Proof Illegals should be shot on site...........

Originally posted by Byrd
You know, for every crime committed by illegal aliens (or even legal immigrants), there are thosands commited by American citizens.

Many of those are Caucasian males.

So if you're going to shoot the criminal elements of the illegal immigrants (assuming you can identify them), then you need to first get out there and start whacking those awful Caucasians.

oh DEAR byrd! how DARE you say something against the good Doctor!

[edit on 19-2-2005 by Daystar]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Excellent! But you know that many Europeans
would whine that it was cruel to the illegal aliens
even though it would be their own fault that they
got blown up.

Ahhhh... the ritual European-bashing is here... predictable

when you guys cant take a voice of reason anymore, you start taking swipes at them, be they europeans, or liberal americans

I cannot believe I actually read all six pages of this thread...

The problem of illegal immigrants is a complex one. Time magazine did a pretty interesting feature on it last summer... and although illegals are certainly a problem, you have to factor in that smuggling illegals is a lucrative business for some... including some American factories (meat packers and such) who periodically place "orders" for cheap (read illegal) labor when they have a work crunch. So part of the problem is on the American side - in those factories and in the networks that provide illegals for them.

The other thing is, let's face it, it's getting a lot harder to immigrate legally these days. I looked over the rules and paperwork for a work visa (having an American girlfriend, it was natural to do so) and concluded that as a Canadian with a Masters degree it would be pretty hard for me to settle and work in the U.S... so imagine unskilled workers. It's normal for a country to want the very best in immigrants - doctors, athletes, computer programmers - but in that case, it also means that the days of "Give me your poor, your hungry, etc." are long gone.

And Horacid - I understand your outrage at the crime that illegal immigrant committed, but you can't blame all the illegals for that. Criminal minds have no race or nationality, as Scott Peterson proved.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
That's really a brainless thing to say. I have already said that
I don't go for shooting them.

"deadly force allowed if needed. "
Are you guys going to resort to knife throwing or archery then?
Hell use a good old B-52 strike, that'll sort em!

You are a piece of work.

Yes I am, But a good hearted and high moral standing peice.

However, I do not think we should be 'helping' illegals in any
way except to ship them back where they came from and erect
higher walls to keep them the hell out. Higher walls, US Army on
the boarder patrolling, deadly force allowed if needed.

Why?
The US is already "helping" in countries around the world...SK, Bosnia, vietnam and iraq and afgahnistan....now tell me now are you trying to say that the US is NOT helping people?
Infact, shouldnt you deport yourselves from all those countries?
Since you are illegally imigrateing there.
I thought the US army was already there, or is that a militia?

I am sick and tired of illegals being rewarded for breaking the law. I welcome any immigrant that wishes to become American. Isn't that suppose to be the reason they come to this country? But I can't figure out why illegals are allowed to work under the table when everyone knows who they are and what they're doing. Instead of paying income tax that could boost the economy, they send money home to benifits Mexico. Why is the fact they drive without a license and insurance tolerated? Why are they exempt from paying for treatment at hospitals based on inability to provide legal ID. An American without medical insurance will be paying back his bill for years. Pregnant illegals automatically qualify for government sponsored prenatal carel as well as Welware. How ironic that Bush plans new efforts to implement the Welware to Work programs designed to get women off aid. Why are Mexican illegals not encouraged to assimilate and learn English. Some Wifes of illegals I've worked with for over 5 years, still can't ask for their Husbands in English when they call. Come on, even I have learned some Spanish without even trying. It's as though they deliberately refuse to acknowledge it even though it's still the national langage isn't it? But most disturbing is that all the illegals I work with have made it clear to their American co-workers, that they have contempt for America and especially for Americans. They even dislike the legal immigrants and vise versa. I am personally sick of hearing the constant slur against my people and country. Lately some have gone as far as to threaten to reclaim their country. With this I remind them, they can then give it back to the Native Americans. I live in the blue collar town of San Pablo. Once equally populated by Blacks and Whites, its now 95 % Mexican. No English is spoken at the local businesses, billboards are entirely in Spanish and the downtown has been revamped with Adobe facades painted in Mexicn pastels. I am the outsider here but refuse to be forced from my home.

DayStar claims that the Dr's proposal is,

what you suggest is nothing short of murder.

