Probability of ET's visiting us (modified Drake Equation)

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

be a "type III" civilization and would have massive structures everywhere

This is a problem, of course, if they are akin to us. But it also highlights another problem we have when trying to quantify or even discuss alien civilizations. Aliens might not be even remotely like us. While we might find it desirable to fill local space with structures (and rubbish also I'm sad to say) but that might not be the case with some civilization that is alien.

Another problem is, of course, that if it is not "our" technology, would we even recognize it as technology if we saw it? It is fairly straightforward to hypothesize a something and call it a "type II" or "type III" civilization, but the truth might be that we would not even comprehend that we were looking at technology if we were faced with an intelligent species using technology so far advanced from our own.

For all we know, most of what we see around us could be artificial including our own sun and earth, and by extension us, and how would we ever know? How do we know what such a civilization is capable of? I don't necessarily think this is the case, but it might be... We could be living in the middle of a huge artificial construct and never realize it. Like ants in New York.

So, maybe we do not detect them because we do not know what to look for? And if we do detect them, we think it is just part of the Universe. Part of the scenery.

Some food for though, at least...

BT

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
The Drake Equation in its usual form is used to estimate the possible number of extraterrestrial civilizations in our galaxy, but I thought it might be interesting to slightly modify it in order to estimate the chances that a civilization on another planet close enough to detect our radio signals has detected our presence and decided to visit us. Apparently the first radio signal at a frequency high enough to penetrate Earth's ionosphere was the opening ceremony of the 1936 Olympics[1]. Since radio waves travel at the speed of light that means any star system without a radius of 82 light years could potentially detect our signals.

This is a nice number to use for our estimate because it's extremely unlikely that our radio signals would even be detectable amongst the background noise beyond 80 light years and because it's extremely unlikely any species further than 80 light years from us could reach us since it would take 80 years even traveling at the speed of light. In order to make the estimation we can adjust the Drake Equation to take into account only the star systems within range of our radio signals instead of the whole galaxy. The result of this calculation will hopefully provide some insight into the likelihood of ET's detecting our presence and visiting our planet.

So here is the modified equation:

N = Ns · Fp · Ne · Fl · Fi · Fc

(Preface) (Moses from Vietnam to Andromeda)


the universe, you’d want to choose a wavelength were things are relatively quiet. One good region is known as the water hole, which spans a range from 18 to 21 cm. Hydrogen (H) emits at about 21 cm, and hydroxyl (HO) has a strong emission at about 18 cm. briankoberlein.com/2015/02/19/e-t-phone-home/

Light Speed ==== 300,000 km/s (186,000 mi/s ==== Deviation Magnitude 4
Optimum Frequency Resonance ==== 18 to 21cm ==== 1982 to 2018 (Moses Birth to Enlightenment/Bracelet)
Flight 370 ==== 2014 + Deviation Magnitude 4 = 2018

1936 Olympics[1]. Since radio waves travel at the speed of light that means any star system without a radius of 82 light years could potentially detect our signals

1936 First Signal Detected by Andromeda + 82 Years = 2018


www.hellenicaworld.com...

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
The value of Fc is going to be very small just like Fi because detecting our radio signals from such long distances is very difficult and involves a lot of luck because they have to be looking in the right place, for those at 80 light years it would be an almost impossible challenge. Also the chance they will develop technology for interstellar travel is very small since we know it's a tough problem and a warp drive is required to make it feasible at all, and we're not entirely sure such a drive can even be built. However lets be optimistic and assign Fc a value of 0.1, meaning a 10% chance any given civilization manages to reach us.

So the resulting calculation will look as follows:

N = 9240 · 0.95 · 0.25 · 0.5 · 0.01 · 0.1

N = 1.09725

www.wakingtimes.com...
www.startrekgoodies.com...

