You Want Racism? Reality in comedy........

originally posted by: nerbot
I HATE political correctness.

I've always been confused by people who want to make it a point to proclaim their hatred for political correctness. Like it's some matter of pride to proclaim that they enjoy being an asshole or something. I'm going to try a thought experiment.

Whenever you see a black person, do you think it is ok to call them the n word to their face?

If the answer is no then you support at least SOME political correctness.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

but you are forgetting the simple fact that its not political correctness , thats just good manners in a social setting !

these politicians cant say it because it can cause an international scandal or cost you votes.

We arent politicians , we are normal citizens , and so we just have to be moral and have good manners
if you call a black person a 'n-word' to their face, then you are just a #in dickhead and a racist

Political correctness begins and ends in Politics , not in society , that is just being a nice person

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Krazysh0t

but you are forgetting the simple fact that its not political correctness , thats just good manners in a social setting !

Um... Political correctness is all ABOUT being polite in mixed company. That's where it comes from and why it exists. It may get out of hand in many cases these days, but its base form is exactly this.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

There was me thinking that PC culture came into society through diplomatic and political discourse , not through social interactions

Cheers!

a reply to: sapien82

I'd say it grew from the racial strife in the 70's. As the youth of the 70's matured and came of political age by the time the 90's started they really took the idea and ran with it. If you think back to the 90's, the Clintons weren't really doing the black community any favors, but people were already complaining about political correctness run amok by the end of the decade. I know because I was one of those people at the time. So its birth can't be purely political in nature even if politics co-opted the campaign.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nerbot
I HATE political correctness.

I've always been confused by people who want to make it a point to proclaim their hatred for political correctness. Like it's some matter of pride to proclaim that they enjoy being an asshole or something.

The problem with political correctness today is that for the most part is not being used to do good, but rather keep the people fighting among themselves and distracted from the reality of the situation and focused on distractions versus the REAL issues.

a reply to: lordcomac

what a great film. my friends and i used to recite huge swathes of the dialogue word for word, having repeat-watched it so many times we knew every line off by heart. great days.

a reply to: interupt42

I disagree and say that it is a matter of perception and what you will yourself to look at as far as political correctness goes. There is plenty of good that political correctness achieves too. It just gets overshadowed by the bad because negative news sells more news. It's also EXTREMELY easy to look at a few extreme anecdotes and apply them universally even though that is a logical fallacy. But if you think about it, every time you go into a mixed raced crowd of people and the crowd doesn't descend into a mob of racial animosity is political correctness doing good. You'll quickly realize that you experience this FAR more than witnessing political correctness run amok. But its the norm so its easy to take for granted.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I still think at the same time this has nothing to do with politcal correctness , but the ability of humans to be social beings , who can only operate in a social setting and we dont tear each other to pieces because we have far more in common than the differences that divide us , or are used to divide us !
We are united in our ability to socialise and operate together in co-operation because it benefits us to work together.

I think we had managed to get along as a species before politcal correctness was even coined
like you said about taking one extreme and applying it universally , like when one out of the 100 in the crowd is a racist
the extremes are always the minority , because if you go against the grain or are negative then its social exile for you

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I still think at the same time this has nothing to do with politcal correctness , but the ability of humans to be social beings , who can only operate in a social setting and we dont tear each other to pieces because we have far more in common than the differences that divide us , or are used to divide us !

Yes that is the ultimate goal, to show that for every difference between us there are plenty of similarities too. But you can't achieve that goal if everyone hates each other for dumb reasons or can't see how their words are creating animosity towards a certain group of people and fueling more hate even if they don't directly hate anyone themselves.

We are united in our ability to socialise and operate together in co-operation because it benefits us to work together.

I think we had managed to get along as a species before politcal correctness was even coined

Have you read the bible? There are TONS of tales of genocide, racial strife and even slavery. Up until the 60's, black people were practically second class citizens in most of the country. Hell there were parts that codified that into law. Women didn't have the right to vote until the 1900's and even now are still lagging somewhat behind men.

No I disagree here, up until political correctness, "getting along" comprised of the dominant social group in a society dictating love for itself while using minority groups for butts of jokes at the minimum or flat out legislating against them and even up to genocide as the most extreme situation. #, this still happens in other parts of the world. The minority groups could only grit their teeth and pretend to be ok with the status quo. History is brutal. Being nice to each other is a good ideal, but it doesn't seem to be the default position of most humans.

like you said about taking one extreme and applying it universally , like when one out of the 100 in the crowd is a racist
the extremes are always the minority , because if you go against the grain or are negative then its social exile for you

It only takes one bad egg to spoil the bunch.

originally posted by: sapien82

We arent politicians , we are normal citizens , and so we just have to be moral and have good manners
if you call a black person a 'n-word' to their face, then you are just a #in dickhead and a racist

I grew up a long time before many if not all of you, at a time when racism/

racist didn't exist.

