Why It Shouldn’t Matter If We Repeal The Second Amendment

I feel like the second amendment is soon to get its own spot here on ATS with the way people are pushing agendas. Now before you go off all crazy on a tangent I want you to actually read the article. To me, the title should say "Why It Won't Matter If We Repeal The Second Amendment." But this is not my article so I will keep it as is. Please read this first before replying.

There is no legal right to own a firearm in the United States. The Constitution does not give citizens the right to own weapons, and no legal or historical arguments support the idea that it does.

Reading the first two sentences of this article immediately put me on the defensive, being a firm supporter of the second amendment. But as I read more I couldn't agree more with the points being made.

Instead, a much deeper and more important philosophy provides for gun ownership: natural rights. These rights are not given, but protected. Not to expand citizens’ rights, but to limit government’s power.

In a properly functioning America like the Founders envisioned, a repeal of the Second Amendment would be virtually meaningless. The right existed already; the Constitution merely secures it. Unfortunately, our society has loosened its grasp on natural rights philosophy and devolved into dependency on government-sanctioned rules.

I think a lot of people would stop trying to ban weapons and instead try to understand them once they realize that the government does not grant me the right to bear arms and defend myself. These are a human right granted to me by God, Jesus, or the flying spaghetti monster if that is what you are into. No man or man-made entity has the authority to limit my right to defend myself or my fellow humans.

The Constitution mentions both natural and legal rights, and the distinction is critical. Within the Bill of Rights, some activities, like speech, are innate human rights protected against government interference. Other rights, like a speedy trial, are legal rights, which are products of the structure the Constitution created.

This distinction is crucial, because natural rights are articulated as endowed by God, while legal rights are endowed by government. The Founding Fathers understood natural rights to exist independent of—or in spite of—government. They simply exist for free people walking the earth. Legal rights are granted by men, and can be altered or destroyed by changes to law or the structure of government. The natural and legal rights in the Constitution are so fundamental that the Bill of Rights was added as an explicit bar to encroachment from the federal government.

Today, it is all too clear that if the Second Amendment were not so explicit, the tyranny of the majority would have suppressed the right long ago. The government did not create the right to own a gun, it secured that right, and thank God the Founding Fathers had the foresight to unambiguously prohibit the government from infringing on that right.

Now we can sit here and argue that the second amendment was written with muskets in mind. Or that it only applied to people in a militia. But this is all hogwash and will be ignored as arguments. Why you ask?

Because the founding fathers wrote the constitution with the individual in mind not the militia and when it comes to god given rights there is no argument. There is only your choice to exercise these rights or not. Maybe this should have gone in the rant forum.

Mods you can move if you deem necessary. Or go and create a 2nd Amendment forum.

double post

The 2nd and most of the other amendments are already repealed.

Who do I appeal to about that?

originally posted by: intrptr

The 2nd and most of the other amendments are already repealed.

Who do I appeal to about that?

If you read the article you should know to appeal to your inner self and ask if you are going to allow them to trample your natural rights.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

I like the way you seem to be thinking, good OP, cheers, inspired some thinking in my head.


...only bit I don't buy is god given rights, I only recognise human rights, but obvs if god turned up at my house giving it the large omnipotent thing I'd change my tune!

Benjamin Dierker can go pound sand...... says the majority of America.

Why do you think I constantly say the government has no power to take it away, it can only seek to oppress it?

As you say, things like speech, religion, right to self-defense (keep and bear), right to property, etc., those are things we naturally have, so all government can seek to do is oppress us. It has no power to give or take either one.

Once you start to realize and believe that, then you understand.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

OK, I could get onboard with this way of thinking because I believe in minimum government and maximum personal freedoms and rights - especially as it relates to the cosmos and our existence as sentient beings.

