Inferior Steel Entering the U.S. Was Addressed Prior to Trump - But Without Success.

a reply to: c2oden

Try BlueScope Steel.

a reply to: Chadwickus There actually is very good China steel. It costs more and hard to find on large scale in western countries. And on the deal with American made war products America has been know to buy from an “enemy”. The SR-71 is a great example of this.

a reply to: carewemust
The chooks are coming home to roost for all the offshoring of jobs PCR talks about that occurred in the 1980' 90's whenever.

Remember that?

Remember how US businesses sounded the emergency evacuation siren and when everyone was out of the building they got security to lock the doors and then they told all their staff they were "as of now" unemployed. Their jobs had been sent to china.

From what I've read; the US is now in a position where they have now sunk below the critical mass of skills required to attempt to undo the mistakes caused by the short term thinking of the 1990's whenever it was.

According to some, this is all deliberate, to drive the US into the ground. All part of Agenda 21 or 30 whatever it is now.

Pull the wealthy countries down to the middle and lift the poor countries up to the middle. Agenda 21 for you.

cheers

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: strongfp

So everything is fine the way it is? That's cool. But at least the U.S. military and airline industry should take steps to ensure that only top-quality steel is used.

And they do. And I am sure a lot of it does come from US steel mills.
But for example, when it comes to making less than 1" thick I - beams there's a mill in Chicago that makes top quality steel. For anything over 1" it usually comes from Luxembourg or somewhere in Europe. Every mill is equipped and situated in a specific spot for a reason.

The reason Chinese steel is low quality is because there are so many random ones and they use techniques of making steel from when the Industrial revolution was kicking in, but there is good quality steel in China, it just never leaves the coutnry. You also have to remember that different parts of the world offer different raw materials for steel making. Hence why ArcelorlMittal has facilities all over the world.

originally posted by: carewemust
February 6, 2018

The inferior steel imports, and more broadly, unfair trade practices that hurt the United States, have acted upon by U.S. Presidents for at least 2 decades. Here's one of the most recent actions, related to the "inferior steel from China" problem.

In an attempt to prevent China from dumping cheap, inferior steel into U.S. manufacturing industries, President Obama imposed a 500% tariff/duty on Chinese "cold rolled" steel in May of 2016.

Source - dtd 5/18/2016: www.reuters.com...

China complained, then changed tactics for getting around the steep tariff. Instead of sending inferior steel DIRECTLY to the U.S., the country found other nations to act as "proxies", in order to get the steel into U.S. markets. That "shell game" continues to this day. The American Steel Industry has been asking the U.S. government to do something about this since September 2016.

Source - dtd 9/23/2016: www.americanmanufacturing.org...

So, if you want to "level the playing field", by keeping inferior steel out of America, the best way to go is a BLANKET tariff on ALL steel (and aluminum) imports into the country. This will make some countries mad, but more importantly, the United States steel, aluminum, and their supporting industries, will blossom and prosper.

Mega-Businessman/Presidential Candidate/President DONALD TRUMP, understands how to avoid the Huge Trade Blunders made by Obama, and Bush before him, better than anyone. Steel/Aluminum is just ONE area where the U.S. is being screwed. Show toughness with those products, and it will be easier to re-negotiate better trade deals across the board.

Taking ACTIONS to let the world know that the 20+ year run of "soft", relatively un-saavy U.S. Presidents is over, can't be overstated. Most of the so-called "experts" we see crawling out of the woodwork didn't know, or didn't care that there was a problem, before President Trump brought it to the forefront last week.

-CareWeMust

Hell yeah.

Make our own steel and aluminum! Period!

Screw the economics of the tariffs or who cries, it's a National Security matter.

Like having to buy jet fuel/oil/uranium from someone or hitching a ride to space with the big bad russians.

Or even silicon chips.

The previous idiots have been giving away the farm for decades.

MAGA!

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: BilboBaggins3
If the steel IS inferior, why isn't it simply rejected? (Not that I doubt that it is)

Because it's cheap.
My company buys US steel. But also buys steel from all over the world. Different facilities make different grades of steel. If Trump imposes these tariffs it will spell disaster for a lot of American steel and iron workers, some steel can only be manufactured in certain places around the worls, you can't just make a pop up steel mill out of the blue.