As a child, and as with all children we were taught/learnt rhymes and I doubt

if anyone on here would have heard one which began ...*eany meany miney mo*

It didn't mean any more to me, and who ever taught me than it rhymed.

Where it originated I do not know. However today it is racist.


I owned (as did many others) a much loved soft toy a golly, and when I had my own

children they had a golly, when my grandchildren were born, I couldn't find one

and thought I would knit one, and was surprised to find I could not find a pattern

for one and was told by the owner of a wool shop they were not allowed to sell

the pattern, as it would be considered racist! ..... and here was me thinking my

grandchildren would have/love the same cuddly toy that I had done. My children

also collected badges from a certain jam manufacturer's jam. Needless to say it

too no longer is allowed.


In another area along the same lines I needed to become registered to be a child

minder for one of my grandchildren plus a friends child. One the subject of books

and toys I was asked how many black dolls I had and how many books slanted on

ethnicity. How many parents buy their children toys thinking along those lines? I

wonder where I would have stood if I had a golly? yet I was obliged to have a black

doll!! Seems adults push racism as young children dont see it ......

Political correctness begins and ends in Politics , not in society , that is just being a nice person

Some people see whats not intended, and make it their job to opening eyes

to whats not intent.

a reply to: eletheia

Your problem appears to be a problem with how society is changing the way kids are raised.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: eletheia

Your problem appears to be a problem with how society is changing the way kids are raised.

Where as that could be true, It's not so in the way you are meaning.


What I can't get my head around is how things turn from the norm/innocent into

suddenly being not appropriate...... and how black people can use language to

each other and would go beserk at the same thing being said to them by a white

person. The same sentiments seem to change acceptance depending on the colour

of the one who says it

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: eletheia

Your problem appears to be a problem with how society is changing the way kids are raised.

Where as that could be true, It's not so in the way you are meaning.


What I can't get my head around is how things turn from the norm/innocent into

suddenly being not appropriate...... and how black people can use language to

each other and would go beserk at the same thing being said to them by a white

person. The same sentiments seem to change acceptance depending on the colour

of the one who says it

Blackface and minstrel shows were the "norm/innocent" at some time too, but now are seen as very insensitive. Here's a fun history lesson for you. Did you know that the banjo was not originally folk instrument of white people? It came from West Africa, but white people making racist minstrel shows in blackface learned the banjo to make fun of them. As such many of the original masters of the instrument quit it out of embarrassment to being related to minstrel shows. Those "innocent/normal" shows were responsible for destroying a very colorful and rich musical tradition. LUCKILY the banjo's musical tradition recovered and is even seeing a resurgence in modern pop music, but still that is just an example of the damage these supposedly "innocent" things can do.

Also, there are MANY black people who detest the use of the n word even among themselves. I know because I've talked to them before. They just aren't as mainstream because black focused pop culture emphasizes that word too much.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I disagree

Like I tell my wife, its your option to be wrong.

Kidding, LOL

There is plenty of good that political correctness achieves too.

Don't disagree. However, it can also be used to manipulate the people and abused by corporate America to push an agenda or keep the people from seeing the truth in certain issues.

The BLM movement is an example where PC is being used to keep the people from actually fixing the Real issue.
No doubt we have an issue with our Police state and no doubt Black People are effected by it. However, by being PC and not calling out the BLM movement BS ("that its only a racism problem") , the issue is not ever going to be fixed.

The police system in this country has some real issues that effects all races not just black people. The issue is far more complicated than just racism. The real issue is with: antiquated laws, training, standards for hiring, pay, hours of work, working procedure, to quick to trigger , police frat-house mentality, and the victims themselves.

However, due to PC and the MSM narrative we can only focus on racism when it comes to police brutality nor can we call out the stupidity of the victims for charging a police officer that has a loaded gun pointing at them in some cases.

In addition, PC is riddled with hypocrisy in this country and its not about being fair and equal but rather payback ,victimization, and vilification of groups.

Its completely ok and PC to jump to the conclusion that the whiteman is to blame for everything without any facts.

The funny thing is you go back about 2 or 3 decades ago and the PC thing back then was to blame the black man for everything . I remember watching the news when I was younger and wondered why it was always a black man that was posted in the news that robbed a person? Now the boogy man is the whiteman in the news. We went from one extreme to another as to what is acceptable and I question that.

