The Problem with Disclosure; why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is going on

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Archivalist

Think we have already announced our presence via the TV and other radio broadcasts into our local space-time not to mention our location and biological characteristics via that gold record on the Voyager probe.

If aliens exist they have probably always been here.

Maybe....

With nearly 100 replies now we’ve seen some insightful ideas. Some of you seem to feel you know the answer, 100%, and have imparted that knowledge. I certainly do not know myself, and I would suggest you probably don’t either. When you start speaking in absolutes it’s easy to go astray and stop considering options and alternatives. Over the years I have become infatuated with one idea or another, and each time I have been jerked back to reality when one person or another has been proven a fraud, or sometimes, simply incorrect. Because I have been burned I am reluctant to accept one answer as the completely correct one. I really want to avoid picking on one issue here and starting an argument with anyone, but a short review might be in order, including my own presumptions.

My first presumption is that there is something to disclose, by governments or groups within them holding the secrets. That does not preclude individual knowledge or experiences. If you believe you have sufficient knowledge that you think Disclosure is not necessary, well, it’s not really you and your knowledge we’re talking about. It’s about those other guys and what they know and the knowledge they have amassed over the years. That you have disclosed what you know is great, but I am examining why those other guys have not and what their reasoning could be. Further, several people have suggested there is nothing to disclose at all and that the reason we don’t have it is because it’s not there to disclose. That is certainly a logical possibility (which I mentioned early on,) and if that’s true there is nothing further to discuss. It’s just that I don’t agree. I think there is. You cannot prove there is nothing to disclose, and I can’t prove there is, but my working hypothesis is that there is. That’s why we are here.

The ET hypothesis is, I believe, fairly straightforward. Advanced species have conquered the speed of light problem and made it here and we have seen some of their craft as a result. I believe this is an easy idea to accept. It fits with our culture. It makes sense. The scientific community could easily accept it, and lately religious leaders have also said there’s nothing inherently unbelievable about it. They seem willing to incorporate such a possibility into whatever theological construct they’ve got going for themselves. The more we learn about the Cosmos the more apparent it is that there is life out there. The Bottom Line on the ETH is that it is not in and of itself enough to freak us out. We can handle it as a culture and there is no really good reason to prevent Disclosure.

One of the things Jacque Vallee has said is that this phenomenon, whatever it is, wants us to think they are ETs from space. There are many who contend, for example, that the “Grays are from Zeta Reticuli.” This shows up from Betty and Barney Hill to Billy Meier to Bob Lazar. Let us leave the question of their veracity for later. The point is that it is in the popular culture from more than one source. It is at least part of the mythology. Unfortunately for the myth, there are no planets around either star in this binary system. At least we have not found any, and we know how to do it.

The IDH is a slightly different animal. In one sense it’s just an excuse to cover the faster-than-light issue. It circumvents it with a semantic trick because no one can articulate just what another dimension actually is or how it can exist. It’s beyond our scientific understanding, but the idea itself is not completely foreign. Proponents use it to explain the sheer number of sightings, but no one has been able to clearly articulate the idea beyond science fiction and fantasy. But if a Carl Sagan type figure such as Michio Kaku were to give a speech explaining that ET was inter-dimensional I really don’t think the populace would be particularly perturbed. Science might question the idea, but if the Grays were on stage with Kaku they would just have to deal with it. It’s not such an issue with the non-scientific populace. Once again, it’s not enough to cause mass panic. It’s not a justification for preventing Disclosure.

Another issue that has come up is that Disclosure would de-legitimize government. Some people have claimed that if a “greater power” were disclosed, the government could no longer prevent them from doing what they want. I question the premise. I don’t see how the presence of ET would do any such thing. You still have to make a living. We still need to grow and distribute food. Murder would still be illegal. This idea that if ET shows up you suddenly could do anything you want is really absurd. ET does not appear to be interested in over throwing the governments of the world. The two issues are barely connected. If you think all governments would suddenly be irrelevant if ET showed up I think you would be sadly mistaken. Don’t plan on it.

