Prestigious US university hosting "Christian privilege" seminar

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: JimboFish

originally posted by: amazing
But...what if christians have an advantage in some ways in some places? What if white people have an advantage in some places in some ways? Or men? Or more generically...

What if the majority population or demographic has an advantage just by being part of the majority demographic?

Is that not worth discussing and not dismissing out of hand?

It might not be worth discussing but it might be.

We know that people like other people who are like themselves. Thats basic human psychology. It's why salesmen try to build rapport with prospective customers...bringing up similarities and commonalities. People are more likely to buy from you if they have something in common with you.

if it's true in sales, and it is. Why wouldn't it be true in life?

You're more likely to get a promotion if you are part of the same demographic...some demographic as the hiring manager.
You're more likely to not get a ticket if you are part of the same demographic as the cop
You're more likely to get better service if you are the same demographic as the server.

Even if that demographic is you're both cubs fans or both gay or both black or both handicapped or both wne to standford etc.

I hear there’s a place called Wakanda (africa) in which blacks can hire blacks and blacks can black the blackest and nobody gives a #. Much of it is third world.

I prefer whites and putting rovers on mars but to each their own.

I think you missed the point and you do realize there are minorities working at NASA. LOL

Say...you could make a movie about that! Hidden Figures

I'll start working on the screenplay tonight!

a reply to: amazing

No I just proved it's a Majority demographic thing, releated to the statement that "we like people who are like ourselves"

The privilege could be that the majority demographic is we're all cubs fans or we like Heavy Metal.

That sounds like an admission of guilt more than a statement of fact. If you think people are better off because of their demographic, you're thinking exactly like the person who privileges people because of their demographic.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing

No I just proved it's a Majority demographic thing, releated to the statement that "we like people who are like ourselves"

The privilege could be that the majority demographic is we're all cubs fans or we like Heavy Metal.

That sounds like an admission of guilt more than a statement of fact. If you think people are better off because of their demographic, you're thinking exactly like the person who privileges people because of their demographic.

Depending on where you are...you might be better off if you belong to the Majority Demographic. That has always been true. Think of it like Sales. Sales people build Rapport and find commonalities because people like and buy from people who are like themselves.

It doesn't mean you have to buy or you have to give someone a privilege. But it's an underlying, subconscious in many instances, psychological principle.

You can pick any example. A Jew in Israel will have an easier time than a Muslim. A Yankees fan will have an easier time in New York than a Dodgers fan. A Catholic at the Vatican. A Sicilian in Sicily.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

But couldn't you just as easily say that there are times and places where people of any demographic could enjoy advantages simply for being who and what they happen to be? Is that wrong? And if it is, why?

And that was my point. Anyone who belongs to the majority demographic in their area(by area that cold mean career, job, city, state, country, university, department etc) will enjoy some advantages. Most of them really, really subtle.

When I go out and about, there is nothing I do where I think, "Gosh! I sure am lucky I'm a Christian!"

About the only time I ever felt like I was at any kind of disadvantage because of my status with religion was when we were exploring private schools for my son. In this area, the best ones are either extremely expensive or Christian. And the Christian ones require you to be members in good standing of a church ... which we do not attend having not yet found one to our liking.

So that was less a disadvantage for religion and more for not being in organized religion.

But in all else, there is no overt Christian bias. No one even really says Merry Christmas much unless you happen to know the other person really well because no one wants to offend.

a reply to: amazing

Depending on where you are...you might be better off if you belong to the Majority Demographic. That has always been true. Think of it like Sales. Sales people build Rapport and find commonalities because people like and buy from people who are like themselves.

It doesn't mean you have to buy or you have to give someone a privilege. But it's an underlying, subconscious in many instances, psychological principle.

You can pick any example. A Jew in Israel will have an easier time than a Muslim. A Yankees fan will have an easier time in New York than a Dodgers fan. A Catholic at the Vatican. A Sicilian in Sicily.

Except that it is a small minority that owns most of the wealth, power and privilege.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

But couldn't you just as easily say that there are times and places where people of any demographic could enjoy advantages simply for being who and what they happen to be? Is that wrong? And if it is, why?

