School responds to peaceful protest students with a good old fashioned swatting to their thighs ?

a reply to: Gothmog

You are not reading my posts properly. I am not arguing that the kids shouldn’t have been punished. If they didn’t follow the rules, then they should have been punished. I am arguing that physical violence against them was not the proper punishment. Forcing them to stay after school and write an essay on the benefits and limitations of the 1st amendment would have been a proper punishment. Forcing them to do so many hours of community service to help the needy would have been a proper punishment. Hell, even making them stand in the middle of the gym and chastising them in front of their peers for how they broke the rules would have been an okay punishment. Hitting them was not a proper punishment.

They were protesting physical violence in their schools and what did they get as a punishment? Physical punishment. That is teaching them that when someone breaks one of your rules, you get physical. How is that a good thing?

Why thighs?

Not buttocks or soles of the feet?

Back of the neck or arm pits? Genitals?

Sounds pretty sexual to me.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Your determination of parenting skills is subjective.

Your claim that corporal punishment has no validity in schools is subjective.

We also have a stupid cultural idea that coddling and lacking any true punishment in many instances is the best way of teaching kids a lesson--how's that working out for us?

I'm not saying this it's appropriate for all students, but the reality is that parents have the choice if it's appropriate for thiers--if you're unwilling to respect that choice, I mean, that's up to you, but it's not going to change anything. Hell, even the student's chose the punishment.

Again, you dont' have to like it, but there are plenty of failsafes involved in the administering of this corporal punishment that you can't make the comparisons that you do, you can only make subjective, opinionated determinations. That's fine and all, but in the end, we're only expressing opinions, and since neither of us lives in Alabama (I assume), our opinion means very little to this school district or state legislators.

Best regards.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I always found it funny that people still think giving a kid a good whack on the ass/thigh is going to teach them something productive.

It doesn't. All it teaches them is that there is an easy way out (taking a swat to the ass is easy punishment) and the people dealing-out the punishment lack the intelligence to deal with the problems in more constructive ways.

In fact, I believe there was a study put together that shows a connection between physical violence in the home and the child's probability of committing crimes when an adult.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Of course we are just voicing our opinions here - I thought that was obvious.

I will say though, that if I could vote on it in my state, I would surely vote against corporal punishment being legal in schools. Unlike this site, my vote is where my voice counts.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: kaylaluv


It doesn't. All it teaches them is that there is an easy way out (taking a swat to the ass is easy punishment) and the people dealing-out the punishment lack the intelligence to deal with the problems in more constructive ways.

Exactly! There are so many more constructive ways to teach a lesson than to hit. And hitting just doesn’t reflect (legal) real-world consequences.

Forty years ago, in Arkansas schools, I'd been suspended and forced to sit outside under the flagpole, suspended from classes and forced to sit in hallways for weeks on end, forced into hard manual labor during summer break, slapped, had my hands beaten with a ruler, switched/swatted/spanked, made to spend hours on knees on graveled-asphalt surfaces - and that was all before high school.

Of course, it was a parochial (Catholic) school, my family was paying for the privilege of my education, and the rigorous discipline was felt necessary to control me. At home, due to my somewhat imposing physical stature, there wasn't much corporal punishment (might get slapped for something I said) - mostly verbal abuse, isolation and manual labor at home.

In the grand scheme of things, these experiences were inconsequential. Like many experiences, their effect on my development was positive rather than negative, built character and self esteem rather than destroy it and furthered my education beyond the mere attempts of "educators" to impose discipline. Suffice to say that lessons learned are not the same as what is intended to be taught.

ganjoa

a reply to: kaylaluv

Forcing them to do so many hours of community service to help the needy would have been a proper punishment. Hell, even making them stand in the middle of the gym and chastising them in front of their peers for how they broke the rules would have been an okay punishment.

So forced labour is ok and public humiliation is ok, but you draw the line at the student picking their own punishment?

Ok, "real world" example here...
You get pulled over for speeding, the cop says you get a choice : A rap on the knuckles with his baton or get a ticket and pay a fine. You choose the baton and then go crying "That bad policemen hit me!!"
Make sense?

