Is Catholicism FAKE CHRISTIANITY?

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: whereislogic
the fruits of that religion;
...
Words intended for marketing a false religion usually aren't that useful in preventing genocide....again.

Yes, judge the religion by the followers, even if its not the majority....doesn't matter if the main people of said religion condemn the actions, if some do it, all do it.

Please refrain from putting words in my mouth and/or creating a straw man argument to argue in response to some questions I'm wondering (or picking the only phrase that wasn't a question to zoom in on and reading something else into it than what I actually said there, which I noticed you haven't disagreed with; not that you must find something in my comment to disagree with).

Btw, the google dictionary defines the verb "judge" as:

1. form an opinion or conclusion about.

That is not the type of judging that Jesus condemned. People do that all the time and there's nothing wrong with it. It should be clear from my videos that I already addressed the hypocritical violent behaviour of various non-Catholic self-professed Christians as well. But just so nobody feels left out:

An article in the Reformierte Presse states that a report by African Rights, a human rights organization, on the 1994 Rwandan genocide established the participation of all churches, “with the exception of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Source: “No Part of the World”

If more people practiced versions of what the Jehovah’s Witnesses preach and practice, the Holocaust could have been prevented and genocide would scourge the world no more. - Holocaust Politics by John K. Roth, 2001

The guy seems to be a bit of an expert on the subject (see information before), maybe he's making a good point.
Debate away if you want, in the end I'm very well aware I'm only responsible for my own actions, as are you, as is the Dalai Lama, the pope, etc. And I'm not blind to recognizing the signs of marketing and attempts to improve what corporations refer to as "public relations" either. And false religion still shows its "worthless fruit", even if only a minority within one or more of the bigger religions actually show their true colors to the extent it was (and/or still is) shown in such situations as Rwanda, Myanmar or the Nazi holocaust (and your examples).

What Is False Religion?

Are you distressed about crimes committed in the name of religion? Do the warfare, terrorism, and corruption perpetrated by those who claim to serve God offend your sense of justice? Why does religion seem to be at the root of so many problems?

The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?

False Religion . . .

▪ MEDDLES IN WAR AND POLITICS: “Across Asia and beyond,” says the journal Asiaweek, “power-hungry leaders are cynically manipulating people’s religious sentiments for their own needs.” As a result, the journal warns: “The world threatens to sink into madness.” A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war?
...

Source: The End of False Religion Is Near!

Wiccans and Pagans in the United States military: wikipedia

First Amendment Champions

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SaturnFX

Ever wonder how people can get it into their heads that there isn't an answer to questions they pose on the internet considering that every question you can ever think of can be cross referenced on your search engine of choice to see if it has been asked and answered before?

I reckon they never learned internet dot com enough to realize you can research in a instant the counter to what they are saying.

Funny thing is, I don't mind christians. I think most of them are pretty good hearted...thats most people tbh. But, if I had to choose a single global religion, it would be Buddhism...Christianity you can justify all sorts of villainy in the scriptures. Buddhism, not soo much. People however are always gonna people, so nothing is ever without corruption.

I've said this myself too. Buddhism aligns better with science (for the most part; there are still some pseudo scientific concepts in it like reincarnation) than Christianity too.

a reply to: SaturnFX

That post about Christian genocide borders on being rabid. I take it you are not Christian.

I was raised Catholic and even though I don't hold with much of what I experienced, I can't recall anyone in my church going out murdering people in the manner you describe. I don't believe they would have endorsed any other Christians doing so either.

Plenty of horrors have been committed by atheists also. 100 million deaths in the last century caused by communists. Maybe this is some kind of larger human flaw instead of specifically poisonous fruit of some religion.

originally posted by: toms54
Plenty of horrors have been committed by atheists also. 100 million deaths in the last century caused by communists. Maybe this is some kind of larger human flaw instead of specifically poisonous fruit of some religion.

There is a difference between a person screaming gods name while butchering people vs a dictator whom happens to also be atheist butchering people to consolidate power.

communism is trash, let me get that out of the way. In saying that, their atrocities aren't in the name of atheism. Their atrocities are in the name of communism.


