why all the hate of zionism?

I'm only here to talk about facts.

A non religious Jewish reporter went to france to cover the Dreyfus trial. His name was Theodore Herzl. After seeing all the anti-semitism in the world, he decided that the Jews needed a homeland. He created the zionist council to help deal with the problem. Of course the place they sought was what was then Palestine. Zionism is and was just a movement to get and protect a Jewish Homeland. Now I'm not saying that there aren't zionist and Jewish fanatics but the majority aren't. You cant totaly blame the fanatics though. An analogy I would like to end with is that many abused children become abusers themselves.

No,
Zionism was a movement towards sending all jews back to their homeland. Israel did not exist and the Zionists got their way. How can you say land is your just because the Torah says so? Jews see Zionism as illegal

I can see why the Palestinians would be mad.

It's like American Indians suddenly taking over and saying the land in America is really theres because they were here originally.

We'd be a little ticked off too.

There is actually suppressed evidence that the Aboriginal / North American Indians weren't really the first ones here. I took Native American studies at Minot State University in North Dakota. Even the the Native populations have myths, legends, and oral traditions that are largely ignored by Western scientists. My grandmother is also Cree Indian. People forget that it is only 25km from the coast of Russia to the coast of Alaska at it's closest point. You can float accross on a log & don't need an Ice Age to create an Bering Straight land bridge. People have actually ridden Jet ski's / seadoos from Alaska to a Russian Outlook, command post which has been televised on the Discovery channel.

infinite:

Jews see Zionism as illegal

Only if your a Jew against Zionism, infinite.
A better explanation, without the conspiracy hype surrounding it, can be found in any decent library in the HISTORY section, but for the ease of convenience, a fairly objective understanding can be found here:
Zionism





seekerof

To answer the question, first off, there's is'nt much hatred against zionism as there is general hatred and repression towards muslims all around the world. Just Look at how the Indonesia, Thailand, France, China, and India governments have treated muslim groups over the last few decades; how most white, rich countries all over the world have been agressively discriminating, and incriminating, towards Muslim political refugees since 9/11; and how thousands of Muslim mens have been sent to Guantanamo and secret detention centres with only CIA-claimed links to terrorist activities, and this WITHOUT ANY TRIAL, I'd rather say that zionists are fairly well-treated all over the world. In fact, Zionists have waged war with tanks and bombs on the Palestinian population since the '70s and when exactly were they blamed for it by the international community or the US? Never. When did the MOSSAD has been pointed out by both Pentagon and the media as an agent of destabilisation in the Middle-East? Never. Have you even seen or heard of any jewish groups being put in jail during the last few decades, under unsupported claims of terrorists activities? Search in your memory, make some search over the internet, you'll never find anything... aside, maybe, for the Jewish Defense League (a zionist extremist group, which shares surprizingly the same point of views than Ariel Sharon and its followers over muslims in general), which has seen its leaders put in jail a few times over proven terror acts.

I don't thnk that the people who hate zionists hate them for what they intended to be originally, or for what the zionist project started out to be. They hate zionists for what they have done since they arrived in Middle-East in 1947... which means expropriating hundreds, if not thousands of families by force from their lands, putting them into concentration camps (and jails for the ones who did not accept that), then retaliating with tanks and missiles at whoever resisted or tried to protest against the forever growing expansion of colonies, may it only be with slings and stones (did they ever told you that that was the true meaning of "intifada"... fighting with stones?)

The history of Israel is a f-cked up history of aggressive colonization supported by the interests of global bankers such as the Rothschilds... all the reasons are there to hate zionists for having turned the Zion project into such a humanitarian and political mess. I also think they are being hated by non-zionist Jews for having taken the same means of political action than Hitler took towards the millions of jewish people in Europe during WW II... repeating about the same kind of oppression that they have been the victims of in the past...

People have actually ridden Jet ski's / seadoos from Alaska to a Russian Outlook, command post which has been televised on the Discovery channel.

I really doubt that... given the deadly cold temperature of the ocean's water there, it'd be way too suicidal to cross the Bering straight on a Sea-Doo. But it's true that the Natives of the northern regions of America came at some time form Russia, Korea, China and Mongolia. The aboriginal people of northern Russia and Scandinavia also have a lot of similarities with Inuks and Cree people., both culturally and physiologically.

While it is most probable that the actual Native people were not the first ones to be in America, they stil. lived here for a few thousands of years, with or without the coexistence of older civilisations that have disappeared a long time ago, and these people that were there before them were certainly not Europeans, so this is why Natives still have a fundamental priority over that land that we stole to them. And that's quite the same situation with Palestinians before the arrival of Jews in Middle-East... although their lands were not defined by State or private rule, they have been there for centuries, if not for more than a thousand years, so these lands DID belonged to them on a DE FACTO, historical basis.