Is the PC strategy being imposed by the MSM and the DNC(for the most part when it comes to 'ism') doing more good now or making racism worse by using their methods of grouping all minorities into the victim group and all the white males into the villian group?

The issue with this is that most normal people don't want to be a victim nor a villian, so this PC strategy that makes it racist to question things or challenge the issue will only lead to further animosity,hate, and anger among the races.

And no I don't think the GOP is any better as they play along with the DNC, and the MSM to appease the corporate oligarch narrative ,but the DNC is leading the charge on the extreme PC stuff .

Glad to see this

Tired of all the whiney a## cry babies using the race card. It is always an excuse too, either making up for some personal inadequacy or using it to falsely attack others.

And I always tell them: proof or you're full of it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Did you know that the banjo was not originally folk instrument of white people?

So you agree that culture creep/cultural appropriation is undesirable?

That arguments goes both ways.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I disagree

Like I tell my wife, its your option to be wrong.

Kidding, LOL

There is plenty of good that political correctness achieves too.

Don't disagree. However, it can also be used to manipulate the people and abused by corporate America to push an agenda or keep the people from seeing the truth in certain issues.

I can say the EXACT, SAME thing about the anti-political correctness movement though. I see it all the time here on ATS with people producing singular anecdotes and positioning it like they are the norm. And there are more than a few conservative news outlets that are more than happy to push a hyperbolic agenda against political correctness to get clicks to their website.

The BLM movement is an example where PC is being used to keep the people from actually fixing the Real issue.
No doubt we have an issue with our Police state and no doubt Black People are effected by it. However, by being PC and not calling out the BLM movement BS ("that its only a racism problem") , the issue is not ever going to be fixed.

The police system in this country has some real issues that effects all races not just black people. The issue is far more complicated than just racism. The real issue is with: antiquated laws, training, standards for hiring, pay, hours of work, working procedure, to quick to trigger , police frat-house mentality, and the victims themselves.

True, but you can't discount that racism DOES play some role too. The statistics of black people suffering higher incarceration rates than other minorities speak for themselves. All one has to do is look at the number of white people put in jail for pot versus black people and you'll see the unfair racial disparity.

However, due to PC and the MSM narrative we can only focus on racism when it comes to police brutality nor can we call out the stupidity of the victims for charging a police officer that has a loaded gun pointing at them in some cases.

In addition, PC is riddled with hypocrisy in this country and its not about being fair and equal but rather payback ,victimization, and vilification of groups.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending this behavior here because I certainly don't agree with retaliation, but can you blame them? After spending pretty much all of history being # on, they finally get a say. That's a lot of pent of anger to get through. It's pretty much inevitable that people will take the opportunity to get even. It takes the bigger man to stand aside and let them work through their anger so that the cycle of hatred ends. If that person is the minority or the white person it doesn't matter. The cycle won't end until someone lets bygones be bygones.

Its completely ok and PC to jump to the conclusion that the whiteman is to blame for everything without any facts.

I feel like this statement needs nuance attached to it. White people DID build our Euro-centric society so they would shoulder the primary blame for most of society's quirks. Anti-PC people like to talk about how the truth is above political correctness, well this IS a truth about racial development in society.

The funny thing is you go back about 2 or 3 decades ago and the PC thing back then was to blame the black man for everything . I remember watching the news when I was younger and wondered why it was always a black man that was posted in the news that robbed a person? Now the boogy man is the whiteman in the news. We went from one extreme to another as to what is acceptable and I question that.

Er... The "big scary black man" narrative is not PC. That's fear mongering, stereotyping, and maybe even racism. That's the opposite of PC.

Is the PC strategy being imposed by the MSM and the DNC(for the most part when it comes to 'ism') doing more good now or making racism worse by using their methods of grouping all minorities into the victim group and all the white males into the villian group?

Let's try a different avenue of approach. Did wife beatings go away in the 1950's when it was the norm not to talk about it and pretend it wasn't an issue?

The issue with this is that most normal people don't want to be a victim nor a villian, so this PC strategy that makes it racist to question things or challenge the issue will only lead to further animosity,hate, and anger among the races.

Change is never accepted 100% willingly. Especially DRASTIC social changes like what political correctness demands. The backlash was inevitable.

And no I don't think the GOP is any better as they play along with the DNC, and the MSM to appease the corporate oligarch narrative ,but the DNC is leading the charge on the extreme PC stuff .

Meanwhile the GOP leads the charge on the "right to be an asshole whenever you want" charge. It's the same coloring book. Just a different page. At the end of the day any and all political forces will attempt drastic and underhanded methods to push their ideology.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Did you know that the banjo was not originally folk instrument of white people?

