Two SWAT officers responded to the Parkland rampage uninvited and they’ve been punished

originally posted by: ZombieZygote
"Tinfoil narratives"? Say it isn't so! Not on America's largest conspiracy forum!!! How dare they!

IMO, ATS used to be better when the motto was "Deny Ignorance" not "Lets be the somewhat better version of BIN or GLP"

originally posted by: starviego
Of course they were punished. Their bungling could have ruined the whole psy op.

Ok I'm a little confused here. Nothing that I've seen here or in the press release says anything about what the 2 officers did at the scene. Did they show up and do something that was in conflict with those in command? Or were they being punished just for being there? If it's was just for being there then it sounds to me like the commander on scene was concerned about who would get the credit for getting it under control.

He put his own SWAT team on standby, why? Could it be because if they were brought in he would have to surrender command to them? If the press sees the SWAT team show up they take their questions to that command officer. If these 2 officers came in and asked how can we help then the guy would be a fool to not take advantage of their training. That's why I think he was more concerned about who gets the credit, and who gets more air time.

By punishing the 2 guys instead of using them the press take a different stance on the subject. On the other hand if he uses them he looses top billing. He could also end up defending himself if reporters start asking questions like "Why did you need to bring in outside help?" To many officers on scene are you kidding me? 17 kids were shot hundreds more scared to death they might be next. When you're up against an unknown number of shooters a large show of force is the only way to approach it. Ask any military commander and they will tell you that you never want to match them gun for gun. You want a large enough force to make them give up without the need to fire a single shot. In this case the kids will leave the building and run to the nearest uniform. 500 kids and 10 cops is a very bad idea. The person that should be hung is the one more concerned about their carrier then the safety of those kids.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: vinifalou

I can see the BCSO's point of view on this--in the military, you can't/shouldn't just run to jump into a possible firefight with another unit that doesn't know that you're coming and can't account for who you are or where you're supposed to be. The same makes sense in a situation like this from a command standpoint.

That said, I disagree with a punishment in this particular situation, where we had the BCSO failing to provide appropriate response to the situation, and the outcome was amazingly sad and disappointing, bordering, IMO, on criminal. If we had people willing to run toward the gunfire a not hide behind cars and concrete pillars, give them a goddam pay raise!

I would need to know more about the specifics as to how they found out about it and who they may have coordinated with before arriving on scene.

In the military the guy on the ground being shot at doesn't care who you are they're happy to have help of any kind regardless of what unit they're attached to. You're not going to see a guy behind a gun tell the guy next to him to go away because he's from the motor pool.

a reply to: vinifalou

How convenient there were these two heroes "training" near the area. I wonder why they didn't stopped the rampage...

Trying to find more information about what kind of training they were doing. As if the disaster drill in the school the very same day wasn't weird enough.

Special Weapons And Tactics teams practice long and hard, mostly at the range. If you want to be proficient at close quarters drill, you better be able to shoot, practice, practice, practice.

I'm gad they were suspended, they should be.

Imagine if they went in on their own, now you got the assailant and two other guys all 'geared up' inside sneaking around corners. Recipe for disaster.

All least if they showed up they were smart enough to not to go in.

a reply to: MikeA

You missed my point--it can create confusion and cause some problems, especially from a command standpoint. That is why I specifically noted that I can understand the point of view from the Sheriff.

Sure, the Soldiers on the ground will welcome the help IF they are readily able to understand that they are friendly and there to help, but the point is that the average Soldier is not authorized to decide which battles to participate in or not just because they here that one is happening on their radio.

The order generally comes from someone up in the chain of command, even if the average Soldier may not understand the reasoning behind it.

a reply to: vinifalou

How convenient there were these two heroes "training" near the area. I wonder why they didn't stopped the rampage...

There was a lot of mis-management of law enforcement surrounding this whole ordeal; lots of folks ordered to stand-down by their captain when they probably should have been entering the scene and securing it. Possibly some children may have died due to lack of medical attention in an unsecured battle-zone, as a result of officers not being inside sooner.

It is important to note though that these things usually go fast. This whole thing happened in 6 minutes. The only officer on scene who had the chance to respond that fast was the chap on duty at the school, but we know his story. It is likely most of the other officers arrived after the shooting was well over, and possibly after the shooter had already left. I think folks have a narrative in their head where officers could have stormed in and confronted the shooter; in this case at least, that doesn't seem to have been possible, it would have been over already. Someone already on the scene would have had to respond.

a reply to: opethPA

Yeah, I try not to.

Just saying, it seems a common element.

Similar to the off-duty camo officer in the woods that was quickly explained away. Seems to happen a lot.

a reply to: vinifalou

Following to come back to a little later....

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: vinifalou

How convenient there were these two heroes "training" near the area. I wonder why they didn't stopped the rampage...

Trying to find more information about what kind of training they were doing. As if the disaster drill in the school the very same day wasn't weird enough.

Special Weapons And Tactics teams practice long and hard, mostly at the range. If you want to be proficient at close quarters drill, you better be able to shoot, practice, practice, practice.

I'm gad they were suspended, they should be.

Imagine if they went in on their own, now you got the assailant and two other guys all 'geared up' inside sneaking around corners. Recipe for disaster.

All least if they showed up they were smart enough to not to go in.

Yeah imagine if they had run in, imagine if a tornado had hit or a thunderstorm, or any one of a million things that MIGHT have happened. These are highly trained officers, and as such are the least likely to just run into something uninformed. Meaning they are NOT going in all geared up sneaking around corners. They do all that training to be able to maintain control of themselves under stressful conditions. In short they don't freak out. It's foolish to think "what if" the only thing that matters is "what DID".

SlapMonkey
I don't think I missed your point but I'm sure you missed mine. Giving what he was facing the Sheriff SHOULD HAVE call in for help. If an officer pulls a car over and it takes off they call in every available car in the area. It doesn't matter what station they work for. So if they do it for a speeder why did he not do it for kids being shot at?

a reply to: MikeA

They do all that training to be able to maintain control of themselves under stressful conditions. In short they don't freak out.

One can only wonder why it is they jumped in their vehicles and took off without telling anybody where they were going then, eh?

Giving what he was facing the Sheriff SHOULD HAVE call in for help.

Might wanna watch some video of the incident. We already know well over 100 officers from Coral Springs PD responded to the call, and they're not even the primary agency involved. Two more cops from a SWAT team that show up without the rest of their SWAT team probably aren't going to save the day. To try and claim there was some sort of lack of manpower on scene is kinda silly, to be honest. A lack of command presence, sure.

a reply to: MikeA

Yeah imagine if they had run in, imagine if a tornado had hit or a thunderstorm, or any one of a million things that MIGHT have happened. These are highly trained officers,

They are highly trained so knew better to wait.

If you knew anything about active shooter scenarios you wouldn't run in there either.