I am not a christian, but I have no issues with people who are. Most of the family is some denomination of x-ianity or catholic. They can believe what they want and most are salt of the earth type people. I was going on mostly because someone found something a buddhist did that wasn't great and suggested that proves buddhism is crap...judge the tree by the fruit it bears, meanwhile the thread topic is all about the pureness of christianity...so felt like kicking some pillars with the rubbish being said.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Gonna go with the Dalai Lama here and say the true religion is the one that makes you kind.

If you are in a religion and it makes you hateful of your fellow mankind, then its the fake religion you are following.

If one evaluates his brand of Buddhism by that measure I get interesting results which one of the 2 types of religion mentioned there his brand of Buddhism belongs to then:


Hypocrites galore.

From Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, as it's often called...

Matthew 7:

12 “All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them. This, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.

13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”

28 When Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching, 29 for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes.

Just to Answer only the title. It is correct the RC is a fake as JW's and Mormon's who are no more Christians than the Moonies.

They all hove something in common.

1) rejection of the Bible as Truth, more specifically the AKJV. All these groups use the or a Bible but do not believe it.
2) have their own writings that are more accurate than any Bible, Especially the AKJV. i.e. book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Watch Tower magazine, AWAKE, Healing the World etc.
3) you must be a member of their group if you want to go to heaven or have any type of salvation.
4) have leadership that hold great sway over their members i.e. cannot leave the group or loose salvation
5) require members to do things for their salvation. i.e. Mormon Missions 2 yr requirement, Mormons also have requirements to be baptized for the dead, full tithers, R.C. light candles and pay for masses for the dead relatives soul wont have to go to purgatory, JW's and Moonies go door to door and sell or hand out magazines and books.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Can you understand why someone who does not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity may want an explanation for Jesus using the phrase:

"my Father who is in the heavens"

while Jesus is on earth when saying that?

Would you like to give it a try to explain it to me how that works with a Trinitarian perspective?

1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.

When Jesus says "my Father who is in the heavens" (KJV: "my Father which is in heaven", Mt 7:21), I conclude that Jesus has a "Father who is in the heavens", am I wrong in concluding that when I see Jesus using that phrase as such? So when I'm talking about Jesus I can say "his Father who is in the heavens" and I feel confident that I'm not reading something into the text that isn't there. Is that OK (or reasonable) for me to do and conclude from Jesus using that phrase and saying it that way? Or am I way off-track when I read it like that?

I have some other burning questions but if you want to stick to the topic above that's fine too, however just in case you might have an interesting view on the subject below as well, I'll add one question about that too (I guess I could rephrase the question in different ways, but I'll stick with 1 for now):

Can you give me any motive for taking my information about God and the bible from a religion whose members engage in war (do military service, not all of course, but I'm talking about religions who do not expel members from their Church or religious community for doing military service, or at the least tell them that a Christian does not 'do military service'; how does that work with Jesus' commandment to love one's enemies)?

2 Corinthian 10:3,4 (Reference Bible)

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare* [Lit., “we are not doing military service.”; Lat., non . . . mi·li·taʹmus.] according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things.

A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [who ruled 161-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.​—The Rise of Christianity, by E. Barnes, 1947, p. 333.

The Encyclopedia of Religion and War states: “The earliest followers of Jesus rejected war and military service,” recognizing those practices as “incompatible with the love ethic of Jesus and the injunction to love one’s enemies.” Likewise, German theologian Peter Meinhold said of those early disciples of Jesus: “Being a Christian and a soldier was considered irreconcilable.”