And that was my point. Anyone who belongs to the majority demographic in their area(by area that cold mean career, job, city, state, country, university, department etc) will enjoy some advantages. Most of them really, really subtle.

When I go out and about, there is nothing I do where I think, "Gosh! I sure am lucky I'm a Christian!"

About the only time I ever felt like I was at any kind of disadvantage because of my status with religion was when we were exploring private schools for my son. In this area, the best ones are either extremely expensive or Christian. And the Christian ones require you to be members in good standing of a church ... which we do not attend having not yet found one to our liking.

So that was less a disadvantage for religion and more for not being in organized religion.

But in all else, there is no overt Christian bias. No one even really says Merry Christmas much unless you happen to know the other person really well because no one wants to offend.

But if a hiring manager was a Christian and it came out that you were. and the next lady was an atheist. You just might have an advantage in that job interview. That's all I'm saying.

a reply to: amazing

And how does it "come out"?

It isn't legal to ask that, and I'm taking a big risk to "out" myself. It's just as likely the hiring manager could be offended by my overt religiosity as impressed by it making him more likely to hire the atheist lady who interviews and says nothing about something that most regard as a personal matter in this day and age.

You just don't get it, do you? Being Christian is not something you talk about without taking a risk. There is precious little privilege involved. I invite you to try being what you imagine life as a Christian is for a bit.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing

Depending on where you are...you might be better off if you belong to the Majority Demographic. That has always been true. Think of it like Sales. Sales people build Rapport and find commonalities because people like and buy from people who are like themselves.

It doesn't mean you have to buy or you have to give someone a privilege. But it's an underlying, subconscious in many instances, psychological principle.

You can pick any example. A Jew in Israel will have an easier time than a Muslim. A Yankees fan will have an easier time in New York than a Dodgers fan. A Catholic at the Vatican. A Sicilian in Sicily.

Except that it is a small minority that owns most of the wealth, power and privilege.

Sure the BIG power but life is full of all kinds of levels. The hiring manager doesn't have all the power but enough to hire you or not. The Judge doesn't own much of the wealth but he has power over your life. That cop has power in your circle. Your boss. That lawyer. That homeowners association president.

there are all kinds of layers and levels of power.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

And how does it "come out"?

It isn't legal to ask that, and I'm taking a big risk to "out" myself. It's just as likely the hiring manager could be offended by my overt religiosity as impressed by it making him more likely to hire the atheist lady who interviews and says nothing about something that most regard as a personal matter in this day and age.

You're in the office. And there's a big picture of Jesus behind the desk and she's wearing a cross. And you notice a bible verse framed on the wall. that's when it comes out. I'm just giving you one little example that may or may not come to pass.

a reply to: amazing

You're working very, very hard at this.

In most office environments, unless that was the owner of the company or an overtly religious company from the outset meaning the atheist had to know it going in, all that stuff would be considered as creating a hostile work environment for someone like the atheist lady and any HR dept would say as much and reprimand any person who had that in there.

She could get away with wearing the cross, but even then, I'm not going to take the chance and say anything. For all I know, my sect and hers are not sympatico.

a reply to: DISRAELI
"political action" would involve the need for either gov't action, or it ceasing certain actions. for the most part, most of the "privilege" that the christians might be enjoying is either not being granted to them through gov't actions, or it's in small pockets of very conservative communities and it's being weeded out of those small pockets.
I see more political action directed at reinserting that privilege back into our gov't policies than I see geared at removing what is left of it really.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing

Depending on where you are...you might be better off if you belong to the Majority Demographic. That has always been true. Think of it like Sales. Sales people build Rapport and find commonalities because people like and buy from people who are like themselves.

It doesn't mean you have to buy or you have to give someone a privilege. But it's an underlying, subconscious in many instances, psychological principle.

You can pick any example. A Jew in Israel will have an easier time than a Muslim. A Yankees fan will have an easier time in New York than a Dodgers fan. A Catholic at the Vatican. A Sicilian in Sicily.

Except that it is a small minority that owns most of the wealth, power and privilege.

