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A story from the past and why it´s so important to not just blindly follow any ideology.
page: 1share:
Make sure you read everything, before you jump to conclusions in the middle of the read. Please be civil and understand that english is not my first
language. Grammar/spelling errors? Finders keepers, although I give my best.
I´m going to tell you a true and lenghty story, which I find, has a very important message in it. First I´m going to tell the story. It´s a true story. Then I´m going to write exactly what is so important and why we really need more of that, today.
If there are members of the Jewish religion present, please keep in mind this story is just the vehicle for the actual message. It is not my intend to start a discussion about WW2 or Jews, or say bad things about their religion. The important part is to stay with me, until the end. Then you will see, it will surprise you.
As most of you know I´m German. I´m not a fascist or racistand I´m neither right or left, just to take that out of the discussion, because of what follows. If you need to tag me with a word, it would be similar to a libertarian. In Germany, when you´re about 14 years old +-, you get introduced to WW2 in history class, it´s a full year 2h history per week today. Back then, it wasn´t as much but you see, it´s integrated. It´s not like you don´t know anything about it before that, but now you have to learn it.
As I learned more and more about the times back then, I asked myself, why the heck did people fall for this guy? How was it possible that he could turn the civilians against the Jews (not only, but those are the more prominent victims...)? So I went to my father, that was 16 years old in April 1945. He was already hiding from the regime because he was about to send away into war.
Think what you want about desertation but it was the right choice to do. People by that time of course knew Hitler was insane. He also had to care for his mother and grandmother financially, somehow, by that time. He did not want to kill and he could not afford to be killed. They knew something about camps. They had "blockwarts" in every city, every town, even small ones like 1000 souls. SS-snitches that would rat everyone out. You would be shot on sight or brought away into war. That was what people were suspecting what the camps were at that time, according to my father.
So during a talk, I asked him, why the Germans were up agains the Jews suddenly, what was the seed that Hitler used to germinate into a full blown world war? I ask you again to stay civil, this is not my standpoint. It´s what my father relayed to me. The gist of the spirit about that topic was BEFORE Hitler even rise to power. You will recognize, at that time, my father was unborn so how could he know? He again, got it relayed from his father, because ironical he asked a similar question. Now keep in mind, some of what I will now relay, might be factual wrong when it comes to the Jewish religion. I´ll place asterix at the point where I´m unsure if this is fact.
His opinion was, that the reason why Hitler could turn so many Germans against Jews was this:
My father relaying parts, from what his father told him and his own experience about the time back then:
He told me that because most Jews were only working higher jobs like salesmen or gold arts, ****because of their religion****. Because of that, most Jews were very influent and rich, naturally. He also told me, most were seen as unfriendly and rude, good salesmen but not shy to take opportunity without regard. Of course not everyone was like that, he made that very clear and I believe he had a jewish friend when he was still young and war waged in Europe. But some more famous Jewish familys reputations where used and overexaggerated. My grandfather knew several Jews as he was a salesmen himself and thus had contacts, but he made clear those were all friendly minded persons.
Basically, there already was a small grunt against the Jews, that Hitler used. In the first stages, it was believed by the population that Hitler would just throw them out of the country. Later, "crimes" that they commited (it was all lies, the crime was being Jewish for the Regime, the population needed to be held in the dark) had to be served in a prison, what turned out to be concentration camps later, but it was way to late.
He said it was a horrible time growing up back then, horrible moments and then he put both hands on my shoulder, grabbed them and told me basically
-To think for my own, be inquisitive, not blindly accept authority.
-To always uphold truth and honor it. Truth always needs to be more valued than any rivalery or grudge [sic: or political standpoint].
-Be upfront and direct with your intentions towards others and towards yourself.
He told me some more personal things that are not part of this thread but this is essentially what the message is. I don´t want to read a single line about WW2, right or left here, in this thread. This is not what it´s about! It´s a serious topic for me, that moment was very intense and a huge foundation stone to the person I am today. I did not share this with you so you can make fun or post funny jokes.
