Free Will or the Illusion of freedom.

So we find that nothing is the most permanent thing.. and that it's between everything.. and above and below, surrounding and within everything!

a reply to: Abednego

truth

when you control everybody you can see free will pretty clearly and its pretty much your sectioned off from being accountable for your actions which results in "of course" nothing.

Nothing is only an abstraction about the future..

We have freewill enough to determine the future in a positive way!

a reply to: Abednego

" Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose? "


Absolutely Not . A Determined Persons Will is the Greatest Force in this World . It could Create a Paradise on Earth , or Utterly Destroy it . The Will is an Expression of the Soul Unbound....

a reply to: Abednego

Constants & variables... so yes/no.

regards,

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Abednego

" Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose? "


Absolutely Not . A Determined Persons Will is the Greatest Force in this World . It could Create a Paradise on Earth , or Utterly Destroy it . The Will is an Expression of the Soul Unbound....

Don't get me wrong. I know it is a bit confusing. We are free to choose, we have the freedom to choose whatever we "want", but the choices are already determined.
At this moment we are limited by our material physical condition, but the soul can roam free, but still the choices are determined.
This is one of the mysteries to understand God's plan. We are free to choose but He already knows the outcome, because He made all the possible choices available.
In the end there are only 2 outcomes, you either did right or wrong. No matter how many choices you made of your free will, there is only 2 outcomes. God will be the one deciding which one suits you.

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Abednego

" Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose? "


Absolutely Not . A Determined Persons Will is the Greatest Force in this World . It could Create a Paradise on Earth , or Utterly Destroy it . The Will is an Expression of the Soul Unbound....

Don't get me wrong. I know it is a bit confusing. We are free to choose, we have the freedom to choose whatever we "want", but the choices are already determined.
At this moment we are limited by our material physical condition, but the soul can roam free, but still the choices are determined.
This is one of the mysteries to understand God's plan. We are free to choose but He already knows the outcome, because He made all the possible choices available.
In the end there are only 2 outcomes, you either did right or wrong. No matter how many choices you made of your free will, there is only 2 outcomes. God will be the one deciding which one suits you.

Who determines what is right or wrong? If I steal a loaf of bread to feed my children, is that wrong?

Who determines what is right or wrong? If I steal a loaf of bread to feed my children, is that wrong?

That is up to God. That is why He says not to judge.

originally posted by: Abednego

Who determines what is right or wrong? If I steal a loaf of bread to feed my children, is that wrong?

That is up to God. That is why He says not to judge.

Yet, if one is to believe that the law of God - "Thou shalt not steal" is wrong, then that is a judgment. For those that follow the word/law of God to the letter, how do they reconcile themselves to not judge?

originally posted by: InTheLight
Who determines what is right or wrong? If I steal a loaf of bread to feed my children, is that wrong?

Yep.
You're taking a loaf of bread from the children of the baker.

Rationalising wrong behavior doesn't make it right.
It just makes it easier to sleep at night.

originally posted by: Abednego
Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose?

Sam Harris has an interesting way to look at this...
Think of a city, any city.

You're not free to choose a city whose name you don't know.

Lots of dominoes had to fall a certain way over billions of years to get where we are today. I don't think you can just dismiss that momentum.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: InTheLight
Who determines what is right or wrong? If I steal a loaf of bread to feed my children, is that wrong?

Yep.
You're taking a loaf of bread from the children of the baker.

Rationalising wrong behavior doesn't make it right.
It just makes it easier to sleep at night.

Is it right for people to not help each other and share when they have plenty, while some have none?

a reply to: InTheLight

No, but you are making a lot of assumptions about the baker.
That loaf you stole to feed your starving kids.

Is it OK for me to steal that loaf from you to feed my starving kids?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't steal the bread.
Steal the bread, just don't pretend that your doing anything but putting your own needs above someone else's.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: InTheLight

No, but you are making a lot of assumptions about the baker.
That loaf you stole to feed your starving kids.

Is it OK for me to steal that loaf from you to feed my starving kids?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't steal the bread.
Steal the bread, just don't pretend that your doing anything but putting your own needs above someone else's.

If your children were starving then you too would think it necessary to steal food for them. Whether it be right or wrong is secondary to your children eating.

a reply to: InTheLight

Absolutely, although I think there is something we've overlooked here.

Kids don't serve time.
We should really be getting them to get dinner.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: InTheLight

No, but you are making a lot of assumptions about the baker.
That loaf you stole to feed your starving kids.

Is it OK for me to steal that loaf from you to feed my starving kids?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't steal the bread.
Steal the bread, just don't pretend that your doing anything but putting your own needs above someone else's.

If your children were starving then you too would think it necessary to steal food for them. Whether it be right or wrong is secondary to your children eating.

Even the bible says there is no sin in stealing to survive. The sin is actually on a world where that exists as the last resource for some people.

However, there is a difference between risking the lives of others, armed robbery, and stealing from the poor and taking their hard earned savings, than from poaching on the kings land or the loaf of bread.

And I'm not recommending theft in any way, just speaking on where the sin lies. Don't even like the word sin, prefer dsyfunction or wrong doing or harm lies. The moral issue.

The crime issue is somewhat different as some of the crimes on book legally are morally wrong and corrupt. And following all their dictates becomes a matter of conscious for those who think deeply on things.

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Abednego

" Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose? "


Absolutely Not . A Determined Persons Will is the Greatest Force in this World . It could Create a Paradise on Earth , or Utterly Destroy it . The Will is an Expression of the Soul Unbound....

Don't get me wrong. I know it is a bit confusing. We are free to choose, we have the freedom to choose whatever we "want", but the choices are already determined.
At this moment we are limited by our material physical condition, but the soul can roam free, but still the choices are determined.
This is one of the mysteries to understand God's plan. We are free to choose but He already knows the outcome, because He made all the possible choices available.
In the end there are only 2 outcomes, you either did right or wrong. No matter how many choices you made of your free will, there is only 2 outcomes. God will be the one deciding which one suits you.

Your Right.........)

a reply to: Abednego

In Western philosophy, "Free Will" is not a well-defined term.

Does "free" mean unrestricted, and does "will" mean action, volition or determination?

If we changed the term to mean "unrestricted volition" then I don't believe that exists. There are restrictions to the choices we can make when acting and as has been mentioned, this results in only a small sample of actual decisions we can realistically make.

If we changed the term into "unrestricted determination" then I would agree that it exists. Many people throughout history and some living today have been able to effect positive change into their lives despite going through suffering and turmoil. Such stern internal determination was able to triumph over such extraordinary external pressures.

originally posted by: Abednego
We are free to choose, we have the freedom to choose whatever we "want", but the choices are already determined.

'A man can do as he wills but he cannot will what he wills.' Arthur Schopenhauer.