Actually its FAR from murder....when you approach a marked area and are warned that if found in this area you could be shot....who exactly is violating whom by your refusal to stay out of the area in question? The blame for you getting shot would lie squarly on YOUR shoulders if you choose to tresspass, reguardless for your possible "noble" reason for doing so or your percieved notion over weather the punnishment fits the crime (getting shot for illegal immagration) is justice or isnt.

Any nation has the right to defend its boarders at much as they'd like, INCLUDING shooting people illegally crossing (the N+S Korean boarder ring a bell?) As much as i sense the Dr's frustrations leading him twords this more violent approach, i cant condem him for speaking his mind about this.

I would not want to put a face on our nation where we shot people illegally immigrating, but cant say that making such a policy would be wrong either.

We have a right and OBLIGATION to defend our boarders, this includes use of any means nessisary.

If you are trying to emmigrate illegally, realize that there are negative results you may suffer because you choose to violate our soveringty.
One of them could indeed include being shot.

I dont care about your personal reason for wanting to violate our boarders,
there is no excuse that removes my right to keep you out. YOU choose to commit the violation, we're not forcing anyone to illegally immigrate.

Gazrok shows wisdom and restraint,

Rapists should be shot perhaps, but using the actions of one to justify the advocating of shooting a particular group...??? That's certainly hateful speech...and a violation of the TOS. I'll hold off on a warn at the moment, but note that it would fall under this.

I dont feel that questioning increasing penalties for illegal imigration to include being shot when found crossing is worthy of a warn, however some of the expressive use of terms like vile, filthy and such are indeed right on the edge of the "civil tung" line on ATS.

Sensfan asks,

Can someone please tell me how DrHoracid has not been banned from this board due to his inflamitory posts and attitude?

I agree that some of the Dr's posts skirt the edge,
BUT,
We would only be embracing ignorance to ban speech or ideas that we dont like.....its self blinding to not get to hear the way the Dr feels and what he'd like to see done about it. NOW you know there are really people with his feelings. These feelings, while radicle and expressing extremism, need to be heard so we can say "we considered it, no thanks".

Just look at Dollmonsters post as an example of the frustration that people living in the areas most affected by this issue have.
In order for this issue to be understood, we NEED to hear these opinions and radicle ideas, even if most of us dont agree with them. Even if they are "hateful".
Failure to hear them only limits our insight, and this is why i feel this thread has been allowed to continue, as well as why a warn was wisely withheld.
The Dr isnt singling out any one group other than "people attempting to illegally immigrate"...that could be any nationality caught climbing the fence.

Why is it wrong to "hate" let alone express it? (not including threats)
Dont we have the right to hate something if we have the right to love something?

You have a right to protect your borders, but a lone person with no weapons isnt a threat.
It is far from murder, more like genocide.
Would you like us to place rapier sam sites at airports to shoot down planes from america because some one MIGHT try and live here illegaly?

Devilwasp says,

Would you like us to place rapier sam sites at airports to shoot down planes from america because some one MIGHT try and live here illegaly?

If the plane was trying to SNEAK illegally into your airspace, SURE shoot it down.

Again the reason someone is violating YOUR soveringty is irrelavent!
Weather they are armed or not is also irrelavent.
You have stated your defense of your boarder and made it clear what would happen if they attempt to violate it.
How is shooting people that are willingly doing something they KNOW could get them shot, genocide?
Sounds more like asking for trouble if you ask me.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by CazMedia]

Originally posted by CazMedia
If the plane was trying to SNEAK illegally into your airspace, SURE shoot it down.

Firstly a plane can be diverted and wouldnt get shot down at all if they didnt respond to any cominication we would believe its a wounded jet and aim towards the nearest airport or shoot it down.

Again the reason someone is violating YOUR soveringty is irrelavent!

Wait wait wait, your soveringty?
The soverignty you "earn" is by simply being born here, for them they need to know more about american history and culture than most americans do.

Weather they are armed or not is also irrelavent.

Most americans are armed, is that not dangerous?

You have stated your defense of your boarder and made it clear what would happen if they attempt to violate it.

Actually I have stated an extreme the same level of extreme the doctor is suggesting.

How is shooting people that are willingly doing something they KNOW could get them shot, genocide?

Because these people probably dont know its illegal, they come from a dirt hole come on!
It is not genocide to shoot someone poseing harm to someone, its genocide when you shoot them for crossing a fence line !

Sounds more like asking for trouble if you ask me.
[edit on 7-3-2005 by CazMedia]

Well I aint!