Of course the most common issue here is that Disclosure won’t happen because of greed and power. The Bad Guys™ want to hang onto power and somehow Disclosure would circumvent that. Lies would be exposed and like the Trump White House, heads would roll down the aisles. I do not believe that either. First of all, the guys in elected power aren’t part of this. By and large they don’t even know about it. So what power are we talking about here? Your local representative would find some way to capitalize on it, probably by blaming the other party. Maybe some department heads would be forced to resign, you know, for taking an ET craft instead of flying coach. But government would not be destroyed because of the mere presence of ET.

The ‘greed’ thing is even further afield. It goes something like this: Big Oil likes its profits and if ET came down and gave us free energy all that would go away, therefore they will prevent Disclosure. All I can say about that is, say what? That’s a lot of presumption. Even if ET came down with the blueprints for Zero Point Energy, who do you think would manufacture the machines to make it work? Big Oil is not in the oil business; it’s in the energy business. And distribution to 7 billion people would take awhile. The whole idea rests on something you could not possibly know. The mere presence of ET is not going to make your automobiles obsolete over night. You still have to get to work. So this idea of “greed” being the motivating factor is simplistic and naïve at best. It’s not well thought out.

So what actually would freak you out? I mean you, personally, not some abstract government you already hate on principle, not some Big Bad Corporation you blame for all your ills, not somebody else. You. What kind of revelation thrown in your face would make you question every principle by which you live? Consider: What if ET controlled your soul?

If you are of a secular scientific bent you think such a notion is silly and beyond contempt because you KNOW such religious mumbo jumbo is only believed by weak minds, those ‘hard of thinking’ who need a simplistic religious mythology to believe in. You’re so God-awful smart that you don’t need such a thing because, after all, it isn’t proven. I get it. I was there for a good long while. Science has no need for such mythology. But here comes ET and suggests religions at least have a vague hint of Reality, but you do not. In fact, you’re not very bright. Your soul has had many incarnations. Earth is but a school, and frankly, your personality and ego are disposable. That’s not the point of your existence. Everything you have ever believed about Truth is utterly and completely wrong. ALL of it.

And for you religious people, we are the demons of your dreams. Jesus is your own fiction and those 72 virgins you think you’ll get are all pigs. The only so-called religions that have even a small clue are Hindus and Buddhists and all those Hindu gods are some much B.S. as well, though you guys did get the reincarnation thing down. We control your souls. And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. And by the way, we’ve been here longer than you have. For all intents and purposes, we own you, and we can tag you like cattle.

Yeah, that kind of Disclosure might very well ruin your day, personally, and that Rand Corporation study that suggested Disclosure was a Very Bad Idea is probably a bit more understandable. Now, am I claiming this scenario is correct in all its particulars? Not at all, but SOMETHING equivalent to it is. Someone is genuinely frightened, and it’s not because ET has a bigger baseball bat than we do. It’s something very fundamental about the structure of reality that has them rattled..

I saw an interview with Bob Lazar recently—the old Bob Lazar, not the young Bob Lazar. And before we start, I now all about Bob Lazar and have criticized him relentlessly over the years, so no lectures on Bob Lazar, please. I’ve been into his story in depth and it doesn’t matter. He’s had a change of heart. First, he wished he hadn’t said anything. Second he wishes he were still involved with this technology. Third, he now understands why they are keeping it under wraps “because most people are morons.” But beyond that (and George Knapp agrees with this) Lazar was set up. And that’s what I’d like to talk about next.

a reply to: andy06shake

Forest trees mate.

Disclosure is a bad bet, no matter what. BECAUSE of your point.

We have military unknown, unknowns.

On the off chance they are here and have already infiltrated humanity, we can't tip our hand.

Keep the bluff up, until we figure out how to fight.