Fourth Dimensional Space Impediments, that is the way the Drake Equation is Viewing our Universe. The Fourth Dimension or the components of "Super Gravity = 4th Dimension (time plus/minus - (no mechanism for unified field yet present) ................ only exists to restrain mass, its not universally present/ominpresent, when there is mass then those forces will exist.

When a Portal Opens in this Universe, then the "Fourth Dimension" must be Ominpresent, to facility the transition, otherwise the Space and Mass in question will collapse because of the added complexity that must be reduced/translated into the feeble terms of our dimensional planes.

(the equation does not deal with "life in our universe", not literally, it deals with the "Fourth Dimensional Impediments" that must be articulated on the other side in the New Universe, to complete a Gateway/Portal into our Universe..............its not difficult to understand...............that he was not trying to teach that there was life in our universe other than ours, but that, at some point God would create bridge however momentarily between this universe and the next..............(its not difficult to relate to how God will open or allow Moses to facilitate the Travel of a great fleet of ships, the usa navy and guest under their flag, to the Andromeda Galaxy)

(This is not the same function God performs essentially, by the activation of our Earth's Moon, since we are already contained in the SEAL dimensional rifting (not true specific unified field across dimensions, across all usable and observable dimensions in our plane/universe), this special behavior God must apply in the New Universe, prior to our arrival, or it has already been applied specifically for us)

(From what I can understand, our trip Andromeda/Mars/Below the Oceans to the Third Temple/or onboard my/our spaceship somewhere is entirely viable, God hasn't taught anything contrary to any of that at all, we must continue to keep watch, 5/21, but we'll just have see, how things turn out before humanity is no longer viable with God, t-minus 2300 days from 12/21/2017) (there was a prophecy from Edgar Cayce about Andromeda, about "Peniel", that is referred to in the Drake Equation, as the Location where we will meet the Gods, I don't have to be a public symbol, but I could, we'll just have to see, how things work out, but everything is valid)

originally posted by: beetee
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I still think your work is impressive. And you demonstrate that the probability of there being other civilization-building species co-evolving with us is pretty slim, using your parameters.

I am just contributing to critique your work and suggest some other avenues for expansion.

Also there are some other things to consider. Like the definition of "intelligence" and "civilization". Just on this planet, there are a whole bunch of quite intelligent creatures. Some are even using tools, apart from us. So, the question is where to draw the line between what is intelligent enough to create a space faring "civilization?¨

At this time, here on this planet, there is just one species, us, who have proven capable of this. But if you had looked at us a mere 500 000 years ago, you would probably not have guessed we would be the species to do it.

So, another parameter then that creates some uncertainty in your equation, is how many potential future space faring species are there on just this planet? We know that some species are already using tools. We know that some species have highly advanced social structures. So, in say a million years, how many other space faring races might there be?

I know this is difficult to quantify, but I still think it is interesting to consider. If, for example, in a million years there has evolved not one, but two, space faring civilizations on this planet alone, the numbers would be quite different.

I think the Drake equation has always been very tantalizing, because it shows the potential out there. And the more we seem to learn about the universe around us, the more likely it seems we are not alone. Just the recent influx of newly discovered planets has upped, as you point out, the likelihood of there being other critters out there.

It would be far stranger that we were alone in the Universe than the opposite. To quote Sagan, it would be a tremendous "waste of space".

Still like your work though. This is the kind of research I just love.

BT

Eh, I know I'm supposed to 'stay in my lane', but I caught this comment and wanted to say, "why can't more people on ATS's boards/threads/posts comport themselves, as BT does?". I mean, most posters would've shot first and asked questions later; you offered some constructive criticism and provided a tactful response, which there is a dearth of in most threads.

That's it.

Keep it classy, BT.

a reply to: beetee


You make a good point, but I don't think we are looking for technology, per se. At least not directly. We are using infrared to look for waste heat. That seems like a pretty safe bet for any type of civilization capable of space travel.

a reply to: beetee

While we might find it desirable to fill local space with structures (and rubbish also I'm sad to say) but that might not be the case with some civilization that is alien.