Ya right.

Wanna bet how long it would take? Remember WW2?

Where does Musk get his rockets? NOKO?

Where's John Henry when you need him?

a reply to: strongfp

When i was a kid i went to my buddies house one day and his dad was sitting on the couch crying. The US steel market fell apart and he lost the majority of his value in Shelby tanking.

Zero coupon bonds began to mature and seeded his more diversified recovery.

There could be a lot of money to be made here. I wonder what Trumps portfolio looks like?

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: Chadwickus There actually is very good China steel. It costs more and hard to find on large scale in western countries. And on the deal with American made war products America has been know to buy from an “enemy”. The SR-71 is a great example of this.

Titanium is not cheap to make.

The SR-71 was 60's tech and expensive.

We need Ultimainium!

www.nbcnews.com...

Wouldn't use pig iron for an airframe or aluminium for rebar.

Self sufficient.

Energy, metals, people.

Not enough babies to pay for the old peoples? STOP KILLING THEM!!

I'm just a cook but even I can make my own pasta better than buying what's on the shelf.

I just got inspired for my new kitchen. House and Garden level awesomeness.

Anyway... in case of war, I'd rather you have MY number than I need to be calling YOU!

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: strongfp

When i was a kid i went to my buddies house one day and his dad was sitting on the couch crying. The US steel market fell apart and he lost the majority of his value in Shelby tanking.

Zero coupon bonds began to mature and seeded his more diversified recovery.

There could be a lot of money to be made here. I wonder what Trumps portfolio looks like?

IT'S YUGE!

Don't forget, insider trading for the Govt peeps is ok.

Just sayin'

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: strongfp

So everything is fine the way it is? That's cool. But at least the U.S. military and airline industry should take steps to ensure that only top-quality steel is used.

And they do. And I am sure a lot of it does come from US steel mills.
But for example, when it comes to making less than 1" thick I - beams there's a mill in Chicago that makes top quality steel. For anything over 1" it usually comes from Luxembourg or somewhere in Europe. Every mill is equipped and situated in a specific spot for a reason.

The reason Chinese steel is low quality is because there are so many random ones and they use techniques of making steel from when the Industrial revolution was kicking in, but there is good quality steel in China, it just never leaves the coutnry. You also have to remember that different parts of the world offer different raw materials for steel making. Hence why ArcelorlMittal has facilities all over the world.

Just think, if it wasn't for some idiot, we'd all be making Damascus Steel.

Analyses of steel by Jeffrey Wadsworth and Oleg D. Sherby, in their search for a highly plastic form, revealed properties almost identical to those they then found in Damascus steel, though their own plastic steel had been produced through contemporary methods. The remarkable characteristics of Damascus steel became known to Europe when the Crusaders reached the Middle East, beginning in the 11th century. They discovered that swords of this metal could split a feather in midair, yet retain their edge through many a battle with the Saracens.

The swords were easily recognized by a characteristic watery or ''damask'' pattern on their blades. Through the ages - perhaps from the time of Alexander the Great in the fourth century B.C. -the armorers who made swords, shields and armor from such steel were rigidly secretive regarding their method. With the advent of firearms, the secret was lost and never fully rediscovered, despite the efforts of men like P.@P. Anossoff, the Russian metallurgist, who knew the steel as bulat.

www.nytimes.com...

OMG! a Russian is involved!!

The traitors have great stakes (stocks) at risk with this move by Trump. IMO, Trump knows that very well.


a reply to: RazorV66

It's funny, every nation thinks every other nations steel is inferior.

US steel had a terrible reputation in the UK, American cars have always been seen as hopeless rustbuckets that rot ridiculously quickly.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: carewemust

Mega-Businessman/Presidential Candidate/President DONALD TRUMP, understands how to avoid the Huge Trade Blunders made by Obama

Yeah, like pissing off close allies like Australia.

That makes perfect sense.

Our Aussie PM has already had talks with Shinzo Abe of Japan and the Canadian PM, and plans to talk to many more, about what we can place tariffs on in order to even the playing field. Methinks America and it's people who support these "trade wars" are about to be taught a VERY harsh lesson on why you shouldn't piss off your close allies.

originally posted by: c2oden

You are not manufacturing steel in Australia. You do nothing but assemble it.

