The True Mayan Prophesy: Why We Are So Angry

a reply to: TheRedneck

While this is no doubt true as of the instant in time the page was written, those coordinates will change over time.

Yes, because of precession, mostly (our motion through the Galaxy is very slow, relatively). That's why the celestial (RA/Dec) system changes with "epochs." The galactic system, not so much.
astronomy.swin.edu.au...

And if that is true, would it not be possible that others may have been aware of such cyclic changes by observing them and the heavenly correlations over an extended civilization?

Were the Maya here 30 million years ago, when we passed through the actual plane of the Galaxy? Or are you talking about precession? Which has nothing to do with our location in the Milky Way.

a reply to: Phage

Yes, because of precession, mostly (our motion through the Galaxy is very slow, relatively). That's why the celestial (RA/Dec) system changes with "epochs." The galactic system, not so much.

Not just our motion, but the motion of every body in the Milky Way, with the possible exception of a theorized super-massive black hole at the center. If that exists, it might be considered the origin point of the galaxy. Every other object is in some sort of orbit, along with perturbations in those orbits. Thus, even the galactic coordinate system will change over time.

One could think of it as observing the solar system from earth. We know where the various planets will be in our range of vision on a particular night, but that is often an illusion we see compared to where they really are. The first man who stood upright on two legs saw stars, but we have only recently discovered where the planets (the 'wandering stars') really are in relation to the solar system itself. We now know that the solar system varies slightly from day to day because not all the planetary orbits are even aligned with the plane of the solar system.

The same principle applies to the Milky Way even more so, because of the extreme distances and inherent inaccuracies in measurement.

Were the Maya here 30 million years ago, when we passed through the actual plane of the Galaxy? Or are you talking about precession? Which has nothing to do with our location in the Milky Way.

I do not know when the Aztec civilization (which is where much of the Mayan calendar was derived) was here, although I would estimate they appeared less than 30 million years ago. However, the Maya do not speak of a 30 million year cycle; they speak of a 26,000 year cycle, and it is that cycle we are discussing.

You seem to think the only two perturbations in the solar system's orbit in the Milky Way are due to this 30 million year cycle and precession (which is not even related; it is a visual phenomenon only). Do you have a link to show there are definitely no other perturbations in the solar system's orbit?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

You seem to think the only two perturbations in the solar system's orbit in the Milky Way are due to this 30 million year cycle and precession (which is not even related; it is a visual phenomenon only). Do you have a link to show there are definitely no other perturbations in the solar system's orbit?

Actually, precession is more than a "visual phenomenon," it is a the physical movement of where the Earth's rotational axis points. But I suppose, in your terms, that the Sun crossing the galactic equator twice each year is also a "visual phenomenon only."

You're asking for a link for a negative? Would you like one that says there are definitely no unicorns too? Sorry, no. I have no such link. But I thought your premise was based on moving through the galactic plane. We've been there, done that. A long time ago, not on December 21, 2012.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Are you saying that the gravitational pull of the moon is different during a full moon?

originally posted by: craig732
a reply to: TheRedneck

Are you saying that the gravitational pull of the moon is different during a full moon?

the combined effect of pull on a new moon is 1.5 times what it would be without the sun pulling in the same direction. Its additive based on where the sun and moon are in relation to each other and you..

why else would full moons and new moons have higher tides than other moon phases?

strength and direction count.


as far as the thread as a whole Im not really seeing it and i posed 2 questions vital to this whole thing..

When did we actually go through the highest gravity pull (potentially at the galactic plane, but I have doubts about that mattering)???

and more importantly, how does gravity effect consciousness??

a reply to: Phage

Actually, precession is more than a "visual phenomenon," it is a the physical movement of where the Earth's rotational axis points.

Which means it is phenomena which can be viewed only from our perspective.

You're asking for a link for a negative? Would you like one that says there are definitely no unicorns too?

Yes, please.

Actually, my premise is based on moving through an area of space which has greater (or possibly lesser, although I have been debating greater) gravitational flow than we are used to, or an area which has a greater rate of change of gravitational flow than we are used to. I suggest that may be due to the Mayan claim of crossing a galactic plane wherein such conditions exist. Your inability to provide a link to a negative reinforces my point that we do not yet know if such a proposal has merit.

