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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: LaBTop
For WTC 7 where is the video proof of bombs detonating. The proof of pressure waves with the force to cut columns in the video and audio record. Why is there no seismic record of detonations? Why is there no ejection of material. Didn’t you claim the same devices were used for all the WTC buildings? Why are the collapses different?
How would the integrity of the fantasy CD systems be maintained through building damage, jet impacts, and wide spread fires?
www.metabunk.org...
ae911-truths-wtc7-evaluation-computer-modelling-project.t5627/
By: benthamitemetric
First--the government account of WTC7 facilitated exactly zero invasions. No one knows or cares about WTC7 aside from some specialists in the engineering community (did you know it's actually a case study in a standard text on progressive collapses?) and it was never used by anyone in a high ranking government position as part of the case for any war, at least as far as I am aware. Moreover, the NIST report on WTC7 was published many years after the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The reason it is a topic loved by conspiracy theorists is because of the fact that exactly what happened in the building is unknowable (simply because the fire progression was unobservable--but more on that in the third point below). You are greatly overstating the importance of the building and of NIST's study of it.
Second--again, neither Hulsey nor Tony have proven anything about whether the omission of certain minor elements in the NIST model led to significant errors in NIST's conclusions. They did not even test NIST's modeled scenario. I've asked both you and Tony to specify how Hulsey could possibly come to a conclusion re the accuracy of NIST's scenario while not controlling for the most important factors that lead NIST to its conclusion (how the observed fire conditions damaged the lower 16 floors of the building over a 4.5 hour period). No answers have been forthcoming. Why? Because any interested, questioning citizen can easily see how this error in Hulsey's approach is, in fact, a fatal flaw that prevents him from honestly reaching his stated conclusion. (And, do I need to remind you that Hulsey explicitly stated his conclusion in this case long before he had even completed modeling around column 79?) As Mick has helpfully summarized, there are also additional flaws in Hulsey's approach.
Third--there is a huge difference between not being able to know exactly how the building collapsed and thinking that the building couldn't have collapsed without the use of demolition devices of some kind. NIST, Arup and WAI don't differ because they fundamentally disagree about anything; they differ in their conclusions only because they make different but reasonable assumptions about unknowable variables (most importantly--the exact heating scenario). The fact that they all differ on such assumptions and yet all come to the same overarching conclusion re the vulnerability of the building to a fire-induced progressive collapse is not something that calls that overarching conclusion into question. To the contrary, that they all arrived at the same overarching conclusion despite different approaches and assumptions about unknowable variables should greatly strengthen the confidence that any interested, questioning citizen should have in the validity of NIST's conclusion re fire being able to cause the collapse of the building. It also worth pointing out that Arup in particular was retained by the insurers of WTC7 in a multimillion dollar litigation against the owners, occupiers and designers of the building (among others). The plaintiffs in that case had hundreds of millions of reasons to uncover a plot to destroy the building and, instead, their experts offered a theory only of negligent design and construction.
Fourth--let's step back and sum up Hulsey's study and comments to date in context. At every level, Hulsey's approach and conclusions are highly suspect and, at least to this interested, questioning citizen, Hulsey's study does nothing to actually call into question the overarching conclusion reached by each of the three other studies; the only things Hulsey has called into question to date with his stated conclusions are his integrity and competence:
There is only a single study (Hulsey's) that purports to reach a conclusion contrary to what the other studies have concluded re the vulnerability of WTC7 to progressive collapse from reasonable fire scenarios.
Hulsey received a grant of $300,000+ from an organization (AE911Truth) that has for years dedicated itself to the theory that WTC7 could not have collapsed as a result of fire, and that same organization was explicit in wanting Hulsey's study to prove that when it chartered the study.
Hulsey made his bias in favor of his sponsor's desired conclusion crystal clear when he announced he reached that conclusion before even completing his modeling. (It doesn't help appearances that he initially announced that conclusion at a PR event hosted in NYC by AE911Truth.)
Each of the the NIST, Arup, and WAI studies were conducted by multiple PhDs with expertise in forensic engineering, tall building engineering or fire science, and the NIST WTC7 report was also independently peer reviewed by the Journal of Structural Engineering (whose editors and peer reviewers have similar levels of expertise), while not a single expert on forensic engineering, tall building engineering or fire science worked on Hulsey's study.
On top of coming to a different overall conclusion re the vulnerability of the building to fire, Hulsey also seemingly came to the indefensible conclusion (which points to a fundamental error in his approach) that there could be no local connection failures at all in the building!
Hulsey is also the only study author of the bunch to describe his conclusion in absolute terms, even when that means defying logic and the reality of his limited study to claim he proved a negative
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth provided funding to the University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF) to evaluate if fire caused the collapse of WTC 7 and to examine what may have occurred at 5:20 P.M. on September 11, 2001.