It's inherently necessary for any civilization that large to have massive structures used to harvest energy and house their populations. We're talking about a population of trillions, possibly quadrillions, because a civilization which has had millions or billions of years to spread across the galaxy has also had ample time to reproduce, we can barely contain our own population growth on a single planet.

Another problem is, of course, that if it is not "our" technology, would we even recognize it as technology if we saw it?

Yes I think we would recognize it, as 0zzymand0s mentions there are often tell tale infrared heat signals, but even in the visible spectrum of light I think we would recognize a large intelligently made structure compared to something which was formed naturally. That is unless they were purposely designing their structures to look like natural objects, which doesn't seem very likely, plus they would still emit detectable signals.

Also that's another important point, a universe teaming with life should be full of intelligent radio signals. You may say "well they could just use some other technology we cannot detect" but it's still highly likely they would use radio signals for many types of communication because it's cheap and easy to use. Also the laws of physics explicitly state it's not possible to send meaningful information using quantum entanglement, so I really doubt they have a way to communicate which is faster than the speed of light.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
You make a good point, but I don't think we are looking for technology, per se. At least not directly. We are using infrared to look for waste heat. That seems like a pretty safe bet for any type of civilization capable of space travel.

(missing the historical perspective, and key component)

Angels: Messengers of The Gods (Documentary)
www.youtube.com...

Religion has traditionally attributed the transition to other realms with the angels, their wings or swords or spears .............. and God being on the other end of the transition, that is a viable conclusion. (Since God removed the original 4th Dimension, and replaced it with a relationship build around his angels and the souls of men, we in our ignorance understand as "time", which i've called a component of "super gravity-4th dimension" for simplicity, but its more complicated then that, God can apply living consciousness to a fundamental dimension)



Secular History has traditionally attributed the transition to other realms with the "Winged Globe Symbol", and the Pyramid Temples ............. the "son of man" is in view, not an "angel from god", in secular history. The Temple/Pyramids are designed to resonate/activate with the "son of man", by reason of "Joseph the Blessings" resonance. That much is true, but it simply is no longer important, with man's concerns with God.

(True, in one way are another, the information the ufo abductees present, typically has asked for specific individuals, most likely out of convenience, but the reality is the pyramids and monoliths have not been moved much) (because of unfaithfulness, the presentation of truth has become a damnable heresy ............... in reality all of this is good in the sense that the jews are now god's enemy and them along with genetic dan, have roused the nations for some sudden rebuke from god, by implication of "joseph the blessings/sign of divorce", which is the point of contention for "dead work/dead flesh" .................. if you view the marking on the body of the abductee in the view, its not a code or a system of language, it is very simply a system of illustrating the temple stones, so that goes to show how much damnable heresies have been in demand and entertained in this present age)

(ufo abductees, or the 144,000 of Moses, have won the war with God over sentencing the jews and genetic dan to death, all that is necessary right now is Moses to make the formal declaration from God in reproof of the nations, to sentence these people to death, matching the events of Edward Leedskalnin in WW2 prompting the holocaust and ethnic cleasning .............. information spreads much quicker now, so it will be much more difficult to cause a controversy, even if a number of nations have a conspiracy, to die blind and dumb) (but, to Andromeda Galaxy, for the reproof of many matching some truths about the, "Operation High Jump" to Andromeda Galaxy, not far after the "9/11/2001 Falling Man Moses") ("Lives don't Matter" is an Achievement of Faith, exposing what will have to become necessary)

(BUMP) (Technically the "Drake Equation" should have two answers, one for God's Traditional Behavior, and one for God illustrating his mercies)


futurism.com...