Until we know, it is something that, in my opinion, should be entertained. Until we know for a fact that unicorns do not exist, I see no problem with entertaining that possibility either. Science should keep an open mind, even when confronted with seemingly improbable suggestions.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I suggest that may be due to the Mayan claim of crossing a galactic plane wherein such conditions exist.

I thought it was the galactic plane. How many planes does the galaxy have, do you think? Did you mean astral plane?

Your OP.

But the change in the case of the Mayan calendar coincided with the exact moment the sun crossed the midpoint of the galactic plane,

(Which it didn't, btw. It crossed the galactic equator, just like always. Twice, each year.)


Until we know for a fact that gravity flows, there isn't much to go on.

a reply to: Phage

How many planes does the galaxy have, do you think?

I don't think; I know. Any 3-D region has an infinite number of planes.

As I explained already, my suggestion was due to the fact that, based on a more substantial theory I have been working on, the gravitational flow is greater along the rim of a disk than in other areas. You seem to be more intent on trying to confuse the concept than consider it, Phage.

That's fine, though. Puts me in good historic company.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't think; I know. Any 3-D region has an infinite number of planes.

But you were talking about one, in particular, in the OP.

You seem to be more intent on trying to confuse the concept than consider it, Phage.

Hardly. I'm pointing out, as have others, that using the Mayan calendar and the solstice of December 2012 doesn't really add much credibility to your hypothesis. It is you who "confused the concept" by making that 2012 nonsense integral to your argument. GIGO.

The Sun crosses the galactic equator twice each year. The Solar System crossed the galactic plane millions of years ago and won't do so again until many millions have passed.

Keep howling at the Moon though. It helps relieve anger.

a reply to: Phage

Yes, I was referring to a plane that bisects the galaxy in such a way as to equally divide the gravitational effects deriving from the various masses contained in the galaxy into equal parts. Such a plane need not be stable, but would rather represent a central plane of gravitational effects resulting from the summation of all massive bodies inhabiting the galaxy at any particular point in time.

That is the exact definition I was going for. I thought it was fairly self-evident from the overall idea, but apparently not to you. I suppose you wanted me to write that paragraph instead of two words.

I really have no issue with anyone questioning the validity of what I proposed; it is the questioning that usually leads to greater understanding. That is why Theses are defended in front of professionals when attempting a Masters degree, or Dissertations for a Doctorate. Reverbs above is a great example; he has asked two poignant questions which I am still considering; I really have no answer for him. But the fact that he questioned my reasoning makes me re-evaluate my position.

I do have somewhat of a problem when the primary tactic used to oppose the concept I proposed is to try to define it out of existence. That is your tactic, Phage, and while you are very good with links and have a somewhat scientific mind, that intellectually lazy tactic discredits you and creates a stifling effect for a great many people who simply don't want to deal with the tactic. You oppose science with your intellectual laziness, Phage, and you are better than that.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah.
Well.
This thread isn't about me. Is it?
It's about the Maya and December 21, 2012 and the Moon, and gravity and it's effect on the human psyche. And "the end of the world", and stuff.

The Mayan connection is nonsense. The Moon, questionable. Other than that, you've just vaguely talked about the "flow of gravity."

a reply to: Phage



No, it's not about you.

Maybe that's your problem with it.

TheRedneck

To everyone else:

I would like to apologize for the recent dissolution of this thread into semantics and useless talking points. Other posters have certainly given me much food for thought and I would like to thank you all. Please feel free to post any more concerns about this theory, or better yet, alternatives to my proposal. You are what makes science work by your realistic skepticism combined with open-mindedness, and I thank you for it.

I now (hopefully) return you to the real conversation.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Phage

Wow I always thought the the vertical cycle was also 26000 years.
Thanks for the correction, mate

originally posted by: TheRedneck



I do not know when the Aztec civilization (which is where much of the Mayan calendar was derived) was here, although I would estimate they appeared less than 30 million years ago. However, the Maya do not speak of a 30 million year cycle; they speak of a 26,000 year cycle, and it is that cycle we are discussing.

An approximately 26.000 year cycle have been explained in great detail by Yogic sages, its implacation and effect on the evolution of human consciousness, maybe there is a correlation with the maya cycles?