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: kaylaluv

Forcing them to do so many hours of community service to help the needy would have been a proper punishment. Hell, even making them stand in the middle of the gym and chastising them in front of their peers for how they broke the rules would have been an okay punishment.

Ok, "real world" example here...
You get pulled over for speeding, the cop says you get a choice : A rap on the knuckles with his baton or get a ticket and pay a fine. You choose the baton and then go crying "That bad policemen hit me!!"
Make sense?

But that isn’t a real world example, unless you are claiming that a cop gave you the choice of being hit or getting a ticket?? I never got a choice - the penalty was a ticket - period.

originally posted by: cosmickat
It is an antiquated and barbaric and ineffectual method of " parenting " Says a lot more about the parent than it does about some misbehaviour by a child.

Hardly barbaric when you take a look at what you could prevent them going through as an adult if you administered proper discipline. A spanking pales in comparison. If you misbehave as an adult you get beaten, maced, tazed and sent to the rape house.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That's kinda the point...These kids were given a choice and They And Their Parents chose the swats. They wanted to martyr themselves and just come off looking like hypocrites and whiners.

a reply to: DAVID64

And my points are:

1. Real world doesn’t give you choices. The punishment is what the punishment is.

2. Physical punishment is not acceptable for breaking a rule in the real world.

a reply to: cosmickat

Funny when parents still let schools punish students with "good old fashioned swatting to their thighs" shootings like Stoneman-Douglas didn't happen.

Really makes you think.

When I was in school I asked for swats over detention.

I break paddles w these buns of steel.

Granted once they saw no affect.

Monday d hall....
Saturday School

haha what a waste of everyone's time.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: DAVID64

And my points are:

1. Real world doesn’t give you choices. The punishment is what the punishment is.

2. Physical punishment is not acceptable for breaking a rule in the real world.

How do you punish in the real world? Through economic punishment, right?

How do you correlate that to children? None of it is theirs, none of it is earned with hours of labor. The effect isn't there.

I think the real answer is, "Not all kids are the same."

My oldest was never spanked. My youngest needed a spanking to reset his attention and attitude. Rational discussion was always primary, and was our only disciplinary tool once he was 12 or so and had some rational mind to use in a discussion. But how much rational thought is an angry 7 year old throwing a fit going to have?

originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement

originally posted by: cosmickat
It is an antiquated and barbaric and ineffectual method of " parenting " Says a lot more about the parent than it does about some misbehaviour by a child.

Hardly barbaric when you take a look at what you could prevent them going through as an adult if you administered proper discipline. A spanking pales in comparison. If you misbehave as an adult you get beaten, maced, tazed and sent to the rape house.

Talking about kids misbehaving..not getting a permission slip..or running late to hand in assignments....then you take this huge leap into an Eli Roth movie !


I can only talk about my own experience.
Never been maced or tazed or sent to a rape house. Given a choice of any of the above I would elect spanking. ( trying not to roll my eyes ) Also ...how many of these inmates got the crap beaten out of them as a kid ? Would be interesting to see how many violent inmates had been administered " proper discipline " as they were growing up. Didn't really help them get straight hmmm

The topic is kids...that don't actually have a choice. And as i have said repeatedly within this post. Beating kids teaches them nothing except ....I am bigger than you..I have authority over you ..and I will inflict pain on you ..to make you tow the line. But I love you ..and it's for your own good.

So ....if I understand your viewpoint correctly your saying if they don't take a beating now while they are young from someone who loves them...for misbehaving ....then they will need to take it when they are older from someone else in authority who really doesn't care for them at all.

Do children really need to experience physical pain and emotional distress at the hands of their parents before they can understand right from wrong ?

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

So funny. .giggling here.
" i would dream of living in a corridor "

originally posted by: cosmickat
So ....if I understand your viewpoint correctly your saying if they don't take a beating now while they are young from someone who loves them...for misbehaving ....then they will need to take it when they are older from someone else in authority who really doesn't care for them at all.

No, I'm afraid you don't understand my viewpoint correctly. You are repeatedly talking about giving children a beating in your post. I would not, nor would any reasonable person, advocate beating a child. Spanking a child and giving a child a beating are two different things.

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

From a child's pov...possibly not that much different