People in this day and age no longer assign angels for God's behavior or observable law. In reality, God is in dispute with Satan over the 4th Dimension, because the 4th Dimension is really an Angel, "Time" is our classification of it, but that is not the whole story. (The "Time Force" that breaks down in the wake of the black hole, at least for a moment the 4th Dimension is Parsed, and only a sentient being like human life would perceive the angelic body, the argument otherwise has no effect on the lower dimension ............... but for the rest of matter that goes into the Black Hole, it is reduced to its lowest possible state, and the way matter in its lowest states react over long ranges, creates the engima of dark matter (matter in lower states), and "dark energy" (time force break down in breaking down the 3rd Dimension).

"Raphael, is a legal answer, in addressing God's Behavior". God has to amend our feeble dimensions anytime activity that exceeds our basic layout is achieved. Beyond that, the Argument of "Joseph the Blessings - True Unified Field, extended from the 4th Dimension", is not native to our universe, it does not naturally occur, and "dark matter" and "dark energy" are not the argument....................God has no interest in the entirety of our universe beyond man, and our judgement, his angels, the sons of man, mankind, and Jesus which is God articulated as the lord and savior...................(we'll have to physically go though a black hole, to observe any human psychological effects, this universe, and those blackhole, do no have significant dimension, and anything with a true unified field, won't be effected..............this as much should be easy to understand..............but remember the gospel's tables are not Mose's responsibility, God may not touch the Earth's Moon, until you cut down dead work and flesh, that is an issue that will have to be addressed, but with this said, in understanding God, we've been learning more about God illustrating his mercies/judgments and that is apart of what revelation is about, our current generation).

(God Illustrating his Mercies - Revised)


www.sitchin.com/comet.htm

What we've said was true, in the sense that the "Drake Equation" describes a "Singularity" or Portal that facilitates our unique and limited dimensional arrangement, when crossing the plane into our out of our universe, by a entities or forces. It is in the Religious Arena, described on the cross of jesus, because that is a true and legal argument..................in the Secular History it is simply attributed to the "Nibiru Account"/Nibiru Rainbow/Noah's Rainbow.

Ending that statement, the third antichrist is called "MABUS" (jesus/moses or "bar jesus" for jesus specifically), Nostradamus says MABUS will die when the Comet will Pass, that is correct interms of how God has traditionally introduced "Joseph the Blessings" for whatever use, in todays terms, that means I will obtain the mechanism/Bracelet to educate the nations in some respect about Andromeda, and the future for what is necessary. (God has dealt with "Joseph the Blessings" only as a result of the Son of Man, or with the Generation without Sin before mankind with the Earth's Moon ................. nothing much more or less, that is God's Behavior, God do anything more than addressing Moses only, for your reproof, requires those gospel's tables addressed in euthanasia by the nations, if anything more at all, so you are now more familiar with God).

(In the Turin Shroud, it shows God giving Moses a Bracelet, that is the law, or more correctly, when billions do infact die, its the natural course and negligence, you are allowed to perform. Inc/rape/murder ................. right now you can be a false witness with the testimony of Moses, but maybe not for ever, not until you die by your own hands) (so far, you have only revealed from God that a holocaust and ethnic cleansing is necessary, nothing more, nothing else for now and for years)

(beyond that, the Drake Equation, classifies the field that is a imitation or fake universe that must be created, to bridge our universe, the immense reaction of shifting a entire universe, in the unique ways God performs can only be performed by God ................. God must create a "Holographic Universe" complete against our own, or "Parallel Universe", in order to facilitate the simple operation of opening a portal, to Andromeda or where ever God chooses, but in our case to Andromeda) (so its not so bad if the threats to humanity that must be killed and destroyed are only teaching their euthanasia while we wait for God's good mercies, beyond that, God has a timetable, and potential of increasing said timetable for the discernment of the seed population, in what is necessary ............... all of that will be addressed in andromeda, right now I don't have the bracelet, you don't see ethnic cleansing, force used against me, tied to salt or dust by natural processes, you see rampaging murderers, at leas for now .............. maybe this year, maybe a few months, maybe I already have the bracelet, and you will die in t-minus 2300 days, and as a enemy of god and man, continue to self euthanize in global terrorisms and lives don't matter)

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

So, let's think about efficiency then, in an inexplicably advanced type X civilization. Waste heat is really wasted energy, so maybe as technology matures it will be more and more efficient until it is no longer wasteful?

