UK Authorities Crack Down On Nazi Dogs And Angry Drivers While Forcing Parents To Watch Baby Die

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: Grambler

How will they get him to Italy?

I hear that a military solution is in place so you may get your wish, but it won't be at the parents doing because it's easier to arrange a mob, social media campaign and stir up hate to get press time to get someone else to do the job for you.

You keep mentioning this freedom of speech you think I am against and yet are having a go at me for my opinion. Interesting double standards, noted.

I read that a helicopter from italy equipped with a medical team was on standby to take him.

As far as freedom of speech, I believe you are confused. It does not mean that I am not allowed to criticize what you say.

It means the government should not be allowed to arrest me for speech they arbitrarily define as "offensive".

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Forensick

I just hope you dont get the communist utopia where the state can arrest anyone they find offensive and stop parents from giving their children care

The parents can't give care to their child, that's why he is in hospital. That's why there are medical professionals making decisions and not unemployed, uneducated creators of life.

Of course they don't want to switch off his life support, what parent would? But at what point would you find it all a bit creepy? 10 years time when there is a hundred wards full of kids who have been dead for 10 years but have a machine breathing for them full of grieving parents unable to move on?

You are free to start that Republican Utopia.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: Grambler

How will they get him to Italy?

I hear that a military solution is in place so you may get your wish, but it won't be at the parents doing because it's easier to arrange a mob, social media campaign and stir up hate to get press time to get someone else to do the job for you.

You keep mentioning this freedom of speech you think I am against and yet are having a go at me for my opinion. Interesting double standards, noted.

I read that a helicopter from italy equipped with a medical team was on standby to take him.

As far as freedom of speech, I believe you are confused. It does not mean that I am not allowed to criticize what you say.

It means the government should not be allowed to arrest me for speech they arbitrarily define as "offensive".

Agree with that.

Ps. Good luck in finding a helicopter that can fly from the UK to Italy.

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: Grambler

How will they get him to Italy?

I hear that a military solution is in place so you may get your wish, but it won't be at the parents doing because it's easier to arrange a mob, social media campaign and stir up hate to get press time to get someone else to do the job for you.

You keep mentioning this freedom of speech you think I am against and yet are having a go at me for my opinion. Interesting double standards, noted.

I read that a helicopter from italy equipped with a medical team was on standby to take him.

As far as freedom of speech, I believe you are confused. It does not mean that I am not allowed to criticize what you say.

It means the government should not be allowed to arrest me for speech they arbitrarily define as "offensive".

Agree with that.

Ps. Good luck in finding a helicopter that can fly from the UK to Italy.

An air ambulance in the UK and a military plane in Italy are both on standby to rush to Alfie's aid.
And Bambino Gesu, the Vatican-owned hospital, confirmed their team is ready to treat Alfie.

www.express.co.uk...

Must be fake news, right?

a reply to: Grambler

You sure about the helicopter?
900 miles from London to Rome, only a couple of birds in manufacture can do that distance.
EDIT
They could refuel in France or wherever of course.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Grambler

You sure about the helicopter?
900 miles from London to Rome, only a couple of birds in manufacture can do that distance.

Thats whats being reported from multiple sites.

www.express.co.uk...

www.dailystar.co.uk...

metro.co.uk...

www.lifenews.com...

www.mirror.co.uk...

www.nationalreview.com...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

There are more places covering this as well.

a reply to: Grambler

Yep, I edited my post after a doh moment, very late here, posting in bed.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: Grambler

How will they get him to Italy?

I hear that a military solution is in place so you may get your wish, but it won't be at the parents doing because it's easier to arrange a mob, social media campaign and stir up hate to get press time to get someone else to do the job for you.

You keep mentioning this freedom of speech you think I am against and yet are having a go at me for my opinion. Interesting double standards, noted.

I read that a helicopter from italy equipped with a medical team was on standby to take him.

As far as freedom of speech, I believe you are confused. It does not mean that I am not allowed to criticize what you say.

It means the government should not be allowed to arrest me for speech they arbitrarily define as "offensive".

Agree with that.

Ps. Good luck in finding a helicopter that can fly from the UK to Italy.

An air ambulance in the UK and a military plane in Italy are both on standby to rush to Alfie's aid.
And Bambino Gesu, the Vatican-owned hospital, confirmed their team is ready to treat Alfie.

www.express.co.uk...

Must be fake news, right?

No, I said the post before yours that news was about a transport solution and I read it was a helicopter to aircraft, i was being a bit facetious about a helicopter flying to Italy.

So these helicopter, airplane and medical teams, they are all volunteers right? No Italian people will come second to the media circus (including the Pope) if there is an accident in Italy and the team cannot respond because they are importing vegetables from the UK. No cost to the parents or will they use the GoFundMe to pay for it?

To be honest, I think its a great way to free up our hospital beds and give the parents a free holiday, Im just not sure the Vatican and Italy will allow us all in.

Oh I have a headache your highness.....laaaaaaaaaa

a reply to: Forensick

Oh got it, you were wrong, moving on.