So you agree that culture creep/cultural appropriation is undesirable?

That arguments goes both ways.

Hmmm? I was just bringing up an example of how racist norms hurt the development of an instrument's musical theory. I never mentioned my position on culture creep or cultural appropriation. I happen to LOVE Bluegrass music and the banjo is a cornerstone of it. That doesn't mean I approve of their usage during the minstrel shows.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I can say the EXACT, SAME thing about the anti-political correctness movement though. I see it all the time here on ATS with people producing singular anecdotes and positioning it like they are the norm. And there are more than a few conservative news outlets that are more than happy to push a hyperbolic agenda against political correctness to get clicks to their website.

And you would be right. BOTH party have become about extremes and agenda driven.

True, but you can't discount that racism DOES play some role too. The statistics of black people suffering higher incarceration rates than other minorities speak for themselves. All one has to do is look at the number of white people put in jail for pot versus black people and you'll see the unfair racial disparity.

Agreed, but its not PC to look at the WHOLE picture why that might be the case. Sure in some cases its racism but I bet culture and environment also has a lot to do with it, but that is not PC to discuss. While it might be uncomfortable and awkward to discuss, it certainly cant be taken off the table if you really want to address the issue.

BTW I'm not white and came to this country at a young age with absolutely nothing and grew up poor. I can tell you a big reason I was able to escape poverty and and get an education was because of my family and using the gov't assistance to get on our feet versus being complacent with being on the system.

My mother took care of 9 of us including my olderly aunt , uncle and grandparents while cleaning hotel rooms and picking strawberries . My mother was the only one that could work and provide for us as my father had died before we came to this country. Throughout the whole time we she drilled into our heads that only ourself can choose to call it quits at the hurdles that life throws at us and that education is the ONLY way to a better future. The minute she was able to afford to get us off welfare she did and she used that assistance and sacrificed her own happiness and youth to provide for us to make sure we had it easier than she did when we got older.

Within my own cuban community I saw some people blame everything and everyone for not getting ahead despite abusing the system. Sure its frustrating,unfair and difficult but sometimes you have to look at yourself and sacrifice yourself for your children to break the cycle. I didn't get any scholarships or govt assistant when I started college. I chose to go to a community college for as long as I could to keep my costs down and worked full time while attending college. My parents (mother remarried) worked and sacrificed themselves aswell to also help me pay for my school.

Sure we had luck , great friends that helped , and even local merchants that helped , but I can tell you that blaming anyone but yourself does more harm than good from what i have seen. You can only fix the circumstances your are in or the path you want to take for the future by going over all the speed bumps life throws at you , versus waiting for the speed bump to disapear. Blaming others or circumstances is of no value to yourself. The ones that focused on the speed bumps of life and blamed everyone else for not getting ahead are still in the same place from what I saw.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending this behavior here because I certainly don't agree with retaliation, but can you blame them?

I rather not focus on blaming anyone , i just would like to look at the complete picture and really try to make things better. From what I see the strategy being used is actually more focused on blame than actually resolving the issue.

White people DID build our Eurocentric society so they would shoulder the primary blame for most of society's quirks.

But lest not forget that Black tribesman also sold the opposing captured black people to those Europeans. There is no race that has cleans hands when it comes to human atrocities.


However, sometimes to move ahead you got to stop with putting the primary focus on the blame game and concentrate on what do we need to do to move ahead. It gets to the point where focusing on the blame becomes counterintuitive and this is where I think we are at. We have created two groups one of victims and one of villians and that is not actually the reality nor helpful.

Er... The "big scary black man" narrative is not PC. That's fear mongering, stereotyping, and maybe even racism. That's the opposite of PC.

IT WAS PC back in the sense it was OK to discuss such thing openly in the MSM without anyone questioning, just like today its PC to call the white man privileged and racist without a second thought.

Let's try a different avenue of approach. Did wife beatings go away in the 1950's when it was the norm not to talk about it and pretend it wasn't an issue?

I didn't say all PC is bad or didn't serve a purpose. What I'm questioning today is , if the extreme PC of today has reached a point where it might be doing more harm than good?

Change is never accepted 100% willingly. Especially DRASTIC social changes like what political correctness demands. The backlash was inevitable.

Dont disagree, but there are certain ways to decrease the amount of backlash and the way its being handled today is not the way of doing it.

Meanwhile the GOP leads the charge on the "right to be an asshole whenever you want" charge

Like I said the GOP is certainly not Innocent on any of this but when it comes to racism and grouping people into victims and villians the DNC has the Microphone. Well when it comes to racism anyways, when it comes to terrorism and fear mongering the GOP has the Microphone.