Without a full knowledge set of everything, it is dangerous to touch the pot. We don't see a stove, but that doesn't mean it isn't hot.

There are many reasons to avoid a mass disclosure and some of them are among ourselves anyway.

(US: They are real, we've been studying their technology. PS we kept quiet about it, so we can explore for the tech undisturbed, being the only country to put a human on another space rock, we have exclusive access.

Russia: O rly? -proceeds to study it as well, starting conquests to obtain more ET tech, to make a weapon-)

Those scenarios don't even need aliens, to be bad.

I’m going with no disclosure from any government based on the following.

1. Besides people (mainly religious) freaking out and the remainder that will want to extract revenge on the world governments for the cover-up (lawsuits, witch hunts etc.)

2. Besides the collapse of all the words economies (based on fossil fuels if an alternative free energy source is available) over time.

3. I believe that there is currently no way to make safe a ‘free energy device’ totally safe in a ‘take home package’. If this free energy device could be altered into a weapon we as a species are not responsible enough to have that knowledge (and power) in the hands of people that still want to do harm to others.

So unfortunately no disclosure from any government (unless it’s a blunder)

originally posted by: Mickierocksman

1. Besides people (mainly religious) freaking out and the remainder that will want to extract revenge on the world governments for the cover-up (lawsuits, witch hunts etc.)

Religions will handle it better than secularists. It's right up their alley. The Vatican has already said they have no problem with it. So some people will have their panties in a twist and file lawsuits. Based on what? They have to show damage. Let 'em file. What, they want money as compensation because someone didn't tell national security secrets? Good luck with that! We are quite accustomed to lawsuits and witch hunts already.

2. Besides the collapse of all the words economies (based on fossil fuels if an alternative free energy source is available) over time.

That's a big IF with a huge assumption that "free energy" is even possible. Chances are Elon Musk will have us converted to solar and electricity long before ET can provide plans for a "free energy" device. "ET" and "free energy" are not the same thing. One does not follow from the other. I don't see the collapse of world economies based on this possibility.

3. I believe that there is currently no way to make safe a ‘free energy device’ totally safe in a ‘take home package’. If this free energy device could be altered into a weapon we as a species are not responsible enough to have that knowledge (and power) in the hands of people that still want to do harm to others.

In which case, if it can't be done, no problem. The fact you don't believe it can be done is not exactly definitive. No economic collapse. Besides, 'free energy' doesn't mean a weapon. It means cheap electricity. You know, power so cheap you won't have to meter it. Where have we heard that before?

Neither free energy nor the presence of ET is enough to cause chaos. In fact, free energy is not really part of this equation. It's more part of the Cargo Cult surrounding it. It's an added assumption. All you've got here is the presence of ET. It's not a big deal. What has these folks freaked out has to be something far larger than just ET. It has to be something that questions our very existence, our very idea of what capital-R Reality even is. ET alone doesn't cut it. ET himself is expected. In fact, why isn't he here already? He's late to the party.

Was this RAND corporation study on the effects of disclosure ever made public?

I'd like to see what they are basing their assumptions on.

If it contained a list of potential scenarios (violent aliens / friendly aliens etc) it would be really interesting to follow their line of thinking.

And who asked or suggested RAND do this study?

That would also be interesting to know.

a reply to: andy06shake

Essentially do as i say or i will punish you in the name of God.

If you've run into this, you've been with poor Christian Leaders. God offers many opportunities to redeem yourself under his spiritual guidance. Just because there are 10 commandments which guide our lives doesn't mean God gives up on you when you sin. I'm sorry you had poor Christian leadership.

dbl post

a reply to: schuyler

here is what we would like to happen
1 gov admits aliens are real and are friendly
2 gov admits ufosare really them testing new aircraft that is so advanced it makes f-16 look like a biplane.

here is what would likely happen if gov admits aliens are here
1 citizens would be scared to point of hysteria
2 religions when facing aliens would collapse as their beliefs are disproven

a reply to: proteus33

The reality is there are forces from alternate dimensions manipulating us. Imagine if this was related to the world, the chaos it would bring, especially knowing govts. are powerless.

a reply to: schuyler

In all honesty, I believe the reason why we're not being told is because the government itself is afraid. What good is it to tell a populace that, "Something is visiting us, kidnapping some of us, but there's nothing we can do about it"?