The main thing is that we are still looking for technology we recognize as being technology (as we must) but it might be the case we don't recognize what we see as technology at all.

Maybe there are other kinds of energy that can, if you are a class X civilization, harvest and use and that do not produce waste heat of any kind? I mean, we are speculating, after all about something we can barely comprehend.

I would agree that there is little to no evidence of recognizable technology to find (so far) out there, but if the Drake equation tells us they should be out there, maybe the solution to the Fermi Paradox is that we are unable to understand what we are looking at..

I am all for listening for radio waves and looking for recognizable technological markers, but if we can't find any it need not necessarily mean they are not there and we are all alone.

Cheers,

BT

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

It's inherently necessary for any civilization that large to have massive structures used to harvest energy

I agree, but only if we base our assumptions on our own knowledge of technology, which we must assume is woefully primitive as we are not even a class I civilization on the Kardashev scale.

And if you look at the Karadashev scale it is pretty much a up-scaled version of our own technology, which might not even be very feasible. It seems awfully impractical to build such things as Dyson spheres. So maybe a prerequisite for getting anywhere is that you have to discover some other form of energy that is more practical? Which we have not yet found.

Also the laws of physics explicitly state it's not possible to send meaningful information using quantum entanglement

As you know, there are no such things as objective laws of physics. We have made them up using empirical observations and mathematics, and they are solely a construct limited by our own understanding of how the universe works. So, if you accept that our understanding might be limited and incomplete, would you not agree that we might be wrong in our assumption of what is possible and what is not?

We have been wrong in the past, after all.

Maybe we are like neanderthals looking for smoke and signal fires in the sky, and when we see none we assume there is nothing, because we do not think radio waves are possible?

Are you familiar with Evolving the Alien?

I am curious, what do you think is the solution to the Fermi Paradox?

BT

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Thank you for your kind remark.

There is, as you point out, no reason to be crass or rude because someone does not share your opinions. If we all agreed, there would be no real point in having a discussion in the first place. So people who disagree with you are a treasure for places like this. Who else will you discuss with?

It is much more interesting to have discussions, in my view, than rows. Which are tiresome, and does not lead to any new insights.

BT

a reply to: beetee

Maybe there are other kinds of energy that can, if you are a class X civilization, harvest and use and that do not produce waste heat of any kind?

That is a good point and certainly possible, but that would assume all the civilizations throughout the galaxy are at the same level of development, plus it can take a very long time for light to reach us from other parts of the galaxy so we should be detect signals from the distant past where they were not so advanced, the same way we can look into the past by looking further out into space.

Are you familiar with Evolving the Alien?

I've heard the argument before and I agree, life certainly can evolve in conditions which we would typically not believe life can evolve.

Are you familiar with Evolving the Alien?

Personally I believe that the true values for Fl and Fi are so low that there's a reasonable chance we're the only intelligent species in the galaxy, or there is a very small amount and none of them are much more advanced then we are so it's virtually impossible to detect them. Fl can become non-negligible after billions of years but still rather small, and Fi is astronomically small, even given billions of years the chances of evolution producing a brain structure capable of computing high level information and solving general problems the way a human brain does is extremely small because it's just such a complex mechanism. If it weren't extremely complicated then researches would have already cracked the problem of general intelligence. If we cannot solve the problem even with intention then the process of evolution has virtually no chance because it has no understanding of information theory, network theory, neurology, it knows nothing and it has no specific intention to solve any problem.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

So Basic probability asserts that alien life must exist. Since we haven’t made contact yet, one theory goes, there must be something barring life from interstellar travel or, at least, barring it from communicating with other alien species. This barrier can be in two forms either intelligent life destroys itself before achieving space flight. Or interstellar travel is simply not possible on a technological scale.Meaning the distances are just to great and intelligent species never meet. Neither option is particularly pleasing.

