The USS Lexington has been found

Paul Allen, sponsor the great beast down in the Mojave that we all hope Zaph gets good pix of, has been out looking for interesting bits. His interests seem to run to WW2. He sponsored the hunt for finding the USS Lexington. The Lex was lost in the battle of the Coral Sea in WW2. Japanese carrier based bombers did the blow. 2,000 sailors were evacuated from the sinking ship while 200 died.

news.usni.org...

Coral Sea was a turning point for Naval Aviation. She's in incredible condition for having been down there so long.

a reply to: anzha

very cool find. Thanks for posting!!

For those who desire to know a bit more about Lady Lex.

She was, along with her sister ship USS Saratoga (CV-3), converted on the ways from planned battle cruisers.

They were, 'til late in WWII, the largest aircraft carriers afloat. It was with these two ships, along with USS Langley, that US Naval aviation truly began to come of age.

Coral Sea was, as much in my own humble opinion as the Battle of Midway a month later, the turning point in the Pacific War. It marked the zenith of Japanese ambitions in the Pacific. It was the first naval battle on the open sea in which neither side saw the other.

The first three US navy carriers.

Top to bottom are USS Saratoga, with a black stripe running around the top of the large stack. USS Lexington, with a vertical stripe from the top of the stack to the base. USS Langley, a converted collier, too slow to operate with the two former battle cruisers.

Planes still had the meatball in the roundels.


I wish I had the money to go chase deep sea wrecks or finance a giant albatross of a space program. What a blast he must be having.

a reply to: RadioRobert

That was, I think, a Douglas TBD Devastator. Quite simply, the worst attack plane in the entire history of the US navy...as was horrifically demonstrated at Midway, a month later...when Torpedo 8 from USS Hornet was completely wiped out, with one man surviving, Torpedo Six from Enterprise were all shot down save for, if I'm remembering correctly, 4 planes, and Torpedo Three, originally from USS Saratoga, losing all but two.

The roundel was removed by early '43, perhaps earlier, on all US military aircraft. I figure you know that already, though...

Nice find and hope some sort of memorial can be laid for the families.

a reply to: seagull

VT-8 got hammered with both Avengers and Devastators at Midway. They started getting Avengers just before Midway, and sent a detachment to Hawaii under Lt Harold Larson. They arrived the day after Hornet sailed, and sent six on to Midway. They attacked first without cover and five of them were shot down. The surviving aircraft landed severely damaged, with two survivors. The Devastators off Hornet attacked later, with only Ensign George Gay surviving.

a reply to: seagull

I think the roundel was ordered removed about the same time, but a ship deployed and in the midst of operations probably had more pressing concerns than repainting.

And yes, it was a Devastator. Cockpit framing gives it away. It was actually pretty remarkable when introduced before the war-- it was just quickly outclassed by the Avenger a few years later. The few Avengers available didn't do any better at Midway and suffered heavy losses against unopposed Zeroes, too. Hard to judge them by one performance. But with twice as much power, the Avenger had a lot more going for it and was an obvious choice to replace the Devastators in the fleet.

a reply to: Zaphod58

At 2 miles deep, there isn't much in the way of oxygen in the water, which would limit corrosion to the Lady Lex.

I hope she is to deep to vanish , as many ww2 wrecks are being salvaged /vanished for the metal as after the atomic bombs were exploded the metal is not the same

www.livescience.com...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Within a couple of months, ironically enough, the Devastators would have been completely replaced by the TBF. By the time the Solomons campaign opened in August with US troops landing on Guadalcanal, it'd been totally replaced.

No aircraft would have done well unescorted against Zeros, especially those particular Zeros of the Kido Butai's First Air Fleet. But low and slow, like Devastator low and slow, isn't likely to meet with much success. But if the attacks had been coordinated with any degree of success maybe more would have survived, as they did, indeed, do better at Coral Sea against lesser opponents (IJN Shoho, in particular).

It's kind of strange when Douglas could come out with, perhaps, the best dive bomber of the war, in the SBD-3 and 5, they kinda missed the boat with the TBD-1, though as RadioRobert pointed out, it was, when it came out very much state of the art.

It never ceases to amaze me, that within, essentially, a year of Coral Sea/Midway (May/June '42), the tide had turned so very dramatically. With Japan totally on the defensive, and the US Navy, in the Central Pacific reigning supreme.

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Yeah, that's my thought, too.

I'm trying to recall just how deep those other ships were...

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: seagull

I think the roundel was ordered removed about the same time, but a ship deployed and in the midst of operations probably had more pressing concerns than repainting.

Too true. My Dad had just arrived in Hawai'i the month before Coral Sea, he was Army Air Corp, later USAAF, attached to a P40 squadron. He had a couple of pictures from that time that showed the roundels still in the pre-War paint job, that would have been around that time. I have no idea where those pictures ended up...a real shame.

And yes, it was a Devastator. Cockpit framing gives it away. It was actually pretty remarkable when introduced before the war-- it was just quickly outclassed by the Avenger a few years later. The few Avengers available didn't do any better at Midway and suffered heavy losses against unopposed Zeroes, too. Hard to judge them by one performance. But with twice as much power, the Avenger had a lot more going for it and was an obvious choice to replace the Devastators in the fleet.

It was a very useful aircraft, with much longer range, far more payload. I'd almost forgotten the Avengers on Midway...'til you and Zaph reminded me. Thanks!! I hate forgetting stuff that I know, but that slip my mind when I really need it...

I actually discovered that they actually had a TBD floatplane, either on the drawing board or in prototype. Anyone know anything about that? I could look it up, but it's more fun this way.

a reply to: seagull

They were shallow. The seven that are gone in the Java Sea were only 200 feet or so.

The Naval Museum has released some still shots of the Devastator. It's actually quite amazing to see.

originally posted by: seagull
I actually discovered that they actually had a TBD floatplane, either on the drawing board or in prototype. Anyone know anything about that? I could look it up, but it's more fun this way.

TBD-1A. They turned one into a floatplane. You can get a model kit of it actually.

Holland was going to order them, once they made some changes to the design, but Germany invaded before they could.

a reply to: stonerwilliam

May not be so pressing a market anymore, the pre atom bomb metal that is. The reason being that the East Bay Bridge, as in San Francisco Bay, was recently torn down. It predates the atomic blasts and its steel, so long as it is not smelted, only machined, will easily flood the market.

a reply to: anzha

The vulnerability of carriers in general was brought out during WWII. Of course back then, radar wasn't as sophisticated as it is now, and satellites didn't even exist.

Let alone hypersonic sea skimming anti shipping missiles, rocket torpedoes and smart mines.

Nice find.

a reply to: intrptr

Vs lasers, hypervelocity projectiles (5" or railgun), VLS magazines that are hundreds of cells deep and the aircraft on the carrier itself. And carriers have last ditch point defenses as well.

And subs? Well, the carriers are never alone, both from escorts with ASW capabilities and with their own sub(s). And shortly to have UUVs as well. The XLUUV is to be armed.

*A* carrier is *ALONE* vulnerable. But its never a carrier *ALONE*.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: seagull

They were shallow. The seven that are gone in the Java Sea were only 200 feet or so.

The Naval Museum has released some still shots of the Devastator. It's actually quite amazing to see.

That one's a Dauntless! Haha. They're so tricksy!