But thank you for your post, extremely interesting to read.

a reply to: schuyler
Now that is a lot of writing. But I would not wait on disclosure, first governments know little to nothing, for the most part it is filled with people, so what would you respect them to do or know that you yourself or countless other do or know? Government is a machine and not a very well oiled one, in fact for all intensive purposes all government is but a coalition of business interests all vying for there time in the sun and there piece and parcel.

I mean you all cant even decide on simple things and have been arguing for ages on the same ol issues non stop. What makes anybody think governments would have the answer is beyond me. As for the shadow government? There likely just going along with things.

Also aliens just don't care, there is little to nothing interesting in the human animal, its all just conceit to think that your the center of the universe, countless other civilizations and creatures have come and have had there time and most for much longer then we humans have been around some millions of years and some in the billions. And all of them are have gone and left nothing but star dust.

Does that not tell you something about your place in the universe? Maybe we should get back to it in a few million years and see just were we stand. All of this has come, and gone, before, many times before. For any of us know, there really may be nothing new under the sun. So not even a trip to say hi to your neighborhood is worth the effort even though it would be little to no effort.

And also.

Besides, what is the big deal? We are (almost) a space faring culture. We’ve been thinking about this since the fifties. We’ve been to the Moon—fifty years ago. Our grandparents are the ones who went there. We’re about to go to Mars. We have a permanent presence on both with satellites circling them and robots on the ground. We’ve sent probes to every planet, many moons, comets, and asteroids, and even past the confines of our solar system. We’ve already detected thousands of planets around other stars, some of them in what we call habitable zones. We could live on some of them. In fact, that’s the point of looking for them. We’re not doing this just for fun. How are we going to get there? Well, we’ll figure that out later. But the idea that there is NOT life out there in the Universe is preposterous. Only a few nutcases believe otherwise. Of course there is, all the flat-earthers notwithstanding. Even the Vatican admits this, so the religions are on board with the idea. Surely every cultured, educated person knows this. Who cares what some backwoods tribe in the Amazon (or the hills of Kentucky) thinks about this? They don’t count. What’s the big deal?

Lets just say that maybe in 100 years or maybe even 50 years, we may have the technology to send a men or even woman to the moon, and lets just forget about Mars for a few thousand years, right now my cellphone has a few hundred thousands of times the processing power of the computers that they used to send the first maned mission to the moon. But sorry to say, that is just not enough, and wont cut mustard as of yet to send people to the moon much less mars. I have heard of a new company Space X or so who is sending probes in near orbit, and they seem to think they will get to the moon in a few years and maybe even Mars, because you know the power of capitalism, will drive this enterprise forward. Funny I know, even there space car mascot.

Even Neil deGrasse Tyson seems to be not entirely convinced on the private enterprise leading the way to space and the whole space x model. Lets just say you all may be sending satellites into near orbit same as they did in the 40's for the next few hundred years. Very few humans are actual explorers by nature, as in maybe a few have been born in the last few thousand years, so what is that? One out of a few hundred billion? Those are not good odds. Even the might dollar wont help you much in some things.

We shall see right. That is if our world is actually round and all the things you all think you know are actually true. Would it not be funny if all the things you thought you knew turned out to be total and complete bunk? And the flat earthers were more then a bit right, What then? For all you know aliens could have created this whole thing even your whole educations system just to # with ya? And because they can. So why not?