Sure the BIG power but life is full of all kinds of levels. The hiring manager doesn't have all the power but enough to hire you or not. The Judge doesn't own much of the wealth but he has power over your life. That cop has power in your circle. Your boss. That lawyer. That homeowners association president.

there are all kinds of layers and levels of power.

Privilege cannot be afforded according to groups; it must be afforded on an individual basis. For instance, I think it's safe to say that Caitlyn Jenner is more privileged than you or I, even despite being in a tiny minority. Otherwise you'd be forced to say such silly things like a white homeless man is more privileged than Jaden Smith on account of their skin colors.

a reply to: amazing

but, in either case, I am not sure what the gov't can do about that that it already isn't doing. it's against the law to discriminate against a person because of their religion. ya, it still happens, in both directions, but there is a legal redress if you can prove that it's happening, which more than likely you can't.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That one is a life of privilege on all fronts: talented athlete, then became wealthy, and now is celebrated transperson.

All three of those afforded Jenner with privilege beyond what most people will enjoy.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing

Depending on where you are...you might be better off if you belong to the Majority Demographic. That has always been true. Think of it like Sales. Sales people build Rapport and find commonalities because people like and buy from people who are like themselves.

It doesn't mean you have to buy or you have to give someone a privilege. But it's an underlying, subconscious in many instances, psychological principle.

You can pick any example. A Jew in Israel will have an easier time than a Muslim. A Yankees fan will have an easier time in New York than a Dodgers fan. A Catholic at the Vatican. A Sicilian in Sicily.

Except that it is a small minority that owns most of the wealth, power and privilege.

Sure the BIG power but life is full of all kinds of levels. The hiring manager doesn't have all the power but enough to hire you or not. The Judge doesn't own much of the wealth but he has power over your life. That cop has power in your circle. Your boss. That lawyer. That homeowners association president.

there are all kinds of layers and levels of power.

Privilege cannot be afforded according to groups; it must be afforded on an individual basis. For instance, I think it's safe to say that Caitlyn Jenner is more privileged than you or I, even despite being in a tiny minority. Otherwise you'd be forced to say such silly things like a white homeless man is more privileged than Jaden Smith on account of their skin colors.

Well yes there are going to be exceptions to every rule and there are going to be some demographics that have more influence than others. Caitlyn Jenner would have less influence than you or I except she's a Kardashian with all of that influence and money. The homeless guy too. The homelessness trumps the Whiteness.

But if you cleaned them both up and had them come in for an interview and everything else was even the white homeless guy could have an advantage.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: amazing

but, in either case, I am not sure what the gov't can do about that that it already isn't doing. it's against the law to discriminate against a person because of their religion. ya, it still happens, in both directions, but there is a legal redress if you can prove that it's happening, which more than likely you can't.

I here you.

I think my only point on this thread is...and I know I didn't do a good job of explaining it is...

If you are part of a majority demographic you may have an advantage in some parts of life.

I realize that won't always happen and there are exceptions. It doesn't seem like anyone agrees with that, though?

Doesn't that seem logical?

a reply to: amazing

No. We get what you think happens. You think that if someone looks the same as you, they will unconsciously favor you just because of that. It's an in-group thing.

We're saying that if that happens, it doesn't happen blatantly enough for people in the so-called in-group to feel like it does.

You must think we're all lying.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

No. We get what you think happens. You think that if someone looks the same as you, they will unconsciously favor you just because of that. It's an in-group thing.

We're saying that if that happens, it doesn't happen blatantly enough for people in the so-called in-group to feel like it does.

You must think we're all lying.

That was a good response. Thanks. Except, I think my sales analogy helps to understand what I'm saying. IN sales, we know that when the potential customer likes you enough or has enough rapport or commonalities he'll buy from you. It's in every sales book, video and training there is.

That's the link. If it happens in sales, it happens more than most people want to admit in all areas of life.

Does that make sense? I can't be that far off the mark, can I?

a reply to: amazing

Then I better hope from now on that I only ever interview with blonde haired, blue eyed women.

Am I right?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

Then I better hope from now on that I only ever interview with blonde haired, blue eyed women.

Am I right?

Nah...that's just one commonality. It's not all based on looks, that's one thing I was trying to get across and it doesn't always work...there are many exceptions.