of the Peruvian coast from North to South. As Byrd points out, they were likely gifted by their families to be used in the ritual so that any benefits of the ritual would include the area of the Chimu Empire that they called home.

originally posted by: gort51
a reply to: rickymouse

Well said....

How do these experts "Know" it was a sacrifice?

They Don't, they are just guessing.

There's a huge difference between just making up some random guesswork that borders on complete fabrication and making an educated guess based on the evidence at hand and data extrapolated through use of the scientific method.


If this were a random one off site with no precedent then your rueful point of view may have a bit of validity. But it isn't a random one off aside from the sheer magnitude of death at this particular site.

How do we know, that this may be a result of a tribal attack?

You seem to have a rather myopic view of the people in question. They weren't some uncivilized tribe. This was a fully functioning civilization that managed to utilize science and engineering to make create bountiful farmland in a desert that shouldn't be able to support much life at all let alone large scale farming. Yet they accomplished this and much more as their empire was second in size at a little over 600 square miles, only to the Inca who in turn conquered the Chimu in the 1470's. All of that aside, it's incredibly unlikely that an outside attack on the Chimu capital would take shape in what we are seeing at this site. The only wounds suffered by the children were uniform throughout all of them and consistent with the types of ritual sacrifice used by the Inca, Maya and Aztec where they had their hearts removed while still alive. That's not something one takes the time to do in the midst of a "tribal attack".

Being skeptical is great. Questioning the information is crucial and can give greater understanding and insight if those questions lead the research into unforeseen directions. But skeptical questioning without engaging in your own due diligence doesn't go very far if it all stops after the question and the conclusion that the archaeologists and anthropologists working the site are just running amok with purposely skewed or incorrect information. The answers are actually out there. You just have to care enough to actually look. It's lazy scholarship to begin with the opinion that the science is fundamentally flawed and literally making up answers via guesswork and not bother to fact check.

How do we know, that this is not a result of some sort of disease or infection or poisoning.

Because if something was that virulent and that pervasive through the local community, there s no way it would be limited to children of a fairly specific and narrow age range. Its not as if the community could afford to kill such a large number of Llama or that all of the children died simultaneously either. Occam's razor... the simplest explanation is the most likely explanation and your queries make for far more complicated solutions. Particularly in the context of the culture and the time period in question.

How do we know, that this same burial site was not used for months, or years, or decades.

That is a pretty easy aspect of this to falsify using the scientific method. All of the remains were from the same layer and burials during the time of the Chimu Empire and earlier under their predecessors, the Moche, did not include Llama's but did include grave goods. The opposite of what we see here. The cost to the community in sacrificing adolescent Llama's was pretty significant as the Llama's were used for transporting goods as well as for meat and fur. Giving up such a valuable resource was a really big deal for the local populace and they wouldn't have done so for every single death.

Perhaps the young Llamas were revered, to carry the soul of the child to the beyond or something.

Then it should be relatively easy to show us where in the record that there is evidence of this belief and practice. But there isn't any evidence of such. This type of ritual is extremely uncommon. Especially at this magnitude of sacrifice. There are earlier examples of very similar sacrificial rituals, but only a couple. There was another dated to about 800 years ago which is about 250 years prior to the sacrifice of 140 children. In this earlier example, it was a group of 40 children and 74 Llama were found in the village of Huanchaquito. At roughly the same time (800 years ago) at another site near Chan Chan a group of 12 children and 20 Llama's were also sacrificed. All 3 examples demonstrate sacrifices performed in the same fashion which has striking similarities to Inca sacrifices that were performed by the Inca prior to the imminent death or birth of an Emperor.

The red colour may be there way of sending off dead tribe members......red is the colour of death.
In Europe Black is the colour of death, in China, White is the colour of death.

So scientists who are extremely familiar with the cultures in question are just making things up and not providing educated replies informed by their knowledge based on first hand studies, yet you are somehow making a legitimate analogy by claiming that red is the color of death despite providing nothing to support your arbitrary claim? No double standards here folks! You don't state that "in this culture, red symbolizes death (there is nothing to support such a concept anyway)". You state it as though it is a verifiable fact. Even in the OP's source article that you take such umbrage towards, the archaeologists use qualifiers such as "could be, possibly, etc...

Removing the heart was also use by some Human tribes as a way of conquest, they removed hearts of dead people and ate them.

So where is the evidence that members of the Chimu Empire (not a tribe, an Empire stretching for 600 square miles up and down the Pacific Coast of Peru) were practicing ritual cannibalism? You feel that ritual cannibalism is a perfectly logical leap yet ritual sacrifice is somehow a ludicrous notion despite the evidence supporting it?