Any reason why I should listen to those who argue that now it is reconcilable, especially when fighting dangerous individuals such as Hitler, Saddam Hussein, or terrorists like Bin Laden, the Taliban, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc.? (still part of the same subject allthough I had to split that up into 2 questions, you can consider it 1 question)

A bit more information to help understand where I'm coming from or why I'm asking the question:

Early Christians refused to serve in the Roman army, in both the legions and auxilia, considering such service as wholly incompatible with the teachings of Christianity. Says Justin Martyr, of the second century C.E., in his “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (CX): “We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,​—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage.” (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, p. 254) In his treatise “The Chaplet, or De Corona” (XI), when discussing “whether warfare is proper at all for Christians,” Tertullian (c. 200 C.E.) argued from Scripture the unlawfulness even of a military life itself, concluding, “I banish from us the military life.”​—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1957, Vol. III, pp. 99, 100.
...
“It will be seen presently that the evidence for the existence of a single Christian soldier between 60 and about 165 A.D. is exceedingly slight; . . . up to the reign of Marcus Aurelius at least, no Christian would become a soldier after his baptism.” (The Early Church and the World, by C. J. Cadoux, 1955, pp. 275, 276) “In the second century, Christianity . . . had affirmed the incompatibility of military service with Christianity.” (A Short History of Rome, by G. Ferrero and C. Barbagallo, 1919, p. 382) “The behavior of the Christians was very different from that of the Romans. . . . Since Christ had preached peace, they refused to become soldiers.” (Our World Through the Ages, by N. Platt and M. J. Drummond, 1961, p. 125) “The first Christians thought it was wrong to fight, and would not serve in the army even when the Empire needed soldiers.” (The New World’s Foundations in the Old, by R. and W. M. West, 1929, p. 131) “The Christians . . . shrank from public office and military service.” (Editorial introduction to “Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, A.D. 177,” in The Great Events by Famous Historians, edited by R. Johnson, 1905, Vol. III, p. 246) “While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”​—The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416.

Source: Army: Insight, Volume 1

Religious leaders have completely departed from Jesus’ command to stay neutral in political affairs. In Jesus’ day, Galilee “was the heartland of ethnic nationalism,” states writer Trevor Morrow. Many Jewish patriots took up arms to gain political and religious freedom. Did Jesus tell his disciples to get involved in such struggles? No. On the contrary, he told them: “You are no part of the world.” (John 15:19; 17:14) Instead of remaining neutral, however, church leaders developed what Irish writer Hubert Butler describes as “militant and political ecclesiasticism.” “Political Christianity,” he writes, “is almost always also militarist Christianity and when statesmen and ecclesiastics come to terms it always happens that, in return for certain privileges, the Church gives its blessing to the military forces of the state.”

Source: Who Are Genuine Christians?

United States. ... in 1950, he applied for a reclassification as a conscientious objector. ...the U.S. Supreme Court ... reversed the lower court’s decision by ruling in favor of Brother Sicurella. This ruling helped to set a precedent for other citizens of the United States who were conscientious objectors to military service.

Source: Loyally Supporting God’s Government and No Other

“Conscientious objection is morally indefensible.” -New Catholic Encyclopedia

a reply to: whereislogic

Your real problem is you don't believe the AKJV Bible. You and the AWAKE, Watchtower JW's are so blinded by false doctrines that you have to go to different versions to support and create doctrines were there are none, you don't even trust you own New world Translation to just use it, because it is corrupt and shows itself, so your group have to use a myriad of versions just to try and confuse people to join your group. The anti-trinity doctrine being one of them.

There is no word trinity found in the Bible, but there is godhead which is the term that should be used instead of trinity, it is a Roman Catholic Doctrine carried over to Protestantism by the churches that came out of the RC but wanted to keep some of the doctrines, Trinity being one of them. Jesus was the fullness of the godhead bodily.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

. You should know by now I am a AKJV Bible believer and I believe every word in it. You confuse his temporary separation of himself as the Word from the presence of God in heaven, that is the glory he has always had with him since the beginning, that separation does not make him any less God and any less man.

Prov 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

before the ever was an earth, a depth of heaven and before water that we found in fountains. that is why he asks the father to unite him with the glory he had with him from the beginning

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Plus the fact that the Bible so clearly describes the Word, who he is and his complete oneness of the godhead.