But I will say this If an intelligent species found earth they wouldn't hide they would be ecstatic to have found another life form. If they chose to hide then they came her for only one purpose and that's to take our stuff.

Oh one more thing odds are pretty good that our civilizations are one of the first we wouldn't be billions if years behind other species.

Am I understanding the formula correctly by saying that the end result is based on the the species traveling to visit another signal via technology, and by being multiplied by .1 it implies there are roughly 10 advanced civilizations in our neck of the woods (some 80 light years)?

a reply to: Neechavela

Yes, assuming the values for Fl and Fi are correct, but it's likely they are much smaller, especially Fi.

a reply to: beetee


Great post! I love your point about efficiency and repurposing waste heat. Very thought provoking (which is good and bad, as I am straddling two deadlines and trying to avoid them!).

The answer to the Fermi paradox may well be that we just can't recognize the tech around us. There might be ridiculously efficient matrioshka brain's nearby that disperse their outer layer's waste heat so well that they would appear as brown dwarfs in infrared, if they "appear" at all.

Honestly, I suspect our technology for detecting evidence of technology at a greater distance that 10 ly is probably not very good (as good as it is). I think we might have a hard time detecting our own tech and signals from Alpha Centauri with our own gear, but that's just supposition.

Or maybe we are literally the first? Not that we don't have elves, dwarves and grays from our own neighborhood, of course -- there is definitely "something" going on (at least pyschologically/spiritually) in local spacetime.

I tend to err on the side of the great filter being ahead of us still, but I am open to ideas that might lead to new ways of detecting invisible civilizations at a distance.

originally posted by: beetee
I would agree that there is little to no evidence of recognizable technology to find (so far) out there, but if the Drake equation tells us they should be out there, maybe the solution to the Fermi Paradox is that we are unable to understand what we are looking at..

The first aspect of the Fermi paradox is a function of the scale or the large numbers involved: there are an estimated 200–400 billion stars in the Milky Way[14] (2–4 × 1011) and 70 sextillion (7×1022) in the observable universe. -wikipedia ............. A Weasel Just Shut Down The Large Hadron Collider, According to Reports

...............

Fermi Paradox = Flight 370, year 2014 + 42 Months = 2017 Double Solar Eclipse Cross of USA for 7 Years of Revelation. (Mayan Cosmic Cross, Cross of Hendaye).

(Drake Equation Restated)



NEW CHARIOTS OF THE GODS ( The Mysteries Continue )
www.youtube.com...

MABUS = Bar Jesus = Jesus/Moses = Masturbat*** ............... God is teaching the "Bracelet", God no longer identifies with the taking of Wives ............. "INRI" on the cross of Jesus was a literal reference to inc/rape/murder as the completion of the snare for the jewish people and the people of genetic dan (see census bureau global reports for those four general lines/color/equator, etc.) ..................

Promoting suicide and uncleanness, that is the theme for the holocaust and ethnic cleansing, that is also the benefit of the ufo abductees and the other forms of truth that are isolated from reproof, in exposing what will become necessary (although, to be foolish was a trend that is valid, and regardless of your choices to choose pain, God allows that without rebuke, at least for now) ................ the desire to live of the global community for the nations that can identify with God's discernment, in rewarding the elimination of "dead work and dead flesh", makes the usa's ethnic diversity unimportant as well as your lives, but this will have to be settled for a set season.