Finally, what´s my damn point?
I´m not perfect either, I just want each one of you to go into yourself and ask:
What am I doing here? Why am I here? Everyone needs to chill down a bit. Take a step back and consider why those three lines are so damn important in life. Not the actual lines but the message they contain.
If you feel the need to say something, please act like an adult. I know it´s the internet but this should not be too much to ask. No comments about my political standpoint or similar, this does not belong here. I just wrote this as a disclaimer because this is a sensitive topic.
Thank you for your patience.
I´m going to tell you a true and lenghty story, which I find, has a very important message in it. First I´m going to tell the story. It´s a true story. Then I´m going to write exactly what is so important and why we really need more of that, today.
If there are members of the Jewish religion present, please keep in mind this story is just the vehicle for the actual message. It is not my intend to start a discussion about WW2 or Jews, or say bad things about their religion. The important part is to stay with me, until the end. Then you will see, it will surprise you.
As most of you know I´m German. I´m not a fascist or racistand I´m neither right or left, just to take that out of the discussion, because of what follows. If you need to tag me with a word, it would be similar to a libertarian. In Germany, when you´re about 14 years old +-, you get introduced to WW2 in history class, it´s a full year 2h history per week today. Back then, it wasn´t as much but you see, it´s integrated. It´s not like you don´t know anything about it before that, but now you have to learn it.
As I learned more and more about the times back then, I asked myself, why the heck did people fall for this guy? How was it possible that he could turn the civilians against the Jews (not only, but those are the more prominent victims...)? So I went to my father, that was 16 years old in April 1945. He was already hiding from the regime because he was about to send away into war.
Think what you want about desertation but it was the right choice to do. People by that time of course knew Hitler was insane. He also had to care for his mother and grandmother financially, somehow, by that time. He did not want to kill and he could not afford to be killed. They knew something about camps. They had "blockwarts" in every city, every town, even small ones like 1000 souls. SS-snitches that would rat everyone out. You would be shot on sight or brought away into war. That was what people were suspecting what the camps were at that time, according to my father.
So during a talk, I asked him, why the Germans were up agains the Jews suddenly, what was the seed that Hitler used to germinate into a full blown world war? I ask you again to stay civil, this is not my standpoint. It´s what my father relayed to me. The gist of the spirit about that topic was BEFORE Hitler even rise to power. You will recognize, at that time, my father was unborn so how could he know? He again, got it relayed from his father, because ironical he asked a similar question. Now keep in mind, some of what I will now relay, might be factual wrong when it comes to the Jewish religion. I´ll place asterix at the point where I´m unsure if this is fact.
His opinion was, that the reason why Hitler could turn so many Germans against Jews was this:
My father relaying parts, from what his father told him and his own experience about the time back then:
He told me that because most Jews were only working higher jobs like salesmen or gold arts, ****because of their religion****. Because of that, most Jews were very influent and rich, naturally. He also told me, most were seen as unfriendly and rude, good salesmen but not shy to take opportunity without regard. Of course not everyone was like that, he made that very clear and I believe he had a jewish friend when he was still young and war waged in Europe. But some more famous Jewish familys reputations where used and overexaggerated. My grandfather knew several Jews as he was a salesmen himself and thus had contacts, but he made clear those were all friendly minded persons.
Basically, there already was a small grunt against the Jews, that Hitler used. In the first stages, it was believed by the population that Hitler would just throw them out of the country. Later, "crimes" that they commited (it was all lies, the crime was being Jewish for the Regime, the population needed to be held in the dark) had to be served in a prison, what turned out to be concentration camps later, but it was way to late.
He said it was a horrible time growing up back then, horrible moments and then he put both hands on my shoulder, grabbed them and told me basically
-To think for my own, be inquisitive, not blindly accept authority.
-To always uphold truth and honor it. Truth always needs to be more valued than any rivalery or grudge [sic: or political standpoint].
-Be upfront and direct with your intentions towards others and towards yourself.
