Nothing is faster than light - really?

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Phage

Yes my mistake. Photons in the quantum state can transmit the information faster than light.

Photons are always in a "quantum state." But yes, the particular quantum state of entangled particles is transmitted instantaneously but that is not information that can be used for communication (or any other purpose) on its own.

Your statement doesn't appear accurate. If you affect an entangled particle it would show that information. The first test I read they collided photons to transmit that information using a third particle.

originally posted by: Phage

Photons are always in a "quantum state." But yes, the particular quantum state of entangled particles is transmitted instantaneously but that is not information that can be used for communication (or any other purpose) on its own.

I have wondered about that. can not

Scientists entangled two pairs of vibrating particles separated in space, so that when one pair was forced to change its movement, the other pair did as well.

be turned into 0s and 1s?

a reply to: luthier

But you don't know the state of that particle until you "read" it.

To put it in binary terms, you cannot choose whether you are "sending" a 0 or a 1. That's why you need that "classical communication channel" your wiki link talks about.

So, in the experiment. They read the "sending" photon, and say (over the radio, to the receiving location) "your photon is now a 1", and sure enough, it is.

a reply to: Xtrozero
You can't know the state of the photon until you measure it.

originally posted by: Phage

So, in the experiment. They read the "sending" photon, and say (over the radio, to the receiving location) "your photon is now a 1", and sure enough, it is.

See, there is the problem. They need to speak faster...

You guys are over thinking it. It's simple. You create a matter anti matter reaction that is magnetically shielded. You then focus the energy with dilithium crystals into 2 streams that gets routed to the warp coils. You then clear the path ahead with a magnetic field produced from a deflector dish.

The really hard part is going faster than warp 9.9. You need borg tech for that and they are pure fiction.

Let us assume I am driving over the speed of light.
Do the headlights still work or are they now coming out of the rear?

a reply to: skunkape23

Christ what would be you stopping distance at that speed? LoL

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: skunkape23

Christ what would be you stopping distance at that speed? LoL

33 cubits.

Sighs!.......
if I throw a rock at you from miles away.
and you open your eyes just before it hits you.
you dont think it suddenly Jump't across the distances do you?
the same with light from stars.
the light did not wait for you to open your eyes!
it travels in a stream.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: luthier

But you don't know the state of that particle until you "read" it.

To put it in binary terms, you cannot choose whether you are "sending" a 0 or a 1. That's why you need that "classical communication channel" your wiki link talks about.

So, in the experiment. They read the "sending" photon, and say (over the radio, to the receiving location) "your photon is now a 1", and sure enough, it is.

That has nothing to do with the information being sent. That is like saying turn your radio on to channel 10. That is not the information you are looking for by turning on to channel 10. After the bell measurement is done that information is sent. The bell measurement is not the information being sent.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Let us assume I am driving over the speed of light.
Do the headlights still work or are they now coming out of the rear?

Yeah, coming out your rear and trying to catch up.

lol.

Ya gotta see it to believe it. The faster you go, the behinder it gets.

Comical.

It is true that we do not yet know how to make use of quantum entanglement for communications. But that doesn't change the fact that the entangled photons ARE communicating instantaneously independent of distance. When the wave function collapses for one, so does it for the other. So infinite speed. They are using some form of communication between them that is the one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Possibly through other dimensions. It's a beautiful hint of the wonders yet to be found.

a reply to: bluesjr

When the wave function collapses for one, so does it for the other.

Not exactly. As long as the particles are entangled there is actually only one wave function. But entanglement will be lost when the state of one of the particles is changed. The particles are not really communicating. It's more like they are sharing the function which described their state when they became entangled.

They are using some form of communication between them that is the one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Possibly through other dimensions.

How it occurs is indeed a puzzle. But what is remarkable that mathematics predicted that it would occur. And it does.

Math is cool. No matter how weird it gets.

You haven't seen a huskey under a toddlers highchair when the kid drops something.

a reply to: Phage

Oh I know. I wish I was better at it.
I read a book by Niles Bohr once and I had to skip past so many pages because it was filled with math. I just muttered something like I'll take your word for it Niles.

a reply to: johnb



Here is one I always think about. If you have two spaceships traveling in opposite directions at the speed of light, from each ships perspective, the other would appear to be traveling at twice the speed of light, in effect two objects in this universe would have a separation speed of 2X light speed. I know that technically they are not breaking the laws of physics, but its kind of weird.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: bluesjr

When the wave function collapses for one, so does it for the other.

Not exactly. As long as the particles are entangled there is actually only one wave function. But entanglement will be lost when the state of one of the particles is changed. The particles are not really communicating. It's more like they are sharing the function which described their state when they became entangled.

They are using some form of communication between them that is the one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Possibly through other dimensions.

How it occurs is indeed a puzzle. But what is remarkable that mathematics predicted that it would occur. And it does.

Math is cool. No matter how weird it gets.

I don't think you really grasp the a b c principle of how this works.

It doesn't matter if the particles are communicating that doesn't even make sense. What matters is the information that can be used by the observers. If the observers can use the information between points it's information. Kind of like how physics views packets of information.

You have an understanding of the math but like many scientists you don't ask what it means. This is what many qm physicists also feel when science uses the theories and math without trying to understand what they mean.

I can again tell you the classical methods of communicating where to look after the bell measurements are made to entangle the third particle are not the actual "message" the third particle is the message.

You can hold my feet to the fire over semantics and I am happy to say yes I chose the wrong words but I don't think you get the principle and what they are attempting beyond the encryption function that is already available.

The information itself the qubit is insant. Telling the operator what channel to find it on is not.

Those are not the same. Your argument appears misplaced. But I could be wrong.

a reply to: bluesjr

No physicist claims that nothing is faster than light Einstein's theory of relativity do not claim that nothing is faster than light. What it claims is that nothing with mass can accelerate from slower than the speed of light 2 faster than the speed of light. That's because as it approaches the speed of light it gains mass and you would require infinite energy to exceed the speed of light as you would gain infinite Mass.

Jaden

The expansion if the universe is faster than light is it not?