To conclude a "sacrifice" is jumping the gun.....a modern perception of what it "Might' be.

It's hardly jumping the gun. Especially when you immediately begin running with the whole "these damned archaeologists and anthropologists decided to run with confirmation bias and making crap up" narrative without actually supporting the hyperbolic conjecture you're utilizing in lieu of facts all the while not even noticing the hilarious irony of doing exactly what you accuse the team working this site of doing.

The burial and funerary practices of the Chimu and their predecessors, the Moche are known,as are the religious practices of both as well as surrounding cultures. There aren't nearly as many open ended questions as you make it out to be. Your entire response comes off as if you didn't bother to follow any of the links or engage in any due diligence at all beyond reading the thread title and foaming at the mouth about how ignorant archaeologists and anthropologists are by forcing an even more ignorant narrative down our throats. By jumping to your own conclusions, you bypass any actual information that could support the information in the article linked in the OP. That is what we call willful ignorance because you chose not to look at what the facts are and instead ran with your confirmation biases simply because you distrust science.

When walking/riding/driving or buying some spray to purposefully kill life... how large is that grave again? Humanity actually comes in many forms; despite all the "names".

There is a festival to eat dog; as dog is not seen as anything but a threat or "pig" in some cultural tradition... following evolution one would know why it is one of the first things to have it's ass kicked and taught to alert instead of be a "danger" que the post-acpocalptic movies of them hunting in packs around cities like woles but yet less cohesive in their loyalty. Wolves will like chickens obey a queen dogs will obviously hump it's seed and even lick itself in front of company anywhere it gets the chance. Dogs that have had that bred out of them? Are known as temple dogs... and it is shown on the tip of the tongue and the smile on their face.

Most are just mongrels mutts and hounds. Follow as many evolutionary cycles to "man" through the Hanuman evolutionary cycle and one can see why it was so difficult to adapt and grow out of all of that other life already present; to so much preditor and prey going on... apes will toss anything with a tail in an instant knowing they lost their monkey business hanging out in tree's called a tail.

Dogs and wolves can't climb them; foxes however are sort of both... the fox and the crow have in folklore been personified to enjoy many stories together and also play trickster from time to time.

Arachnids/orthropods have been around way way longer as the trilobyte shows on every shore known... even in space or clean rooms one is not free from spiders... they are not only on you and in you in some forms but floating in the space called memory... lol at quantum foam.

a reply to: BEBOG

a reply to: punkinworks10

Some questions are just better off when left unanswered. What the Hell bebog was going on about is a good example of that!

a reply to: punkinworks10


Seeing all life as equal... hard to do when one is "stuck" in egoism; yet in a bodhisatta form rolling/sliding through the earth... I have seen countless "babies/children" rolled and folded into the earth.

When one knows that this occurs at every step? All one can sort of do... is try not to ever take one. Of course; pure land... is soon invaded by ignorance of followers of even more delusion/hatred/greed.

The historical Buddha had the same issue; he let a "god" trick him into chasing who was building the house round after round; it was in the roots of name and form... and yet the roots in that land build it.

Round and round goes the many moons; emulate the suns and it burns all away.

Sorry for the pointing at what is seemingly futile; but hey feel free to turn your back on it the same as I did; seeing countless children folding into crevices like sand grains and yet trying to knit it together as a firmament.

That honestly; is all I see in the actions of others... houses of death and birth at every step; every moment and it is seemly ceaseless with no discernable beginning and the more one looks also no end.

God/Devil heaven/hell same thing to me... coins tossing from one skin to another running in and out of "children" until extinction... no matter the time frame; it always ends in one god/devil and their followers meeting and debating how to restart their broken stupid; instead of ceasing it.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

You think the white man never visited Peru? The white man created all the worlds religions.

These masonic sites like to ignore that fact though. The temple builders calling themselves gods, with their fancy riding deer and pokey shineys.

In addition, many of the children were daubed with a bright red pigment made from cinnabar - most likely a part of the sacrificial ritual.

Cinnabar is the ore of mercury.

How much cinnabar did this culture use and did they ingest it. or did there priest class.

If you have ever heard the term Mad as a Hatter.
Acute mercury exposure has given rise to psychotic reactions such as delirium, hallucinations, and suicidal tendency.
en.wikipedia.org...

They kill babies in the past: how barbaric and sad!

We kill babies now: it's the women's right! bravo!

a reply to: ANNED

Realizing one has died countless times is no issue; realizing one is born at one's own leisure really depends on the family involved; The historical Buddha gave his son in such times? To dwell in the elements of fire, wind, water, and earth he never said anything about wood. Which the chinese see as the fifth element also equated as children.