I know there is a movement, among, zionists, who did not wanted this to happen, at least not this way... but I don't know what these people are doing in Israel if they're not for supporting the victims of this entire savage operation of colonization.

i dunno, the jews should just leave palestine and go somewhere else, i mean it was the palastinenes land and they had no right to suddenly take a part of it.... and then the us is helping them do it.... i just dont know

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, so apologies to all. But since the discussion known as "Tupac and JDL" has been locked by one of the moderators (the trick known as NetChicken) for reasons which were NOT GIVEN, here are the answers to your questions AMUK.

So you have come goosestepping out of the closet? I think that is good lets all lay our cards on the table Herr introspective

Goosestepping out of what closet? Remind me, but I didn't mention anything about being homosexual.

Chosen Race? Is Scotts/Irish the chosen race? That comes as a suprise.

Its comes as a surprise that a Scots/Irish descendant can have a "Jewish grandma". Or were you able to extract the bloodline out of your system?

yall are told not to use the word Jew, but to use the word Zionist instead so people will buy into the con that its not about the "dirty Jews"

Con? I don't think so. If it was a con, you wouldn't be fighting so vehemently against what akilles and Twitchy said. You would leave it to be. Anybody who rabidly denies information to the extent that you do must be hiding something. What exactly are you afraid of?

And since you asked, yes it is about the "dirty jew". There, I admitted it. Strange how "conspiracy theories" concerning the New world order, Illuminati, Freemasonry etc etc always seem to have strong elements of "Jewishness". Or is that just coincidental?

What am I not explaining? At least I am not lying about who I am and what I am doing here. How about YOU explain who YOU are and WHY you are here? Or do you just do it with U2Us to those that take the "bait"

I am in this forum for the same reason as you. To debate and argue. Who am I? A concientious thinker from NY 10455. You want my address and passport photograph as well?
And no, I don't just come in here to U2U the "baiters". If anything, the people in this forum have been "baiting" me to support my views on Zionism.

Can you prove to me that the Palestinians arent a terrorist state that encourages the ethnic cleansing of Jews? Our is that OK since they are just following in the footsteps of your hero?

Again, you're spinning the argument round onto me whilst refusing to answer any of the questions I pose to you. But since you ask, the Palestinians are not encouraging the "cleansing" of any race. They are merely defending themselves against the oppressor. Besides I've never heard of a single Israeli who has been ethnically "cleansed" by an assortment of sticks and stones. To suggest that would be laughable.

AHHHH the skinhead called me names, I think I am going to cry

Why do you keep on refering to me as a skinhead? Are you really that stupid? Correct me if I'm wrong, but skinheads probably have other things to do besides talk about hip hop, and Tupac Shakur. You're a complete fool, for thinking that Blacks don't know anything about "Zionism". Zionism is a threat to all frontiers. And a Black man has more right to stand up and fight against it than your typical Nazi boot boy.

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[edit on 18-2-2005 by Spectre]

It looks like we have a BIG Problem then since there is NO SUCH THING as the "Jewish Race". Judaism & Islam & Christianity are RELIGIONS - please snap out of it people! "Semites" are a Race. Semites come in all sorts of shapes & sizes. Arabs are Semites - Hebrews are also Semites!

"Holy Books" should NOT be used to determine "State Borders"! We are dealing with two different aspects of Reality that seem to be Intersecting - the consequence seems to be Disastrous & Perpetually Endless WAR!

Originally posted by introspective
This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, so apologies to all. But since the discussion known as "Tupac and JDL" has been locked by one of the moderators (the trick known as NetChicken) for reasons which were NOT GIVEN, here are the answers to your questions AMUK.

Reasons were given by NetChicken, but why should you let the truth start interfering in your little anti-jew hissy fit now?

Goosestepping out of what closet? Remind me, but I didn't mention anything about being homosexual.

I was talking about the "Neo-Nazi" closet any other closet you want to step out of is your own bussiness

Its comes as a surprise that a Scots/Irish descendant can have a "Jewish grandma". Or were you able to extract the bloodline out of your system?

Really? Jew is a Religion not a race. My Grandmother was a German/Jew war bride brought home after we kicked the living crap out of yall leather booted "Supermen"

Con? I don't think so. If it was a con, you wouldn't be fighting so vehemently against what akilles and Twitchy said. You would leave it to be. Anybody who rabidly denies information to the extent that you do must be hiding something. What exactly are you afraid of?

Fighting vehemently? Try laughing hysterically I am not laughing with you I am laughing AT you You on the other hand seem to be on the verge of foaming at the mouth.

And since you asked, yes it is about the "dirty jew". There, I admitted it.

Whew. we would have never guessed.

I am in this forum for the same reason as you. To debate and argue.

No you are here to spread your Racist BS and try to recrut members for your other board

Besides I've never heard of a single Israeli who has been ethnically "cleansed" by an assortment of sticks and stones. To suggest that would be laughable.

Strapping a Bomb on and blowing up a school bus works though dont it?

Why do you keep on refering to me as a skinhead?

I dont know Herr introspective just a guess on my part

[edit on 18-2-2005 by Amuk]

Well, ya see, the jew was a wandering clan with bad habits, and an un-welcomness that caused everywhere they went to kick them out.
They just kept getting kicked out of places because their penchant for trying to take things over. I say that the jew should always be treeated as the low-level sub-human they have always been, and will always be.