He told me some more personal things that are not part of this thread but this is essentially what the message is. I don´t want to read a single line about WW2, right or left here, in this thread. This is not what it´s about! It´s a serious topic for me, that moment was very intense and a huge foundation stone to the person I am today. I did not share this with you so you can make fun or post funny jokes.
Finally, what´s my damn point?
I´m not perfect either, I just want each one of you to go into yourself and ask:
What am I doing here? Why am I here? Everyone needs to chill down a bit. Take a step back and consider why those three lines are so damn important in life. Not the actual lines but the message they contain.
If you feel the need to say something, please act like an adult. I know it´s the internet but this should not be too much to ask. No comments about my political standpoint or similar, this does not belong here. I just wrote this as a disclaimer because this is a sensitive topic.
Thank you for your patience.
Well said mate.
These are the same reasons why it frustrates me to no end people, blindly follow anything. Religion, political affiliates etc, I was raised to question everything, and to be truthful about everything. It's a shame now that everyone blindly follows anything and everything.
These are the same reasons why it frustrates me to no end people, blindly follow anything. Religion, political affiliates etc, I was raised to question everything, and to be truthful about everything. It's a shame now that everyone blindly follows anything and everything.
a reply to: verschickter
Interesting post, thanks for sharing
I've often wondered how the people 'allowed' it to happen, but then I remind myself that there was only one source of media back then, state media.
It would be much more difficult for governments to 'brainwash' a populace these days.
Good OP
Interesting post, thanks for sharing
I've often wondered how the people 'allowed' it to happen, but then I remind myself that there was only one source of media back then, state media.
It would be much more difficult for governments to 'brainwash' a populace these days.
Good OP
@Grimmley
And deceive theirselfes sometimes by doing it. Can´t change "camps". I´ve only seen a few here that did that. I know them by the names and I value their honesty and self-critic. Elephants don´t forget such things.
@CornishCeltGuy
I´m not so sure about that. Brainwashing would certainly be the wrong word but it´s undeniable if you know how to spot the signs. It´s also not a secret, the second you walk into a big store, chances are you´re being purposefully influenced by music, colors, shape and odors.
I don´t know if this is a thing in the UK but here in supermarkets, or basically also small private run local shops do place most of the candy-bars and small sweets near the cashier. It even has a word, "quengelware" it literally translates into "whine ware". It´s called that way so that if the kid sees it and asks for it, the parents are more inclined they buy it to make them shut up.
Bad tongues say it´s made that way so if kids put it on the conveyor or desk unknowingly to their parents, it´s paid anyways if they don´t watch
And deceive theirselfes sometimes by doing it. Can´t change "camps". I´ve only seen a few here that did that. I know them by the names and I value their honesty and self-critic. Elephants don´t forget such things.
@CornishCeltGuy
I´m not so sure about that. Brainwashing would certainly be the wrong word but it´s undeniable if you know how to spot the signs. It´s also not a secret, the second you walk into a big store, chances are you´re being purposefully influenced by music, colors, shape and odors.
I don´t know if this is a thing in the UK but here in supermarkets, or basically also small private run local shops do place most of the candy-bars and small sweets near the cashier. It even has a word, "quengelware" it literally translates into "whine ware". It´s called that way so that if the kid sees it and asks for it, the parents are more inclined they buy it to make them shut up.
Bad tongues say it´s made that way so if kids put it on the conveyor or desk unknowingly to their parents, it´s paid anyways if they don´t watch
originally posted by: verschickter
I don´t know if this is a thing in the UK but here in supermarkets, or basically also small private run local shops do place most of the candy-bars and small sweets near the cashier. It even has a word, "quengelware" it literally translates into "whine ware". It´s called that way so that if the kid sees it and asks for it, the parents are more inclined they buy it to make them shut up.