The reason being is your body is the vehicle; one does not try to dominate their mind in a consciousness transference as that is seen as a dark art or black magic to take over that vessel as one's own. So of course the Buddha body is poison to any that attempt to do such... the mind is kept pure of all the lower sensory stains that inhabit those attached. The Sangha is any and all life that the pure voice flows through directly from the Dhammakaya, Shamboyga contains the forms, and Nibbana the pure land or unsullied mind that pervades all eight directions.

My apologies if such is not what you like to dip into your cup; however it is a story older than the first words... meaning at one time contact was the only thing occurring... then consciousness grasped; this was thought as awakening to life or being, the schools of Chan/Zen means that ALL speak creation at every moment that forms concept no matter how stupid one may think that contact is... like a hammer and nail if one can clearly listen? Will speak volumes as an intelligence to a mirror of ear that remains stainless. Too intently a listen..? Well watch your swing... or that may not end in something stainless, bent or dented.

The harmony plays on silent or not; observant or not, this is why there is said to be degrees to such awakening.

originally posted by: Disenchanted1
Very sad and pointless. I still think we have scum like this still on this earth doing nasty things today.

Oh yea my friend. Driven underground for sure yet hidden in plain sight.

a reply to: randyvs


Phoenicians, sea people, travelers, traders, exporters of and practitioners of child sacrifice like no other.

And if I am not mistaken the culture in question had their royal tombs discovered a few decades back and were basically Egyptian style take away the local style. Dead dogs and servants among the dead royals to help in the underworld.

a reply to: Logarock

Sounds a lot like the Most Dangerous Game cipher written by that damned Zodiac Killer doesn't it? Society of course see's what was once commonplace these days as insanity.

Of course in the realms known and unknown? Those left undisturbed do not know they are in such a state; to some that is a heaven disturbed however become the hells and then it goes into fighting and seeing who or what was the cause... seeing the who or what IS the cause so ceasing that of course only serves to bring peace.

There are of course better ways to help or serve the known and the unknown... hungry ghosts can be fed with incense and scented candles hell beings with a cup of rice and gods/titans etc just want devotion to their endless egos and do not care who it comes from. Animals and humans flow on on the arrow of time while the afore-mentioned do not as they are out of time or better put stuck in it.

Those awake to all of these realms know the comings and goings of these various beings... best to ignore all of them as they arise and grasp and of course attach based on their various appetites or hungers.

Politics and religion can be like a swarm of bees so trying not to poke that hornets nest in the face of others typically keeps things calm... forums are for debate and of course for true reason to occur, ration and logic must be seamlessly married into one whole.

Best to think of oneself as a an archer... the bow is there at any time; the arrow is the logic straight and true the point is the emotion reflected in the eye; the draw however is the actual pool of infinity once a reason to do or not do has been grasped what is actually reaped? Depends on how clear the sowing has been.

Many try to sow through others in various houses only to ease their own comfort; on the path such is to be avoided or else humility and humbleness is the poison before the arrow even gets threaded that fires incalculable ways before a true seat or aim is established. All that does is come back to bite later... however changes can be made as an individual to cease all of that backbiting so pain and suffering eases and all that takes is burying that self mistaken as a self until the true one shines no matter the darkness or snuffs out no matter the flame.

Skill and skillfulness, knower and known, in silence there is only chatter not self; impermanent and full of suffering... so how could one being help such unless to educate one how to get out of such? The teachings are already there and as a world turner; I can only point at footsteps of those thus gone.

Don't mind me; if how those in the past tried to take it to their graves; self and servants included? Taking the above is probably even more difficult to comprehend without direct experience or knowledge... having seen all of my past lives and in various forms of such?

Is where it becomes pointless to mention; as it is always the right now flowing on and on... the same can be said for everyone unless the monkey mind of grasping wants to reflect and fall in... falling back out however? Swim although monkeys may or may not know our word for it they know the motions for it when such occurs.

What about the theory I heard a number of times that this outpost of humanity was under severe stress from local climate change?

A decades-long drought with no end in sight had their leaders trying to please the deities with increasingly barbaric sacrificial ceremonies which, of course, were dismal failures and they ultimately had a choice of move or perish. Forced depopulation would have bought them some extra time too I suppose.

a reply to: Pilgrum

Sometimes when the mind contains poison the best antidote is to not scratch at it.

If the mind is full of the worlds hypochondriac from somewhere out there? Where do you think the cure lay?

There never was a sickness to begin with; however perpetuation for whatever reason? Is where the true sickness lays.

When mind is full empty the cup; when mouth is full watch your foot...