(God Ordained the Rosetta Stone, Coral Castle, and Mars ............... God didn't necessarily ordain WW1, WW2, or your Terrorism Foolishness ............. all of this will begin to be settled soon, with legal evidences, and this is between man and god, regardless of what God allows Moses to teach, you can still choose global mass suicide, weather that remains isolated to the usa at the end of the day, is a matter of what is necessary .............. in the mean time, assisted suicide will continue as a result of using force against me, or Moses whoever he is until we reach the next level, in isolating global mass suicide to man only, not with the inclusion of my testimony ................ when Moses gives the instructions to kill and destroy these people it will be with legal evidences)

(I don't believe the "Drake Equation, itself, is a Prophecy" ................ but I do believe it was achieved faithfully, that much was easy to understand)



The biblical word Shoah (שואה), also spelled Shoa and Sho'ah, meaning "calamity" in Hebrew (and also used to refer to "destruction" since the Middle Ages), became the standard Hebrew term for the 20th century Holocaust as early as the early 1940s.[3] In recent literature it is specifically prefixed with Ha ("The" in Hebrew) when referring to Nazi mass-murders, for the same reason that "holocaust" becomes "The Holocaust". It may be spelled Ha-Shoah or HaShoah, as in Yom HaShoah, the annual Jewish "Holocaust and Heroism Remembrance Day". -wikipedia, names of the holocaust

(Antichrist, means, Jewish Holocaust, but if it is really the Jewish People promoting their own suicide/genocide, its really just suicide. That is the New Testament Trend, that a Jewish Holocaust marks any activity from God in chastening mankind about "dead work and dead flesh".................that is exactly what happened in Germany (I'm just going to give one example)):

As Reported, Jews Euthanized by Country in Holocaust (Fake History)
Poland 2,900,000
Germany 130,000

Most likely the Factual Account (Real History):
Poland 130,000
Germany 2,900,000

(Genetic Dan's assault on the countries originates in the USA if you follow history, this originates with the jews, using them as their baseball bat, at the end of the day this is an extension of their own uncleanness...................remember, ephraim and dan ... pause ... (and aaron and the half tribe of manasseh), are not included in the the "Book of Life, that means Revelation"...........you don't have legal right to live, in the sense that God will more than like require your lives to complete the discernment of the Sign of Divorce for the seed populations, but you will die in due season billions of lives with or without a sign of divorce, for the small geographic area for 5 months)

(the jews and genetic dan, are principally using the testimony of moses to promote global mass suicide, but, once God cuts that relationship spiritually, the masses will begin to feel suffering and pain until they die, globally.................the suffering and pain you will feel increases in relation to the jewish and ethnic/genetic dan population.................that means Germany was suffering in pain the most among all the countries, and they all relieved themselves of that burden, but once that quota was satisfied, it was Germany that realized we could just stop the problem now, but, they didn't win the war) (its the 144,000 of Moses (abductees), and the faithful, that are enduring the suffering and pain caused by the jews and ethnic persons until God cuts them off spiritually, that means their false witnessing is valuable their lives don't matter, and their inc/rape/murder of the body of Moses)

(but here is something you can read as a prophecy, if, as I've said, you don't have to accept any of my conclusions about the Drake Equation)


bateaux-bois.com/fora/viewtopic.php?p=34640

(Edward Leedskalnin, is the likely author of not only these equations but a few others during the Philadelphia Experiments before the Nuclear Bomb was completed, for whatever purpose that was not achieved) (All of these other people are just Fakes)

E=MC2 = Moses, and the Jewish Holocaust that follows that, by an action from God, in revealing truth, so we'll have to see what is necessary.

Einstein's Field Equation below his picture, seems to mirror the Drake Equation, if the Drake Equation is Real, then the Field Equation is Fake, or his fake version of it, once again point to Jewish Holocaust, or the necessity of Jewish Holocaust.

(its Pain for Pain with Moses, and since you are not big on feeling the same level of pain you keep causing me, you have "lives don't matter", and global terrorism moments ............... so I don't believe, you are really into pain, but, the jewish holocaust will be here in the USA out of necessary, if this information is viewed as prophecy, but, I believe we'll have to see what becomes necessary)