Tesla under investigation for fraud?

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: schuyler


I should have been clearer, I was referring to all of the units owned/managed by Musk.

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies. Older story but the money went to them.

Not much doubt that huge new factory cost a bomb...the cars seem to be selling okay though, quite a few around here even. The new 3 series though, it looks a duck as seen, they need to do something quickly with that!

I guess it depends where you live. I think I've seen maybe 3-4 in my life.

originally posted by: Plotus
www.msn.com... Curiously Tesla was not listed.

Ummm...not only that...Bell and Boeing were listed twice in two different categories...





YouSir

I always thought that Tesla was nothing more than a tech gimmick to make people think that we all were on the verge of a revolutionary change with motorized vehicles. NOPE. All that bs talk about eventually making Tesla's affordable to the general public, yeah never saw that come to fruition. Not to mention the lack of oversight at the company to produce vehicles in general, I barely see any teslas being driven out on the roads as it is.

Elon Musk to me seems like a guy that could really change the word we live in but based on how he runs his companies and his character, he looks like he is more concerned with elevating himself to some imaginary platform to showcase to the world he is the one true innovator...

Where are the solar panel houses? The gigawatt power plants? The Mars mission? The millions of electric cars on the roads? The high speed travel tubes? The technology revolution?

WHERE? In his bank account. I can't stand Elon Musk, nothing but a snake oil salesman.

Teslas are extremely popular around here. They are a dime a dozen. Most of the people that have them absolutely rave about them.

I think they are getting more popular as everyone knows it is the fastest car 0-60 and 1/4 mile you can buy.

I've only seen one Model 3 in the wild though here in Chicago. They really dropped the ball on getting it to market, but I think they will continue to improve.

I think Tesla's biggest issue will be that the major manufacturers are starting to put together legit options for those that want electric cars. BMW, Porsche, etc. Tesla will need to keep innovating and pushing design and performance. Their advantage is that they aren't beholden to the old way of doing things (dealership model and designing cars around i/c engines).

Many start ups don't make a ton of money for years. The capital requirements for a car company are immense, but as long as investors continue to believe in the product I think they will be able to go more years without making a profit. Remember, Amazon was losing money hand over first when they first started too.

Musk is a con-artist of legendary proportions. Tesla has never been profitable in 15 years and never will be (it's really not a startup after 15 years). He was only able to thrive under the inflow of government loans, backroom deals, and media sycophants. I basically expect any day to wake up to another Enron-type situation with him. Maybe he can just blast himself off into space so we won't have to look at him again.

a reply to: Edumakated

I think they are getting more popular as everyone knows it is the fastest car 0-60 and 1/4 mile you can buy.

Yeah, not even close, but they are a lot quicker than I thought. The fast one isn't the one you see all over, it has the "ludacris upgrade"

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: Edumakated

I think they are getting more popular as everyone knows it is the fastest car 0-60 and 1/4 mile you can buy.

Yeah, not even close, but they are a lot quicker than I thought. The fast one isn't the one you see all over, it has the "ludacris upgrade"

The slowest Tesla the p75 does 0-60 in 4.2 secs. The p100d in ludicrous mode does it in 2.5 seconds. Even the slow one blows the doors off all but the most expensive sports cars and I'd wager the Tesla would still win because electric spools up way faster than an ic engine, so your average Joe stop light racing won't have the skills to get it off the line as fast as a housewife in a Tesla.

My neighbor has an earlier version and it still did 0-60 in low 5s.

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

they aren't really operating at a loss that's just clever book keeping and a wonderful accounts payable department

a reply to: Edumakated

what's that channel

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: Edumakated

I think they are getting more popular as everyone knows it is the fastest car 0-60 and 1/4 mile you can buy.

Yeah, not even close, but they are a lot quicker than I thought. The fast one isn't the one you see all over, it has the "ludacris upgrade"

The slowest Tesla the p75 does 0-60 in 4.2 secs. The p100d in ludicrous mode does it in 2.5 seconds. Even the slow one blows the doors off all but the most expensive sports cars and I'd wager the Tesla would still win because electric spools up way faster than an ic engine, so your average Joe stop light racing won't have the skills to get it off the line as fast as a housewife in a Tesla.

My neighbor has an earlier version and it still did 0-60 in low 5s.

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

And therein lies the answer. All that "good stuff" means absolutely nothing to the common person. Notice how all auto commercials have dropped that 0-60 stuff years ago ?
Now , if this was the 70s I would be all in....