You should probably do your research before making NONSENSE assumptions like this and then using that false assumption to support a policy that will end very badly for the U.S.

From: news.com.au...

EU set to publish retaliatory list of US products that could escalate trade war

PEANUT butter, cranberries, orange juice, bourbon, Levi jeans and Harley Davidson motorbikes are among US products that could subject to retaliatory tariffs from the European Union (EU) if President’s Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminium go ahead.

That’s according to EU trade commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom who said the organisation is developing a list of agricultural and industrial products to be published “very soon” raising fears of a full-blown trade war.

While Commissioner Malmstrom was quick to point out no action had been taken yet, she said the 28-member organisation is working on three potential courses of action amid the threat that “risks a serious blow to our European economy and workers”.

“If a move like this is taken, it will hurt the EU. It will put thousands of EU jobs in jeopardy and has to be met by a firm and proportionate response,” she said, adding that body plans to take the potential dispute to the World Trade Organisation for arbitration.

However mindful that legal recourse will take time, Ms Malmstrom said a provisional list including steel, peanut butter, cranberries, orange juice and bourbon whiskey is being drawn up among EU members.

“We are calculating the blow and we will take these rebalancing measures,” she said. “We can have it ready, we can notify but we can also choose to wait a bit to see how things develop ... We have looked at products with alternative supply so it wouldn’t hit EU consumers.”

“A trade war has no winners,” she said

The U.S. is opening up a huge can of worms, one that there will be no winners and ONLY losers in. You people are completely and utterly insane for wanting this and buying into the nonsense rhetoric that Trump is spewing out.

Metals are a strategic product that we need to keep in production here. If we don't we have lost the war before it starts.

a reply to: Kryties

Americans are a VERY proud people - any tariff war on US-made goods would cause American people to buy it at any price in quantities you can't even imagine. We'd be making hydroponic orange tree towers out of cans of cranberry sauce, surrounded by Harley race tracks with orange juice and peanut butter refreshment stands manned by workers in head to toe Levi literally the day after.

One way that this could work, a tariff on all steel and aluminum, is to place an inspector in various countries that seem to be "honest" with trade policies and have them monitor the production plants. The wages would be paid by the country where the items are manufactured but they could get some kind of discount on the tariff or some other arraingement, IDK exactly how it would work but I would think something like this could be worked out with friendly countries.

Another big problem with China using shell companies to sell goods, in this case, counterfeit honey (where they use Rice sugar which has very similar characteristics), is they use countries like Mylasia or phillipenes as middle men and sell it as export from there. I think one of these coutnries had a 50,000x increase in honey production one year or some absurd number like that, the year after chinese honey was banned form the US and EU.

I would have to wonder if a lot of the "crap" steel isn't being used in items that are supposed to have a "short" life expectancy and are not critical in a structural manner such as I beams and building steel. I would think that lesser quality steel could be used in the manufacture of things like washing machines, dryers, air conditioners, lawn mower decks and things that are only expected to last 5-15 years.

I would also think that any steel (and aluminum) being imported should, at minimum, be tested with XRF analyzers to verify what the contents of the material and if they don't pass various min/max guidelines (such as too much lead in either) they are rejected at port which is a great expense to the shipper and manufacturer. If there were stringent tests before the metals could enter the country then sending inferior products would be a unwise gamble as the metal that doesn't pass either needs to be returned to paid to have destroyed (or sent for re-manufacture with more pure product to "dilute" the impurities". All of this could be spelled out, the complete process, and should the exporter fail to test before they ship, then the loss falls upon them.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to have plants that buy imported "raw" steel/aluminum in their designated standards (like 6061 aluminum or AR500 or AR600 steel) in large billets 30-100 tons in size, and then final processing could take place in country to shape the steel/aluminum into the final working product. This type of industry would be much less energy & resource intensive as the metalurgy is no longer one of the main processes and the metal is then sent for rolling, extruding, etc. Once at the mill, it can be tested again upon arrival with XRF, so it will be tested a minimum of 2x before going into production.