Should Ordinary Citizens Carry Narcan?

i am a retired firefighter/EMT

One dose of Narcan Nasal Spray is not going to work in many cases of fentanyl overdose.

According to the CDC, multiple doses of naloxone may be required following a fentanyl overdose because of how potent it is in comparison to other opioids. This can be especially true when someone takes heroin or other drugs that are laced with fentanyl.

I would rather see the money used for more AEDs in public buildings and police cars for heart attack victims.

Maybe if you hang out with junkies or pass by people overdosing on a daily basis sure....otherwise why?

a reply to: ANNED
You are right and in many cases one dose is not sufficient. According to the label that comes in the package.

How long does NARCAN® Nasal Spray take to work? If the patient does not respond in 2 to 3 minutes or responds and then relapses into respiratory depression, additional doses of NARCAN® Nasal Spray may be given every 2 to 3 minutes until emergency medical assistance arrives. Each device is a single dose. If an additional dose is needed, you must use another device.

Narcan, an overdose reversal drug, has been available to our state's first responders for about 5 months now. In some cases, one dose just isn't enough. Metro-Area Ambulance said they've had to administer up to three doses of Narcan to revive a patient. And it actually has nothing to do with a patient's size or weight. Things have changed in the last decade.. first responders used to only have to administer about 1/4 the current dose of Narcan to treat a patient. Lance Pollert "Back in the day we used to just do .4 and just bump it until we got the affect that we needed." Why? Because street drugs are much stronger, so more Narcan is needed to reverse an overdose.

www.myndnow.com...

I don't mean to sound heartless but there are so many medical causes they need our attention that are not self inflicted, that I can't support funding for this cause. Our aging and the elderly are growing in numbers and there is so little support for those that are finding themselves in need of funding, healthcare, and assistance with just regular activities of daily living. I would rather see the money go to them.

Broward and Palm Beach Counties in South Florida have joined over than 100 cities, counties and states across the country that are taking legal action against drug companies. They say they are bringing lawsuits against Pharmaceutical companies, including Walgreens and CVS. It looks like someone is trying to make Big Pharma accountable.

DAVID ARMSTRONG: Well, they were primarily abusing it in the way they were assuring doctors that these powerful opioids that are a controlled substance would not be addictive in the way that they later proved to be addictive and could be used for things like chronic pain, which we now know they’re not very effective at. So they were able to broaden the market through a series of misrepresentations and through a series of aggressive marketing tactics.

www.pbs.org...

wlrn.org...

originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist

That said, what is the alternative? Dont allow people access to it? That wont make an addict stop. An addict doesnt think like you or me, they dont give af about the risk. I would prefer them to have access to narcan and have their life possibly saved, and give them a chance to turn their life around.

They have access to it--by EMTs and often other first responders, and at hospitals. Just because I will not put myself in the position to be liable if something goes wrong when administering a medical aid to someone doesn't mean that they do not have access to it.

I live in Cincinnati, and I have listened time and time again to people on the front lines of the opioid crisis who note the dramatically hi recurrence rate of people who have been revived with Narcan needing revived again the next day, or next week--some have even responded to the SAME individual multiple times in one day.

If someone wants to volunteer to carry Narcan and take training for it, more power to them, and I support that choice.

Here in the Cincinnati area, some towns provide free training and Narcan to people who take the training, and there are needle-exchange programs in many places as well. The crisis of overdoses is getting much worse, not better.

I don't believe that Narcan carried by everyone is the answer, nor needle exchanges, because there has to come a time when we look at the data and objectively admit that the current courses of action are not working. I know that it feels like a noble approach, but it really isn't effective and opens the individual with Narcan up to many possible issues in the future.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
I think it interesting that no one is discussing the issues and the ethics involved with the business that created the poison is now selling us the supposed antidote.

Looking for a solution to this problem through Big Pharma is asinine.