Therefore, the UAF research team evaluated the structural response due to the reported fire(s). A structural framing virtual model of WTC 7 was used to conduct the study. The reported failure was simulated using three-dimensional finite element computer models of the building. The research team studied the building’s response using two finite element programs, ABAQUS and SAP2000 version 18. At the micro level, three types of evaluations were performed. In plan-view, the research team evaluated:
1) The planar response of the structural elements to the fire(s) using wire elements;
2) The building’s response using the NIST’s approach with solid elements; and
3) The validity of NIST’s findings using solid elements.
At the macro-level, progressive collapse, i.e., the structural system’s response to local failures, is being studied using SAP2000 with wire elements, as well as with ABAQUS, and it is near completion. The findings thus far are that fire did not bring down this building.
Building failure simulations show that, to match observation, the entire inner core of this building failed nearly simultaneously.
AS: Dr. Hulsey, I think that is a very good update. You gave us your time frame. You told us some about what your findings were. I just want to know now, do you have any final thoughts or anything that you want to get out there to the audience that I didn't think to ask you today?
LH: Well, I don't know how well we're going to be able to do this, but it's my intention right now to show the building video as it's coming down and beside it, our anticipated failure type, with our building coming down in the same framework of the video, so you could see it coming down, and the time it takes for it come down, and the way it comes down, comparison one by one, those two side by side.
That's what I want to show. If this is really very, very good—and I anticipate it to be really good—then the layman can see, without having to worry about the science, here's what our analysis shows, here's what the building did.
www.metabunk.org...
ae911-truths-wtc7-evaluation-computer-modelling-project.t5627/
By: benthamitemetric
NIST, Arup and WAI don't differ because they fundamentally disagree about anything; they differ in their conclusions only because they make different but reasonable assumptions about unknowable variables (most importantly--the exact heating scenario). The fact that they all differ on such assumptions and yet all come to the same overarching conclusion re the vulnerability of the building to a fire-induced progressive collapse is not something that calls that overarching conclusion into question. To the contrary, that they all arrived at the same overarching conclusion despite different approaches and assumptions about unknowable variables should greatly strengthen the confidence that any interested, questioning citizen should have in the validity of NIST's conclusion re fire being able to cause the collapse of the building. It also worth pointing out that Arup in particular was retained by the insurers of WTC7 in a multimillion dollar litigation against the owners, occupiers and designers of the building (among others). The plaintiffs in that case had hundreds of millions of reasons to uncover a plot to destroy the building and, instead, their experts offered a theory only of negligent design and constr
www.wtc7evaluation.org...
Dr. Leroy Hulsey gave the following update on March 27, 2018:
To all who have been following the University of Alaska Fairbanks study on the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7:
First, I would like to thank you for your interest in and support of the study.
We had planned to release our findings for public review early this year. However, research often takes unexpected turns, and the more complicated the problem, the more difficult it is to predict the completion date. We are still in the process of studying hypothetical collapse mechanisms and attempting to simulate the building’s failure. Our goal is to determine, with a high degree of confidence, the sequence of failures that may have caused the observed collapse and to rule out those mechanisms that could not have caused the observed collapse.
We will release our findings for public review when we are sure we fully understand the mechanisms that are likely to have caused the observed collapse and those that clearly did not occur and could not have caused the observed collapse. We expect to publish our findings later this year, but we will refrain from naming a completion date, given the unpredictability of the research process.
Again, we thank you for your interest in our study and we appreciate your patience as we strive to bring a truly scientific answer to the important question of how WTC 7 collapsed on September 11, 2001.
Dr. J. Leroy Hulsey
Chair, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
University of Alaska Fairbanks
ine.uaf.edu...
May 1, 2015 - April 30, 2018
originally posted by: Jesushere
originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: LaBTop
For WTC 7 where is the video proof of bombs detonating. The proof of pressure waves with the force to cut columns in the video and audio record. Why is there no seismic record of detonations? Why is there no ejection of material. Didn’t you claim the same devices were used for all the WTC buildings? Why are the collapses different?
How would the integrity of the fantasy CD systems be maintained through building damage, jet impacts, and wide spread fires?
It truly breathtaking how you just ignore that NIST claims multiple floors and columns and steel beams/girders were collapsing before the Penthouse fell in on the eastside. Are just going to ignore that no windows broke when this was happening? There nothing to indicate collapse on the eastside no noise nothing?
The first sign of something was happening was a loud bang went off the Penthouse caved in.
Your nonsense needs to stop
originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: LaBTop
You think the University of Fairbanks University has any influence on the study? Not because of any conclusions. Because the study was going to be open, and follow a normal academic review process. A process that Husley has reneged on under the influence of AE? Doesn’t bode well in that people donated under false promises, the study/model will not be openly scrutinized, and the study is controlled by a biased group.