There are 3 kinds of Jews, ignoring those who convert:

Sephardim. The original, old testament, descended from Abraham and Moses Jews. The real deal, the Chosen People. Semitic - allegedly descended from Noahs son Shem.

Ethiopian Jews. Descended from ( King ) Solomon and ( Queen ) Sheba. Not recognized as Jews by Sephardim and Ashkenazim until 1973. Not Semitic, Hamitic - allegedly blacks are descended from Noahs son, Ham.

Ashkenazim. Long, involved story. Descended from a mixture of Sumerians and Khazars, who converted to Judaism by choice. Khazars lived on the north slope of the Caucasus mountains. Had huge, hooked honkers. Which is where the notion of hooked-nose Jews comes from. These are the ancestors of most European Jews. They are NOT Semitic people, and they constitute 90% of the worlds Jews.

Theodore Herzl was Ashkenazim. Zionism is an Ashkenazim notion. The "Ultra-Orthodox Jews" blamed for much of the trouble in the Israel are Sephardim, not on-board the Zionism thing.

Sephardim are treated as second class citizens by Ashkenazim in Israel. If you want to understand out the middle east mess, first you have to sort out this whole Sephardim / Ashkenazim thing.

While we are in the neighborhood: A jewish reporter was challenged to trace the history of the "Ancient symbol of the Jews", the Magen David - Star of David. Turns out, it's been a symbol of the Jews since Theodore Herzl. And the ancient enmity between the Jews and Muslims - actually, since Theodore Herzl.

[edit on 18-2-2005 by Researcher]

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us Researcher - you learn something new everyday!

Originally posted by SmaugX
Well, ya see, the jew was a wandering clan with bad habits, and an un-welcomness that caused everywhere they went to kick them out.
They just kept getting kicked out of places because their penchant for trying to take things over. I say that the jew should always be treeated as the low-level sub-human they have always been, and will always be.

Obviously you need to get a clue.
"Low-level-sub-human"?
I don't even know where to begin after reading such ignorant rhetoric as you have just written.
*shakes head*



seekerof

Originally posted by SmaugX
I say that the jew should always be treeated as the low-level sub-human they have always been, and will always be.

What an enlightened outlook

Did you learn this in the Hitler Youth?

At least you are coming out and saying what you mean instead of trying to hide behind "Zionist" doublespeak

Well I got to go yall tell David I said hi.

Without resorting to childish namecalling and bigoted slander, I think that in the Israeli-Palestine situation, the arabs are right to fear and detest the 'zionist peril', as it is called in arabic. The techniques used by the earliest Jewish settlers of palestine, way back since the late 1800s, were at the very least inflammatory and unwelcome. They purchased large tracts of land while announcing that it was a crime to sell back any jewish land to arabs. They wantonly ruined orange orchards by pouring kerosene, robbing palestinians of their livelihood. Piece by piece, they took the land. It is the pinnacle of hypocrisy for Israel, that land built by blood and murder, to whine when the resistance becomes effective.

[edit on 18-2-2005 by General Zapata]

Originally posted by General Zapata
It is the pinnacle of hypocrisy for Israel, that land built by blood and murder, to whine when the resistance becomes effective.

Is it any more hypocritical for the Palestinians to whine about being shot when they TARGET school Buses?

The ONLY answer is for BOTH sides to quit killing each other. As long as neither side wants to do that then who cares? Let them kill each other till they cant stand it anymore and are ready to talk.

But to claim EITHER side the "innocent victim" is hilarious

[edit on 18-2-2005 by Amuk]

Why All The Hatred Of Zionism?

This thread gives some examples, but there's no shortage of them in discussion forums all over the Internet.

At its heart, all hatred is the same thing: an expression of fear.

People hate jews and hate Zionism because they fear them.

It really is that simple.

And why do they fear them?

Because they are taught to.

Like i said, im here to talk about facts.

First, there is no such people as the Palestineans. Theyre Egyptians and Jordanians.
Second, in 1918, the balfour declaration said the Jews would have a homeland in Palestine. In 1947, after the Holocaust, the U.N. divised a partition of Palestine. It was to be a Jewish an Arab state. The Arabs rejected the plan and in 1948, as soon as Israel became a state, the surrownding Arab nations invaded. Israel won the war and took its pre-1967 borders. Even before the partition the west bank belonged to Jordan and the Gaza strip to Egypt. In 1967, Israel was invaded again and the invading countries told the so called Palesitnians to go to the west bank and gaza strip so they can drive Israel into the sea. Israel won and took the Sinai and west bank. Now we have "Palestinean refugees." Israel gave the Sinai back for a peace treaty with Egypt but, no body wanted the west bank and gaza strip. Times stayed like this until the Oslo accords in which israel offered 97% of the west bank for a Palestinian state. Yasser Arafat would only accept the annialation of Israel.
This is not polotics, this is history. You cant denie history.