Big Pharma makes their money by making sure people buy their products and buy them in large numbers. We are of no worth to Big Pharma unless a large number of people are sick enough to need their product. Almost every med they sell comes with a list of potential side effects long enough to fill the Webster's dictionary.

A few lousy lawsuits, that will never see the light of day, is not enough. Of course they have made sure that anything that is natural, and may be effective, is soon categorized as illegal. Newest one on their hit list is Kratom. Never heard of it before they banned it, so it must work. Otherwise they would let people use it freely so they could sell them something to make it all better.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'm with you on holding the manufacturers accountable--these are patented drug formulas, and so if they are flooding the streets, to include fentanyl and carfentanil, then there should be some open and very public inquiries into these drug companies. This is actually something that I've mentioned numerous times in other threads.

But instead, we choose to set up needle exchanges, guilt citizens into carrying Narcan, refuse to incarcerate these "victims of disease," and just create a perpetually worsening problem all under the guise of generalized public sympathy.

originally posted by: ANNED
i am a retired firefighter/EMT

One dose of Narcan Nasal Spray is not going to work in many cases of fentanyl overdose.

According to the CDC, multiple doses of naloxone may be required following a fentanyl overdose because of how potent it is in comparison to other opioids. This can be especially true when someone takes heroin or other drugs that are laced with fentanyl.

I would rather see the money used for more AEDs in public buildings and police cars for heart attack victims.

About retired myself, except for FEMA/Dept-H.Land Sec. 1St Responder...

I've carried a full e. r. /med go bag with me about 15 yrs now everywhere in my car.

The epi-pens have to be prescribed, so I've always got them thru city Fire and Rescue..

The Narcan being expensive.. and requiring possibly more than a single does? That's the bad.. But on the life-saving side.. It is worth it... at least for me. But.. They do expire eventually...

Average cost around $150 each... at least here in Mich.. Is a real downside.

Best

EMT/ERT
ADLS
Advanced Disaster Life Support
FEMA, Region 2 South, Michigan

a reply to: mysterioustranger
I am sure your community is grateful for your commitment and service. I am part of our Sexual Assault Response Team (SART). I am one of the people that you guys bring patients to.

The services you provide are a blessing but you are a well trained and skilled professional. The general public should not be asked or expected to take on the role of a first responder.

All medical professionals don't have the heart, the desire, or the fortitude to work in all medical venues. That is why there are specialties. I have no desire to do pediatrics, for a whole lot of reasons, but mostly because I can't trust myself around people that I think may have harmed a child. That is why I work with patients fourteen and above. Fourteen is too young for me but, that is the limit that the State has set for my position.

Saving lives is a part of my job, and I support the effort to reduce deaths from drug overdoses, I just don't think this particular campaign is the best way to do that.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: mysterioustranger
I am sure your community is grateful for your commitment and service. I am part of our Sexual Assault Response Team (SART). I am one of the people that you guys bring patients to.

The services you provide are a blessing but you are a well trained and skilled professional. The general public should not be asked or expected to take on the role of a first responder.

All medical professionals don't have the heart, the desire, or the fortitude to work in all medical venues. That is why there are specialties. I have no desire to do pediatrics, for a whole lot of reasons, but mostly because I can't trust myself around people that I think may have harmed a child. That is why I work with patients fourteen and above. Fourteen is too young for me but, that is the limit that the State has set for my position.

Saving lives is a part of my job, and I support the effort to reduce deaths from drug overdoses, I just don't think this particular campaign is the best way to do that.

I can't disagree with you on any point, but 1 to stress. If either anaphylactic reaction or overdose... and I'm nearby.. 1 life may be saved.

But, that's just me. The average person using either from the store? Don't know... Except the chance to save a life while EMS is enoute....

P. S. Still performing medical triage, but now in I. C. S. (Incident Command) ..still, old habit carrying a med. bag always in car....... Someday, I won't.....

Thanks... MS