It used to be like that in the UK but my local 'Tesco' (major supermarket) now has 'health bars', nuts, and similar by the cashiers. They even have a stall which provides free fruit for any kids shopping with their parents or whatever, bananas, apples, mangos, oranges, grapes. Businesses here have definitely changed in the last couple of years.
edit on 23-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: clarity
originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: verschickter
Interesting post, thanks for sharing
I've often wondered how the people 'allowed' it to happen, but then I remind myself that there was only one source of media back then, state media.
It would be much more difficult for governments to 'brainwash' a populace these days.
Good OP
Not really , they are still brainwashing huge amounts of people every day, with bull crap like weapons of mass destruction to justify war...then the lies get swept under the rug and the war stays.
originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: verschickter
Interesting post, thanks for sharing
I've often wondered how the people 'allowed' it to happen, but then I remind myself that there was only one source of media back then, state media.
It would be much more difficult for governments to 'brainwash' a populace these days.
Good OP
Not really , they are still brainwashing huge amounts of people every day, with bull crap like weapons of mass destruction to justify war...then the lies get swept under the rug and the war stays.
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
Point being, at first it wasn´t about killing them, this slowly creeped in over time. Hitler played the unjust and envy card. Just read the different public speeches he gave over time. Sort of like an exponential function, slowly creeping upwards and then hitting maximum.
I recognize we are talking WW2, as long as it stay inside "the message" I´m fine with that btw. I just don´t want this thread go into discussion about if there were camps or not and such.
Point being, at first it wasn´t about killing them, this slowly creeped in over time. Hitler played the unjust and envy card. Just read the different public speeches he gave over time. Sort of like an exponential function, slowly creeping upwards and then hitting maximum.
I recognize we are talking WW2, as long as it stay inside "the message" I´m fine with that btw. I just don´t want this thread go into discussion about if there were camps or not and such.
edit on 23-4-2018 by verschickter because: (no reason given)
a reply to: verschickter
The single state media source massively made a difference though, don't you think?
These days we'd be arguing on social media including ATS and making our own conclusions of what is right or wrong.
I am convinced that any government trying genocide stuff today would have a much harder time pulling it off than Hitler did, and that is a good thing.
...for the record as well, I feel for all modern German people who carry that memory of 70 years ago in your nation, it wasn't your fault, same as the atrocities of the British empire had # all to do with me.
The single state media source massively made a difference though, don't you think?
These days we'd be arguing on social media including ATS and making our own conclusions of what is right or wrong.
I am convinced that any government trying genocide stuff today would have a much harder time pulling it off than Hitler did, and that is a good thing.
...for the record as well, I feel for all modern German people who carry that memory of 70 years ago in your nation, it wasn't your fault, same as the atrocities of the British empire had # all to do with me.
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
Damn it! I thought I wrote about scarce communication, good that you pointed out. There was more than one news source but they were all run by the regime of course.
The internet might make it harder on the first look, but just look at the lemmings all around you. Swallowing the hook the first time. This is dangerous in my eyes, when people put emotions over clear thoughts in situatuions like currently.
Coupled with the fake news agenda It´s a full blown disinformation war and many members here are guilty, too.
You know that´s the first time something like this is said to me personally? Most know it but it´s seldom that it´s spoken out loud.
Damn it! I thought I wrote about scarce communication, good that you pointed out. There was more than one news source but they were all run by the regime of course.
The internet might make it harder on the first look, but just look at the lemmings all around you. Swallowing the hook the first time. This is dangerous in my eyes, when people put emotions over clear thoughts in situatuions like currently.
Coupled with the fake news agenda It´s a full blown disinformation war and many members here are guilty, too.
..for the record as well, I feel for all modern German people who carry that memory of 70 years ago in your nation, it wasn't your fault, same as the atrocities of the British empire had # all to do with me.
You know that´s the first time something like this is said to me personally? Most know it but it´s seldom that it´s spoken out loud.
originally posted by: verschickter
@Grimmley
And deceive theirselfes sometimes by doing it. Can´t change "camps". I´ve only seen a few here that did that. I know them by the names and I value their honesty and self-critic. Elephants don´t forget such things.