In this incident, the italian government granted this child citizenship, and have set up the means to treat the child.

My issue isnt the UK saying we will no longer pay for this child to receive treatment because it is pointless.

It is the extra step of saying we will use law enforcement to make sure the parents cant give the child other treatment they have lined up.

There is no reason these parents should not be allowed to seek other treatment.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Forensick

Oh got it, you were wrong, moving on.

In this incident, the italian government granted this child citizenship, and have set up the means to treat the child.

My issue isnt the UK saying we will no longer pay for this child to receive treatment because it is pointless.

It is the extra step of saying we will use law enforcement to make sure the parents cant give the child other treatment they have lined up.

There is no reason these parents should not be allowed to seek other treatment.

So you would be happy sending Alfie to the local pikey Witch Doctor if she promised to cure Alfie with lining of a rabbits earlobe soaked in bats piss if they asked for it? Because despite what the Catholics may tell you, the lord god is not going to cure Alfie and the Italians having home to the Pope does not make them and better medically trained than the UK.

But some people can see the the circus for what it is and using a dying little boy to promote the circus is sick and it is that what we should be protecting, protecting Alfie from suffering any more at the whims of his ill educated and therefor vulnerable parents want to put him through.

Life support machines are being switched off all over the country every day, and yet in a little corner of England, a nasty vocal minority have besieged and intimidated a hospital with no dignity.

A quote from the hospital:

We would like to remind the public that this is a hospital for sick children and it should not be forgotten that many families are going through extremely challenging and emotional times.

We would ask protesters to respect families and staff, including the poorly children in the wards and to ensure that access to the hospital is not restricted at any time, so that services including the blood and ambulance service can run as efficiently as possible

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Forensick

Oh got it, you were wrong, moving on.

No I wasnt, you said:

I read that a helicopter from italy equipped with a medical team was on standby to take him

and I said:

Good luck in finding a helicopter that can fly from the UK to Italy.

To which you then change the goalposts and said:

An air ambulance in the UK and a military plane in Italy are both on standby to rush to Alfie's aid

So its not a helicopter from Italy and you added a Military Plane and yet I am wrong? Moving on....

a reply to: Forensick

Good luck in finding a helicopter that can fly from the UK to Italy.

Earlier article..

So its not a helicopter from Italy and you added a Military Plane and yet I am wrong? Moving on....

More recent article...

Papers are allowed to update stories as they break right?

Life support machines are being switched off all over the country every day, and yet in a little corner of England, a nasty vocal minority have besieged and intimidated a hospital with no dignity.

Most of what is upsetting many americans is, even with our screwed up health care system that is a decision that gets left up to the families, not a decision handed down by the beauracracy. Typically when the court over rules the family the person in question had a stipulation in their will about pulling the plug.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Forensick

To which you then change the goalposts and said:

Earlier article..

So its not a helicopter from Italy and you added a Military Plane and yet I am wrong? Moving on....

More recent article...

Papers are allowed to update stories as they break right?

This has got nothing to do with the thread, yes stories can update and those update may make earlier posts redundant. You don't then go around crowing "I was right, you were wrong" like a 10 year old girl.

So do you have a dog in this fight or are you here to drag it off topic?

Most of what is upsetting many americans is, even with our screwed up health care system that is a decision that gets left up to the families, not a decision handed down by the beauracracy. Typically when the court over rules the family the person in question had a stipulation in their will about pulling the plug.

It is a decision left up to the families until they start to take the mickey claiming the NHS tried to kill my baby...

As I said previous, at what point does it all get a bit sinister, a 500 bedroom pro life center full of dead children being kept from rotting by a machine? Where would you draw the line?

Also, please remember the NHS is there to provide for sick, injured and dying people, its not a hotel for dead people of any parent who cannot accept a medical professional opinion which then needs to be backed by 3 courts who you still know better than before you turn to the Pope and social media deciding you sill know best.

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Forensick

To which you then change the goalposts and said:

Earlier article..

So its not a helicopter from Italy and you added a Military Plane and yet I am wrong? Moving on....

More recent article...

Papers are allowed to update stories as they break right?

This has got nothing to do with the thread, yes stories can update and those update may make earlier posts redundant. You don't then go around crowing "I was right, you were wrong" like a 10 year old girl.

So do you have a dog in this fight or are you here to drag it off topic?

I was right, there is a helicopter ready to fly him. They also have a plane. Helicopters can refuel. What is wrong about my intial statement?

"I heard that a helicopter from italy was on stand by to take him."? Nothing at all, I was totally right.

You didnt know about the copter, as you originally asked how he would get there.

Its ok, you are not informed on the situation, no shame in that.

As far as witch doctors, yes, if traditional medicine failed and the boy is going to die, what right is it of the government to say that a family can not try alternative methods.

And we are not talking about dismembering the boy or something like that; we are talking about him being taken to a humane hosiptal in italy.

originally posted by: Forensick

Most of what is upsetting many americans is, even with our screwed up health care system that is a decision that gets left up to the families, not a decision handed down by the beauracracy. Typically when the court over rules the family the person in question had a stipulation in their will about pulling the plug.