John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Personally I would not go to war in another country for a police action ran and sanctioned by the UN. However if any man or country comes to my homeland I will defend it because my family is at risk. The AKJV bible teaches us that as much as it lays with us we are to live peaceably with all men. A person who is physically attacking you, you cannot live peaceably with and you would not be able to live by or keep that command the Lord gave us. To turn ones cheek and let one kill you and your family would be disastrous and we have an accountability to God for our Family's well being, not to defend them will cause one to lose rewards for his stewardship of his family.

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

God sanctioned many wars in the past and he will do so in the future. Wars of Israel to commit genocide on the Canaanites, Wars where he raised up nations against Israel for their chastisement for disobedience to His words as found in the last four books of the Decalogue i.e. The Philistines, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Medes, the Greeks the Romans. Israel is rejected temporarily by God but they still have their original calling that God will bring about. Read Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers, also Joshua, Judges, the books of the Kings, the Chronicles and the Prophets and you will see why he has dispersed Israel among the nations and then will call them home to the land he called holy and place them in it forever after he takes care of at least three more world wars.

As for Hitler, a Roman Catholic (not a true Christian), sanctioned his killing of the Jews and blacks by the Vatican. Try reading the book entitled, "Israel A Deadly Piece of Dirt" 2000 for sale on Amazon. Oh yeah I forgot, under JW regulation you are not allowed to read anything except what the Watch Tower Organization says is acceptable to read. Moslem's no matter their flag have always maintained their hatred for Jews and anyone who helps them to stay in the their land, they teach and swear to annihilate the Jews from off the face of the planet, yet they show they don't believe the AKJV Bible just like you don't.

Oh and your signature is foolish, Solomon though the wisest and richest man ever, got so mucked up in sewage he was led astray from God by his many wives and concubines and allowed the worship of other gods other than the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY in the land which was against the law of Moses. And the words in 1Cor 13:6b you quote doesn't have love in it, And what English word in it is far greater than some unreliable, unproven Greek original language copy (you do not possess norare the copies we do possess are not even 100% complete), the best English word closest to the meaning is CHARITY. You would do well to understand the full meaning of Charity for love is just one of the fingers of meaning Charity possesses.

1Cor 13:1 ¶ Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

God preserved the correct word the copied original did not convey. [quote] Ps 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

a reply to: whereislogic
Anyone else is welcome to share their views as well regarding these 2 subjects or any of my questions about it. I'm especially curious regarding the views of Trinitarians or other religious people who take a lot of information about reality from things like Eastern Philosophy (Buddhism, Hinduism, so-called "New Age Philosophy"), Islam, Judaism, Messianic Judaism, or basically anyone who thinks that this whole notion that has become known as "the golden rule" (see quotation of Matthew 7:12) is rather clever and beneficial (or "good") to mankind, a wise guideline to follow (along with the peaceful teachings that support that golden rule). With the latter I'm mostly thinking about those who will often say that the bible is a book of myths (or give a bit more credit to the bible but do not view it as the inspired word of God, or even that God exists at all), but still can find themselves agreeing quite well with Jesus' teachings in particular regarding that subject of the golden rule and peaceful conduct (as their religion is also a 'religion of peace' as they view it for example, or they view themselves as 'peaceful'). And perhaps consider these teachings quite wise, it's the part of the bible that they can appreciate. Even though they have some major issues with the hypocrites who claim to follow Christ (by professing to be Christians) but do not do the things he says, such as loving even your enemies.

James 3:13-17

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him by his fine conduct demonstrate works performed with a mildness that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and contentiousness* [Or possibly, “selfish ambition.”] in your hearts, do not be bragging and lying against the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above; it is earthly, animalistic, demonic. 16 For wherever there are jealousy and contentiousness,* [Or possibly, “selfish ambition.”] there will also be disorder and every vile thing.

17 But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, not hypocritical. 18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions for* [Or possibly, “by.”] those who are making peace.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Well I read through your comment but I could not find an answer to any of my questions. Yes, you talked about the same subjects but there seems to be no direct response to any of my questions in them, am I missing something?

Did I ask the wrong questions or phrased them wrongly in an ununderstandable way? Have I offended you for asking these questions? You sound a bit miffed with me.