Aye, not just people on here, in general. It has become frustrating when you cannot even have a conversation without someone getting bent out of shape. Not even politics which is the worst part.
a reply to: Grimmley
Do you know awkward situations where you have answer to questions like:
"Why do you protect him/her now, I thought that you can´t stand the person".
and then you have to give an answer like:
"Because what you said about him/her is not true."
Then you get crazy looks like
"WTF, we know that but we hate him/her so who gives a # if it´s true/false/unjust (whatever)"
"Yeah, obviously, I do still care about the truth being told".
I really don´t get the fuss here, am I to Spock-like / logical with this?
And then you have to explain yourself why you won´t tolerate lies even on the one you despise. This was just an example and not an acutal conversation with friends but I hope you get the drift.
Do you know awkward situations where you have answer to questions like:
"Why do you protect him/her now, I thought that you can´t stand the person".
and then you have to give an answer like:
"Because what you said about him/her is not true."
Then you get crazy looks like
"WTF, we know that but we hate him/her so who gives a # if it´s true/false/unjust (whatever)"
"Yeah, obviously, I do still care about the truth being told".
I really don´t get the fuss here, am I to Spock-like / logical with this?
And then you have to explain yourself why you won´t tolerate lies even on the one you despise. This was just an example and not an acutal conversation with friends but I hope you get the drift.
What is your opinion of Merkel flooding your nation with immigrants?
Interesting thread, sadly I don’t have much to add as the the topics you would prefer us not to discuss are the only ones I see as being
“debateable” (for want of a better term)
I totally agree with your premise though especially in these days of mass manipulation by the media, take nothing as gospel and question everything,especially when info comes from those with an agenda.
S&F
I totally agree with your premise though especially in these days of mass manipulation by the media, take nothing as gospel and question everything,especially when info comes from those with an agenda.
S&F
originally posted by: Fools
What is your opinion of Merkel flooding your nation with immigrants?
Interesting question, and although I do not think that it has much to do with Verschickter's topic (to which I could write on my own account, but it would come mostly to the same conclusion and events happening), I would like to try an answer:
Why do you care about this?
Does your perceived image of a Germany "flooded with immigrants" have any kind of impact on your own life? We deal with it, and its not a flood, thank you.
Do not listen to all the lies.
originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
...for the record as well, I feel for all modern German people who carry that memory of 70 years ago in your nation, it wasn't your fault, same as the atrocities of the British empire had # all to do with me.
And so should all people of all nations thats what history is and what we should
all learn from so it never gets repeated.
No body/nation should ever have to appoligise for what generations before them
did.
I seems to me that instead of learning from the past. History in education has been
downgraded and whitewashed, where the lesson should be taught in the full ugly
state it happened in.
Nothing can ever be learned from white washing over the gory details ..... that
after all is where the lesson gets learned?
edit on 24-4-2018 by eletheia because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: Fools
What is your opinion of Merkel flooding your nation with immigrants?
As Vers said in his OP part of the German education system now is mandatory indoctrination on how bad Germans and Germany was during WW2.
If you have seen even a few minutes of it you will most likely see it for what it is, brainwashing to impose a permanent state of guilt and fear.
Germans have literally been programmed to accept that they are racist and that this is the worst possible thing a human could be. To not completely accept this or to question it in anyway is the biggest and baddest taboo that exists there.
It’s actually really sad
They have an incredible knack for making mechanical contraptions far more complex than is necessary.
originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
originally posted by: Fools
What is your opinion of Merkel flooding your nation with immigrants?
As Vers said in his OP part of the German education system now is mandatory indoctrination on how bad Germans and Germany was during WW2.
If you have seen even a few minutes of it you will most likely see it for what it is, brainwashing to impose a permanent state of guilt and fear.
Germans have literally been programmed to accept that they are racist and that this is the worst possible thing a human could be. To not completely accept this or to question it in anyway is the biggest and baddest taboo that exists there.
It’s actually really sad
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