American culture dictates that if 2A was repealed & the gov took confiscation to its full measure, you would finally see just how imprisoned you (we) truly are - I've said it before & I'll say it again - educate your children about the reality of the world, about human history, about community and family values...the US government is coming for your (insert freedom of choice from gun to backpack) and they are masters at deception - keeping you all distracted like the laser pointer and the cat.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Why do you think I constantly say the government has no power to take it away, it can only seek to oppress it?

As you say, things like speech, religion, right to self-defense (keep and bear), right to property, etc., those are things we naturally have, so all government can seek to do is oppress us. It has no power to give or take either one.

Once you start to realize and believe that, then you understand.

Then you are truly awake.

originally posted by: Plotus
Benjamin Dierker can go pound sand...... says the majority of America.

He doesn't need to. I bet he could go shoot sand instead. Unlike the majority of America who would actually have to physically pound sand.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ


Yea I saw that on Yahoo of all places, I don't think they read the entire article just added it because of the title.

While I disagree with some of what the author said the gist I think is right on, the right to self defense is inherent for every person on the planet.

a reply to: Sublimecraft
Means we're screwed in Oz and Englandshire then with our shotguns and 3 inch knives or whatever it is these days with blade length.
London youths are stabbing each other to death in record numbers, a weapon will always be found, and in London it's brutal stat's, people kill people.

Now we can sit here and argue that the second amendment was written with muskets in mind.

No you can't.

The musket was the pinnacle of technology of the era. The assault weapon of it's time.

You can't place limit on a firearm then turn around and use your smart phone to tweet or like something on facebook.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Sublimecraft
Means we're screwed in Oz and Englandshire then with our shotguns and 3 inch knives or whatever it is these days with blade length.
London youths are stabbing each other to death in record numbers, a weapon will always be found, and in London it's brutal stat's, people kill people.

American culture - don't think that because we look the same, that we are the same - we ain't.

Not you, not me - not by a long shot.

Focus.

originally posted by: PraetorianAZ

originally posted by: intrptr

The 2nd and most of the other amendments are already repealed.

Who do I appeal to about that?

If you read the article you should know to appeal to your inner self and ask if you are going to allow them to trample your natural rights.

The gubment gibeth and the taxman taketh away.

I don't really care what they say or do. As you say it is written in our hearts.

It is also written to forgive...

Well, whether it is a god given right or not, if the second amendment is repealed, we will lose our right to own them. Some power hungry people in society want complete control over the rest of us. I guess our god given right either gives us the right to give them up or gives us the right to sit in jail for twenty years. If they repeal the law, we have those choices.

Precedence will be used against us, that has been the way our legal system and government have done it for centuries, that is why the law was so specific as to our right to bear arms.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Sublimecraft
Means we're screwed in Oz and Englandshire then with our shotguns and 3 inch knives or whatever it is these days with blade length.
London youths are stabbing each other to death in record numbers, a weapon will always be found, and in London it's brutal stat's, people kill people.

American culture - don't think that because we look the same, that we are the same - we ain't.

Not you, not me - not by a long shot.

Focus.

What do you mean by focus?
I understand different cultures regarding violence, London you get knifed, Polish blokes will go for the 'fight like a man' thing, saw a fantastic fair boxing fight at the fruit aisle in the supermarket the other day, security didn't get involved just kept public out the way. I was all over it, brilliant fight and the guy my money was on in my head lost lol.
The winner shouted something in Polish probably like "Don't do it again you prick", he left, and matey who lost got up and left as well. How it should be in my opinion.

Its moot at this point. There are over 300 million fire arms in private ownership in the US and more coming off the assembly line as I write this. No amount of enforcement could remove that. Think what you want...like it or not doesn't matter.

Its moot at this point. There are over 300 million fire arms in private ownership in the US and more coming off the assembly line as I write this. No amount of enforcement could remove that. Think what you want...like it or not doesn't matter.

Edit to say: the internet agreed so hard it had to restate it so everyone was clear.

a reply to: RickyD

Talking about the second amendment rights gets you the right to a second post.