I only have so much space in my signature, I can't put the whole text in, that's why it says 1 Cor.13:6b and "Love" is between brackets cause that's from 1 Corinthians 13:4 (the phrase in verse 6 replaces the subject "Love" in verse 4 with "It" in verse 6, but if I use "it" or "but" in my signature nobody will notice that "it" = "Love", I simply don't have space for more)

1 Corinthians 3:4-6

4 Love is patient* and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently,* does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury.* 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

"endures all things" includes death for me. Since God can resurrect me and I was told by Jesus that I shouldn't fear those who can only kill the body; the same counts for fearing those who can kill my family members when my country is invaded for example. Come to think of it, when is the last time the US got invaded? The size and influence of their military industrial complex often connected to a notion about "defensive purposes" seems to suggest that happens on a rather regular basis. Or to put it in your words "if any man or country comes to my homeland", the latter part I understand to be figurative, as in an invasion of an army of another country into the US which you call your "homeland". It's not the first part that got me thinking about the subject of invasion. Allthough I guess some people can use the phrase "invaded by muslim terrorists", I think I may have run into that phrase once or twice when observing politicians and what they say. I also just ran across this phrase:

The Illegal Immigration INVASION (The New American)

...which has been described as a radical right and far-right organization

Source: wikipedia about The New American

a reply to: whereislogic

Seem you somehow missed the answers, they were all addressed in my reply.

And no I am not miffed, upset from anything you said.

Charity is broader than just love. You would do well to learn English and leave the dead languages alone.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

I, personally believe that there is a VERY VERY small fraction of claimed Christians who are true Christians that practice what Jesus preaches.

Agreed.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

I, personally believe that there is a VERY VERY small fraction of claimed Christians who are true Christians that practice what Jesus preaches.

Here are the exact bible verses:

Matthew 7:21
21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Luke 13:23-24
23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

It sad Jesus have failed to save many people, even for a god like him. I guess he isn't as mighty as people claim him to be.

a reply to: whereislogic

The Trinity has become the main doctrine that all the cults and false religions attack so that they can deny the deity of Jesus.

One of the biggest clues is to look at which groups reject the Trinity and which do not.

Faith Groups that Reject the Trinity

• Muslims
• Mormons
• Jehovah's Witnesses
• Christian Science
• Scientology
• Arians
• Armstrongism
• Christadelphians
• The Way International
• Unification Church

"Another characteristic of all non‑Christian cults is either an inadequate view or outright denial of the Holy Trinity. The biblical doctrine of the Trinity, one God in three Persons, is usually attacked as being pagan or satanic in origin.

The Characteristics of Cults

Of course, the event of Jesus’ baptism plainly and naturally affirms the Trinity—all three Persons are directly and distinctly involved. What obviously proves simultaneous Modalism false are the numerous passages indicating a personal distinction between the three Persons of the Trinity (e.g., Luke 10:21-22; John 1:1b; 6:37-40; 14:23; 2 Cor. 13:14). www.christiandefense.org...

Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity

A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammar reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.

"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8

B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:

"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26

"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22

"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech." Genesis 11:7

"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8

Trinity Proof Texts

The teaching of the Church from the first century onward has always been trinitarian. The first Gospel, Saint Matthew, clearly establishes the trinitarian nature of God, especially in the baptismal formulae of the "great commission."

Paul's companion, Saint Luke, and his Gospel and the Acts which clearly teach trinitarian doctrine can only lead a believer to conclude any denial of the Trinity is clear and complete heresy. To wait two hundred years to deny the Trinity is just foolish heresy - clumbsy work of Satan at his sloppiest.

Confessional's Bytes: The Modern Day Modalists—Part I

The Trinity has become the main doctrine that all the cult groups attack. It is also the main doctrine that all the mainline, historic churches agree upon. We may all have our differences, Catholics and varying Protestant groups, but when it comes to the doctrine on God we all agree that the Bible teaches belief in One God revealed in three persons, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Nevertheless we would not want to believe in the Trinity if the Bible did not teach it, no matter what the beliefs of our various churches were.