So ya we may have to write Mars projects as a far reaching goal, not anything soon. Because its likely the only people that would step foot there if there allowed that is, is the only people who steeped foot in the new lands after Columbus, that is, convicts and the undesirables, because you know in some cases it will be a death sentence. About as fun as mining coal in 150 degree heat wearing a respirator that may fail in second now, a few miles underground. In fact what I said above may be a lot easier then trying to send spam in a can to Mars or any other planet.

So no humans are far from breaching and on the edge to becoming a space faring species. And as for disclosure? That to is silly. Lets just say 6 of the Annunaki, which were present, because the other 6 were who the hell knows were most likely not even in this universe, but the space pope, a reptilian queen, the grays, the interdimensional unicorn of doom from the triangle planets universe, and some few other gods and other such entities were there and present. Well they all got down to decide this whole fad that is going on here on planet earth, and decide what to do, and all other have weighed in on this whole thing. It took them all of a millisecond as well, which is much longer then usual when deciding the fate of entire species. It is unusual to say the least.

But!

The verdict was unanimous...And the verdict is....Access denied.

I think its save to say that the only thing that exists in this universe stretching on for farther and longer then any of us can even imagine is just us, humans, and a bunch of rocks floating around here in there, yup we are the pinnacle and likely the last thing that will exist in all of creation.

a reply to: schuyler


Disclosure has been going on for years even, decades.

Dunno why people cant see this. What do they think all the UFO and alien movies have been for, nothing but entertainment alone?

UFO alien movies and have served the purpose of getting people to entertain the ideathat perhaps we are not alone in the universe? Getting the masses to this point is a major step forward.

Why cant people see this is incomprehensible to my way of thinking.

a reply to: schuyler


Disclosure cannot happen. Humankind is not ready for it. When I say "Humankind" I do not mean some of you who frequent ATS. In order for Disclosure to happen humankind at large would need to transform itself away from religious systems and cultural bias based on tribe/religion. In addition mankinds violent tribal ways would also need to completely go.

This is a monumental ask. Disclosure requires Human society to alter almost overnight causing all current societal systems in place to be rendered obsolete. Many will say that the earth is ready for disclosure. It is not. The true reality of conscious existence is far beyond most humans. Human society has a very long way to go before disclosure can be allowed to happen.

It will not happen anytime soon and the jury is out on whether it will ever come to pass. Everything is balanced on what happens on earth over the next 50 years. The time for a new beginning can only happen after the end of everything that has held humankind back since the old beginning.

Read ATS in 25 years time and there will still not have been any such disclosure, just much more conjecture, conspiracy theory, and argument.

Good luck.

a reply to: schuyler

we have a soul and the body is just an interchangeable vessel you can step into or out of at any time. Reincarnation is a fact and you all do it. You just don’t remember it and that’s on purpose. And by the way, we’ve been running things in this realm for a good long while so you’re not in charge,”

Ding, ding, ding...!!! We have a winner...

The text quoted above is, I believe, absolutely the reason why we do not have any chance of Disclosure any time soon. This 'Reality Construct' we are familiar with; that which is our sense of 'home' - it is, as you correctly observe, totally shattered by the fact that the 'land of forgetfulness' is real, and it is Earth. The bold text in particular sums it up. We are controlled, by a nefarious alien 'race' (more like a 'force' than a race, as they don't enjoy the sense of family & community as we ourselves are wont to do. Perhaps in part, their intent to control us, to 'farm us', springs from that very fact - they are jealous, and want to see what they can take from us, in the longer term.

Secretary of State James Forrestal broke down on hearing the truth of the alien presence, shortly before being admitted to a Navy psychiatric facility soon after the conclusion of WW2. He was then eliminated because he threatened to blow the lid off it. I assume he was eliminated for that reason due to the fear of those who were truly in the know, the fear that if he were to blow the lid off it, that there would be a punitive & terrible reckoning foisted upon us by the aliens.