Sri Yukteswar, the guru of Paramahansa Yogananda explained the cycle(Yugas) in the book, 'Holy sciences'' from 1894, the cycle is based on our solar systems trajectory around a larger star which takes approximately 24-25.xxx years to complete, while further away from this star the consciousness is at its lowest possibility( explained as kali Yuga, dark or material age), when closest to the star we rise to our highest possibilites(Satya yuga, golden or spiritual age) and are enlightened regarding the nature of existance.

The great war mentioned in Mahabharta, when ''Krishna'' is alive marks the end of Dwapara Yuga and the beginning of Kali Yuga 36 years after the war, in 3114 BC, oddly i found this correlates with the long count mesoamerican start of mythological creation, August 11, 3114 BCE, of course the Yugas mentioned in the ancient Vedic texts talks about cycles of much longer time spans, still i find this info fascinating.

Recently another Yogi, explained this a bit different in his own words, but still close enough to the info given by the renowned sage, Sri Yukteswar over a century ago.
www.youtube.com...
Begins at 2:40.
Full video.
www.youtube.com...

P.S. Accoring to this information, we're currently in the upper movement of Dwapara Yuga towards Treta Yuga(mental age), Dwapara Yuga is also explained as ''energy age'', the science of the past century, especially E = mc², seems to perfectly match the description of the evolution of mans consciousness in Dwapara Yuga.

a reply to: Omnik

I took so long to reply because I wanted to check this out in more detail. So far what i am finding is a 24,000 year cycle, caused by the sun in dual orbit with another star. This sounds completely plausible, because scientists have stated that the sun is unique in part because most stars are part of a binary pair. A binary partner far enough away would be difficult to detect.

The result of such a binary pairing would be that the path through the galaxy would undergo a 24,000 year aberration cycle, which is exactly what the Mayans indicate in their calendar (with the exception of the variation in time frame, which is minor considering these cycles were calculated from earth-based observations).

I find it interesting that two completely separate cultures about as far from each other on the planet (India and Mexico) as possible would have such similar beliefs, with such similar dates. Thank you for the links; I have some studying to do.

TheRedneck

Our galaxy is a disc?

I thought it was a bar spiral.

I mean sure, a spinning object can look like a disc, but that does not make it a disc.

It's kind of like saying a pyramid is a triangle or something isn't it?

Would this not change the maths and such involved? Are your theories based on an actual disc, a solid 'frisbee'. or a bar spinning on a central point with trailing 'arms' that have gaps between them?

Sorry you may of covered that. But by the 2nd or 3rd time I saw mention of your plans to publish a book I kind of switched off.

a reply to: Indrasweb


My mother worked as the head of nursing on the notorious 10th floor of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto, and indicated that it was THREE DAYS after the full moon that people started pouring in at a higher rate.

They ASSUMED that it was because by the third day that friends and family just couldn't take it any more, but this delayed effect hypothesis could account for it.

She said that everyone agreed there was something to it, but it was 3 days after the full moon.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Great post, i wonder what the mayans really new, i think they were very advanced and highly intelligent. I read a book once the name escapes me ATM but the author said that the biblical events in the bible of the days of Noah had some correlation with the Mayans and Egyptians being that flood was created by God to flood out the the fallen ones the Nephilims from polluting the DNA of humans genetic engineering/mating and start fresh again. Of course Noah was spared because as God said he was perfect in his generations meaning his lineage/dna wasn't polluted! Now the bible states after the flood there was Nephilims in those days and the days after meaning some survived the flood and started the Mayan and Egyptian dynasty's!

a reply to: schuyler

Sorry for the delayed response, didn't see this.

Haven't got time (or inclination) to dig out all the relevant info but this from Wikipedia (I know):

"A considerable number of studies have examined the effect on humans. By the late 1980s, there were at least 40 published studies on the purported lunar-lunacy connection,[1] and at least 20 published studies on the purported lunar-birthrate connection.[2] This has allowed several extensive literature reviews and meta-analyses to be produced, which have found no correlation between the lunar cycle and human biology or behavior.[1][2][3][4]"


It's easy enough to find the info if you're genuinely interested