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Edumakated

what's that channel

Tesla Racing Channel is a popular one. Just some kid filming his Tesla beating cars at drag strips.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Edumakated

what's that channel

Here is a Tesla putting a hurting on a Lambo Aventor in 1/4 mile. The SUV no less... Keep in mind the Model X is a 150k car... The Lambo a $500k car...

originally posted by: Edumakated

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

it probably wont do so well against those in an endurance race though

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: Edumakated

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

it probably wont do so well against those in an endurance race though

Yeah, it isn't a top speed contender (or long distance) but that is irrelevant. No one drives 200 mph (well not legally) on public highways so top speed is kind of stupid bragging point. I'd rather have blistering 0-60 (on ramp fun baby) and hard acceleration from 40-90mph (passing times on highway).

Electric cars are far more efficient in power delivery than a gas engine. Electric has 100% of the torque available at 1 RPM versus a car engine that needs to spool up to get into the optimal power band. This is why the Tesla can accelerate so much faster.

You will notice on that video I posted the trap speeds of the gas cars are actually faster than the Tesla though... The Tesla tops out while the gas car is still pulling. I'd guess over a 1 mile the Lambo would probably pass the Tesla but again, that is kind of pointless.

I think jumping too quick to placing all blame on them alone, is nasa angry they sent a car to space without the expenditure? There not on the list of companies owing top dollers.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: Edumakated

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

it probably wont do so well against those in an endurance race though

Yeah, it isn't a top speed contender (or long distance) but that is irrelevant. No one drives 200 mph (well not legally) on public highways so top speed is kind of stupid bragging point. I'd rather have blistering 0-60 (on ramp fun baby) and hard acceleration from 40-90mph (passing times on highway).

Electric cars are far more efficient in power delivery than a gas engine. Electric has 100% of the torque available at 1 RPM versus a car engine that needs to spool up to get into the optimal power band. This is why the Tesla can accelerate so much faster.

You will notice on that video I posted the trap speeds of the gas cars are actually faster than the Tesla though... The Tesla tops out while the gas car is still pulling. I'd guess over a 1 mile the Lambo would probably pass the Tesla but again, that is kind of pointless.

You're not taking home the Nordic Chick w/Blue Eyes and hour glass figure home in a Tesla..

And another news clip www.slashgear.com...

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: Edumakated

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

it probably wont do so well against those in an endurance race though

Yeah, it isn't a top speed contender (or long distance) but that is irrelevant. No one drives 200 mph (well not legally) on public highways so top speed is kind of stupid bragging point. I'd rather have blistering 0-60 (on ramp fun baby) and hard acceleration from 40-90mph (passing times on highway).

i can also say that a 0-60 and 40-90 time that of a tesla is also irrelevant unless you want lots of speeding tickets.

perhaps you want blistering acceleration, but it isnt necessary on a public road unless you are not afraid of getting fined.

just saying, comparing well rounded vehicles to an acceleration monster aint exactly right.

p.s. i wasnt concerned about the top speed, more of track ability and endurance.

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: Edumakated

There isn't a car made right now that will out accelerate a Tesla and if you do find one, it will probably cost you like $1 million and is hardly a "daily driver". There is an entire Youtube channel with nothing but Teslas destroying any and every car on the drag strip. Hellcats, 911s, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

it probably wont do so well against those in an endurance race though

Yeah, it isn't a top speed contender (or long distance) but that is irrelevant. No one drives 200 mph (well not legally) on public highways so top speed is kind of stupid bragging point. I'd rather have blistering 0-60 (on ramp fun baby) and hard acceleration from 40-90mph (passing times on highway).

i can also say that a 0-60 and 40-90 time that of a tesla is also irrelevant unless you want lots of speeding tickets.

perhaps you want blistering acceleration, but it isnt necessary on a public road unless you are not afraid of getting fined.

just saying, comparing well rounded vehicles to an acceleration monster aint exactly right.

p.s. i wasnt concerned about the top speed, more of track ability and endurance.

What can be more well rounded than a four door sedan? An SUV is about as well rounded as you can get spanking a lambo that requires you to be a yoga master to get in the car.

Blistering acceleration is the performance that is most useful on the public road. I ride motorcycles and it is the one thing that keeps me safe is being able to out run most cars. It isn't about speeding, but being able to pass quickly. For example, being able to accelerate hard from 40-75 to pass an 18 wheeler quicker is safer.

While Tesla's are fast, the do lack a certain character. Almost too sterile. There is something visceral about the controlled explosions in a gas engine and the noise. The rumble, the back fire. All of that makes gas cars enjoyable.

You'll never see compilations like this with Teslas...

originally posted by: toysforadults
they aren't really operating at a loss that's just clever book keeping and a wonderful accounts payable department

Oh yes, they certainly do operate at a loss. They've had rounds of fundraising at least once per year every year of the company's existence. The company is currently sitting on billions of dollars of debt.