What more can we say? Only that perhaps, the TV show 'Stranger Things' touches upon this 'aliens from another aspect of our own reality' issue. Even throwing a fiery Hell in there at the end of series 2. Perhaps we are all subconsciously aware of these 'dark elves', because they have been abusing Humanity for aeons - and we instinctively shy away from any discussion of 'aliens' or 'disclosure' because on a certain level, we all know very well where that discussion leads. To a dark, gloomy, lifeless, evil place. A realm of hungry ghosts & sadistic, machine-like demons. Which in recent years may have co-opted aspects of the human military leadership into subservience, blackmailing them into servitude, seemingly holding all the cards & giving us humans very, very little chance of dealing with the threat in any realistically optimistic manner.

A very deep & obscure, macabre conspiracy, which frightens off the best of them, and offers to purchase souls in return for willing assault against the remainder of the human race. And we all go through the life-death-rebirth process, ending up with a bitter amnesia each time - and perhaps, Jesus' claim that He can free us from this hellish carnival, from the power of the Evil One (perhaps referencing the hive mind collective unity of the Archontic enemy) is no minor maybe.. It is claimed that He has power over death - power which formerly was held in the hand of the Evil One. He is able to take us out of the demonic merry-go-round aspect of our illusory reality, to the real Elysian Fields, far away from the influence of the Dark Elves & their mysterious Dark Santa. Or is that Satan? Perhaps these verbal correlatives are no accident after all...

I would HIGHLY recommend the following book:

Grey Aliens & the Harvesting of Souls

This guy gets closer than most to the 'rationale', however insidious, of the alien motives in tampering with our DNA. And there's a rather wonderful exposition of the research which has proven the Shroud of Turin to be a genuine holy relic, the actual shroud which covered Jesus' torso when he died, which appears to have been miraculously imprinted with his legitimate image & form when the resurrection miracle occurred. The book is weird, and the tale is twisted - but it's worth it, because it gets closer to the truth, to that 'rationale' behind that lurking, insidious alien presence, than any other that I've read. Give it a go - it's food for thought if nothing else.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I am beyond extremely doubtful that any outside species will care about our DNA at all. It is insignificant and does not inherently contain anything special that the DNA of other organisms does not.

In fact, there are organisms on Earth with far more interesting genetic code, than humans, if you mean that as in overall complexity.

eitherway, disclosure soon-ish probably is inevitable... I have a hunch.

a reply to: Archivalist

Disclosures a bad bet because the people/organizations responsible for the cover-up, if any, would be exposed and their agendas/applecarts upturned.

I'm more scared of other Humans than i im of any Aliens, that's a given really.

Like i said though it's not like we are trying to hide, quite the opposite in fact.

It's all real, I have had & continue to have a WORKING relationship with all these AGENCIES. To keep things simple its like ALL we are shown in "movies" is REALITY. Throughout all my years I have grown past my fears of those so called unknowns openly invited them to my space. Its a ultimate feeling of knowing & as the saying goes "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER"
a reply to: schuyler

a reply to: nwtrucker You clearly haven’t experienced something. I know this bc if you had, you would understand his post. He’s right about questioning gov’s role in our lives and questioning their authority. That and about a thousand existential questions that will scream through your brain while you try to make sense of what you are seeing. I don’t mean, seeing something high in the sky and wondering. I mean, seeing it right in front of you in the middle of the day. The damn thing popped out of a low lying storm front. I was on a big hill and the front was sweeping through the valley below. The irony is that for so long, I was a skeptic. When it happened, I didn’t think to grab a camera, I couldn’t breathe and I couldn’t move. I was so scared, I couldn’t call for help and my legs wouldn’t move. It felt like I was super glued to my front lawn. And then came the questions. For a couple of months, I tried to wrap my head around it. I started questioning my sanity, religion and...LIFE. Really. The conclusion I came to was be careful what you wish for. You might actually get it. The question isn’t, are they here? It’s, WHY are they here?
Disclosure would be dangerous. I’m a thoughtful, intelligent individual and if I couldn’t deal, I can’t imagine what the Kardashian watching robot masses would do. It would be chaos.