It is a decision left up to the families until they start to take the mickey claiming the NHS tried to kill my baby...

As I said previous, at what point does it all get a bit sinister, a 500 bedroom pro life center full of dead children being kept from rotting by a machine? Where would you draw the line?

Also, please remember the NHS is there to provide for sick, injured and dying people, its not a hotel for dead people of any parent who cannot accept a medical professional opinion which then needs to be backed by 3 courts who you still know better than before you turn to the Pope and social media deciding you sill know best.

Who is saying l;eave the kids there?

You keep making this false argument.

The child would already be gone, freeing up a bed, if the court wouldnt have forced the child to not have treatment.

I know many people that get hospice care, where they basically return home to die.

Imagine the precedent being set

"Sorry you cant take your grandman home to die, because we are afaraid you will use your own resources to provide a venitlator for her" She must stay here and starve to death"

It is insane.

a reply to: Forensick

Got it he isn't allowed to use more recent information, good to know.

I made my point earlier in the thread, I think its abhorrent the bureaucracy can tell the parents no they cannot touch their child, no you cannot move the child to a different hospital, and no you cannot try any new or experimental treatments because your brain dead child would suffer unnecessarily.



Yet in the next breath they say it will be more humane to let a child die of thirst.

If the child is truly brain dead, then he would suffer no more by loading him up for transport to Italy than he will by letting him die of thirst.

As far as witch doctors, yes, if traditional medicine failed and the boy is going to die, what right is it of the government to say that a family can not try alternative methods.

And we are not talking about dismembering the boy or something like that; we are talking about him being taken to a humane hosiptal in italy.

Sorry it doesnt work like that, where do you draw the line of alternative methods? There needs to be a line because potentially the parents of an African child refugee in the UK may find it more acceptable to dismemberment than those who have not been exposed to witch craft / tribal customs, so who decides? In this case, the 3 courts including the ECHJ.

Italy cannot treat him, they have no cure, there is no cure, its a new illness, all they are offering is to keep him on life support for longer and for whose benefit? I dont think its Alfies.

If you define a humane hospital as one willing to keep a clinically dead child from rotting through life supports and forced feeding then you have a very different understanding of whats humane.

Would you have your dead dog on life support so it can lie on the rug looking like its breathing and still warm?

a reply to: Forensick
It doesnt matter what I would do, iot matters as to what the government tells me I cant do.

The government has every right to say "we will not pay for this persons life support anymore because it wont help"

they do not have the right to tell me "We will not pay for your childs life support, and we will put police up to make sure you do not take the child elsewhere to get the child life support"

Again, we are not talking about witch doctors, we are taling about another humane hospital.

If the doctors know that death is inevitable and they want just the most humane death, why not pump the kid full of morphine? This would surely be less painful than making the kid starve to death.

So the court is not even demanding the most painless way of death.

But as long as we are engagning in slippery slope arguments; why shouldnt this same argument be applied to a man with a terminal illness in pain?

"Sorry, we know you have lined up that liver you need out of personal donations but we dont think that will save your life, so we will put armed officers up to make sure you dont leave the hospital to get that treatment, you must die here"

Ok by you though, right? I mean, the hospital knows the man is in [pain, and the liver wont help, so he has no right to spend his own money on a liver.

Its is government overreach of the highest order.

Got it he isn't allowed to use more recent information, good to know.

Yawn, move on.

I made my point earlier in the thread, I think its abhorrent the bureaucracy can tell the parents no they cannot touch their child, no you cannot move the child to a different hospital, and no you cannot try any new or experimental treatments because your brain dead child would suffer unnecessarily.

There is no new and experimental treatment, he would be a guinea pig tested on without any pre-planned treatment, whimsical roll of the dice medicine like that of the turn of the century which was inhume by todays standards. I thank the UK medical teams from protecting Alfie from that.

Yet in the next breath they say it will be more humane to let a child die of thirst.

He is in a permanent vegetative state, in my opinion you cannot compare a person with complete awareness they are dying from thirst to a person on life support who brain cannot even make his hear beat without help.

If the child is truly brain dead, then he would suffer no more by loading him up for transport to Italy than he will by letting him die of thirst.

Ive said before, where do you draw the line, for whatever reason a few gobby scousers have got the backing of the vatican and some of the American Bible Belts big hitters to use this poor child for nefarious reasons, how many children are taken off life support each day and what precedence does this set?

Perhaps if Italy will unilaterally agree to take every UK child on life support then we could establish and Italian Export Tax for the benefit of parents of brain dead children to pay for the nightmare scenario you are proposing.

Ask yourself why is Alfie different, why is Italy involved and why a rioting mob at a public hospital is acceptable to anyone other than uneducated Scousers.

The answer is Alfie is different because he was bred by a couple of semi illiterate Scousers with a band of fellow illiterates able to make noise and act in a thoroughly undignified way. The pope, via Italy, will do anything to raise its profile after abusing kids since its inception. Put the two together and you have a powerful (albeit brief) media storm.

Why did the Pope get involved with the McCanns? Because it was and is a media storm.