It's interesting that the cult groups usually give their members a false definition of the Trinity. For example, the magazine salesmen knocking on your door with their propaganda from Brooklyn, New York, say that the church teaches that there are three gods in one. This is completely false.

IS THE TRINITY TRUE?

The one thing that all cults and non-Christian religions have in common is, they all deny the deity of Christ. In John 8:24 Jesus said, “Unless you believe that I am (the name God said was His in Exodus 3:15) you will die in your sin.”

People reading this today (2,000 years later) might not understand this, but the people Jesus said it to understood Him perfectly! They wanted to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:30-33). In most cases the confusion is based on miss-understanding the Trinity.

The cults say the Trinity is a damnable heresy. For a mortal who has never seen God, to say that the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal God cannot be God in heaven, come to earth as a man, and be everywhere at the same time by His Spirit (a statement beyond his pay-grade) is a greater mystery than the Trinity itself.

There is not a man on earth who can tell you how a brown cow can eat green grass and turn it into white milk! Answering the Cults

a reply to: Murgatroid

The Trinity has become the main doctrine that all the cults and false religions attack so that they can deny the deity of Jesus.

"They" don't usually deny his "deity"

They tend to affirm his Subordinance, and lack of "equality"

a reply to: Akragon

Not surprised that you believe them.

The best way to spot a counterfeit is to study and get to know the genuine.

Only the genuine gets counterfeited and the genuine ALWAYS attracts counterfeits.

The stealth agenda is to discredit and keep you away from the genuine.

This is EXACTLY how false religion works.

Throughout history, Satan has ALWAYS used counterfeits to discredit the genuine.

When the Secret Service trains its members to recognize counterfeit money, they begin by studying and learning the genuine article. They study in great detail all of its protections, its paper and markings, and the very smallest details to ensure they know the “real thing” better than anything. A bank teller deals with money all day long and he or she can get a good feel of the currency and know the “real thing” from experience and handling the bills on a daily basis.

We begin by finding the genuine article by looking at the name…one that honors its founder and creator. As Christ pointed out to Peter, in Matthew 16:18, Christ is the founder…any other is an imposter/man-made/counterfeit.

Counterfeit Religion

Now, passing counterfeit money is a crime, causing inconvenience, loss and disappointment to the victim. But counterfeit religion is even worse. It’s deceptive, because it looks so much like the real thing. But sooner or later, it will catch up with the person who tries to pass it off as genuine religion. And when that happens, people get hurt; especially the people who know genuine religion. They often get turned off on all religion, and want nothing more to do with it.

Counterfeit or Genuine

a reply to: Murgatroid

It Has nothing to do with me...

Though its interesting how trinitarians call anything that falls outside of their views a cult...

Especially since the trinity is nothing more then dogma

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

Is Catholicism FAKE CHRISTIANITY?

OP, it seems as if God himself is getting ready to answer your question personally.

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This appears to be some of the most mind blowing stuff I have ever seen BTW...

Christian author Mark Taylor says God is going to reveal truths about the Vatican. Taylor says the word given to him says, “This is going to boggle the mind. Look at what God is exposing here. He (God) says there is an archeological find that is coming.

I think this archeological find is going to be on multiple levels. Some have said it will be the Ark of the Covenant. It could be relics. I sense, and I am not prophesying this, I sense it could be scrolls. It could be manuscripts. You are going to find out . . . they wanted to keep man divided.

Mark Taylor – God Will Reveal Truth About Vatican

This is going to affect everyone. God is performing a rescue mission right now. . . . The truth is going to come out, and it is going to set people free because they have been trying to control and manipulate the people through religion, power, and money. God is going to pull the veil back and expose all of this because he’s trying to rescue his people.”

'Trump Is Going Nowhere. He Will Be President For The Next 7 Years'

The Spirit of God says, “The Pope and the Vatican, that’s right the Pope and the Vatican are not furthering My Kingdom, but are aiding the kingdom of darkness. Many are saying that this is the last Pope, but it’s not for the reasons they think. This will be the last Pope, for what I the Lord God am about to do.

I will expose this Pope and all those under his command for all the corruption he and the Vatican have been involved in for centuries.” The Spirit of God says, “There is a shaking and a quaking coming to this Pope and the Vatican, for I will split the Vatican and it’s leadership wide open for the entire world to see the inner workings of this ancient beast.

All Roads Lead to Rome!

This Pope, the Vatican and all it’s leadership, will come crumbling down. I will pull back the veil to show how deep and dark the deception has been. You whisper in your inner chambers ‘we answer to no one. No one is above us; No one can hold us accountable.’

I the LORD God see it all and the time has come when I will now hold you accountable for your darkness. This exposure will be of such magnitude that the people will say. ‘What do we do now? Where do we go now? We want nothing to do with this. We have no religion now.’ Millions will walk away from their religion, as this will affect other religions as well.”

The Spirit of God says, There is a dig -- an archeological find -- that is coming in an underground vault which will be so cataclysmic that it will ROCK the Christian world. The answer lies between Jerusalem and Vatican City.

All Roads Lead to Rome!

Just now listened to part of video below @ 37 min., where Kim Clement says the Mecca stone will be "unraveled and broken in pieces":

"What did the prophet just say to you? May I pose a question? Can the borders of Iran, Pakistan - can the borders of Iraq, Saudi Arabia - can they stop Yeshua? No. Now hear Me out, says the Lord. Mecca - how they have been fooled and cursed, that cursed stone which shall be unraveled and broken in pieces."

Kim Clement on the Kaaba

a reply to: Akragon

The JW's say God the father is the un-created God, and Jesus Christ is the created God, that is two God's. Yet they call real Christians polytheist?

Well then let's look at the Trinity. Watchtower is one of the largest groups who promote the false view of the Trinity while claiming those who teach it are Polytheist. But as we saw above they are the true Polytheist.

Let's say Trinity is a viable description of God. Nature is said to show forth the godhead, and Jesus was the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Now if the two Bible verses are correct then wherein Nature can we find a trinity.

Ok, many explain Trinity as one being expressed in Three forms. The Spirit is the Holy Ghost, the Son is the body and the Father is the Soul. We are said to be made in his image and man likewise is a trinity each man has a spirit, a body and a soul, one being expressed in three parts body, soul and spirit. Now man is fallen but he still has those three parts of who he is. Even Paul believed in the Trinity of a man when he said,

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Every person, is a body, a soul and a spirit.

Let's look at Water. It takes on three forms proven by science liquid, solid and vapor, Water is in three parts H2O one part Hydrogen and 2 parts Oxygen. Water in its liquid form is still water, Frozen water become ice but it is still water, it is solid but it is still water and no rational scientist will deny that. Then water as a gas or vaporous but even in its gaseous form it is still water by Scientist. One element made of three parts, and can exist as one in three forms, it never in any of its three forms ceases to be water it is water in all three of its forms.

Ok, maybe you all think that is too simple. We know we have invisible red heat waves a picture of the Father, Visible yellow light rays a picture of the Son, and Blue chemical waves a picture of the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

A better example would be the Sun. The Sun puts our Alpha, Beta and Gamma Rays. These rays are classified as Light, Heat and Actinic rays. Now not one of us here would deny the Sun is one unit, it is not three separate stars, but one star. And anyone who knows the scientific facts knows the Sun puts out Light rays, which can be seen but can't be felt, a picture of the Son. Heat waves, can be felt and not seen, a picture of the Holy Ghost/Spirit. And Actinic rays which cannot be seen nor felt, a picture of the Father.

I think we can see that nature does in fact show forth the godhead in a trinity in one form.

The Scriptures testify that Jesus is One with God. Jesus said if you have seen him you have seen the father, John testified he was the word and word was God also known as the Son of God and he would send a comforter the Holy Ghost/Spirit, in which John said was One with the Father and the Word.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Three manifestation of one being, the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost. Just like three manifestation of Water are still one element, Water, Ice and Vapor/Gas. Just as the Sun is one Star but manifested in three forms Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays. God is manifest in three forms the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.