I have done more harm than good.

Hello fellow Ats members. It has been a while since I have posted - life has been crazy, and amazing. So many things have changed, from having two new jobs ( both being my own LLCS) to raising an amazing 18 month old daughter.. Life has been a ride, but I wouldn't give it up for anything. I feel I've experienced some amazing things since I've last posted.

That being said, I've had a lot of time to ponder and meditate about various things, and, as is usual, I've come to find out that I've been wrong about so many things. This is not a pity party, and is not intended to be sad or the like, I simply want to share my thoughts with some of you, hoping maybe others have their own experiences of growth to share.

Over the years I've been quite vocal about my political opinions, and quite vocal in opposition, as well. I just had to adamantly defend or attack the position or the people that were "in the wrong" - it's like I felt that I alone carried some ability to sway a person from a belief they held, as I disregarded their belief as being valid.

Oh, how much damage have I done?

To start, I've now learned that attacking a person's belief in a direct manner only has that person double down in that belief - it doesn't matter whether I was supposedly correct or incorrect, I was only fueling their belief, making it more valid in their minds, because now they were instinctively defending it, and the more they defended it, the more they had to justify that defense - its not like humans to put a large amount of effort into something, only to give up on it.. If only I had realized this, I'd have approached conversations a lot differently.

Speaking of approaching things a lot differently - I've heard that sometimes when a scientist has a theory they are testing, they'll do everything possible to disprove it, rather than just do things that prove it - in this way, they get closer to the truth, because they are not seeking to validate their findings through a process that can only confirm a belief - they actually challenge it, and challenge it hard. Learning of this methodology has helped me see that I should always be seeking to disprove my beliefs. I now try to spend time searching the opposite of a position I hold - in this way I can see the validity of the opposition, or reinforce my own position if the facts of my position still hold up after I see the whole picture.

Lastly, I've come to believe that when it comes to political opinion, my beliefs are not inherently more valuable or correct compared to others. When I imagine myself in another's shoes, I really start to wonder if all of the opinions I hold are actually well thought out, logically and statistically valid - or if I am more a product of my surroundings and upbringing - and I've come to learn that many of my long held beliefs are the latter.

Long story short - I now seek ways to communicate more effectively and genuinely with others, avoiding attacking others and understanding where they are coming from. I seek to challenge my beliefs, and change them where it is reasonable to do so. I realize I do not hold the answers for mankind, and that only as a group united, can we really come to resolve our problems.

And I would love to hear how you all believe we can best do that.

Thank you,

Deadlyhope

Who hasn't?

Anyone tell you diff is a liar.

2 to tango.

You sound young and on a journey to self-discovery.

Thoughtful people do mature in their thinking as life provides many opportunities to learn and hopefully, grow. Trying to hammer your ideas into others just isn't effective, as you have discovered.

Hoping for a united group to solve problems would be ideal but not too realistic due to so many differences in people and their needs. Hence, different governments and community needs.

Congratulations on your successes. Hope life continues to treat you well.

a reply to: deadlyhope

firstly, there are a lot here the moment a question is asked, they think its a personal attack and get on the defensive and come back with an ad hom and completely derails the conversation. its a snowball effect.
example, the first reply. already making it a hr said she said so its all goo discussion... and away it goes.

secondly, a very strong partisanship mentality keeps any rational discussion from happening. people fail to realize, corruption of the "left" or "right" affect the country and our society as a whole.

thirdly, repetition shouldn't equal persuasion. even if an argument is flawed, some people will keep repeating 4 or 5 pages until they convince themselves its the truth.

lastly, i can go on and keep criticizing, but i would fall in one of the first 3 categories eventually! the hardest thing to do these days is to look at oneself objectively, or simply say i was ill-informed or plain wrong. internet and social media and news outlets and even government officials seem to be reinforcing this mindset.

i really hate it, but I fall in those categories at some point or the other. but its about progress, not perfection. the worst thing one can do is to remain stagnant and stubborn.
so im with you 100% in the effort to better communicate.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Dont beat yourself up deadly.


Each individual is certainly entitled to their own beliefs (we wont get into the semantics of the power of thought).

That being said, sometimes, a person's beliefs go beyond simply affecting the mental plane, however. Sometimes their beliefs are the fuel for their behaviors.

This is all well and good, until those behaviors cause direct, unjust negative effects on others.

There are a variety of factors that go into the equation, including the principle of forgiving people for their mistakes, but if that person is causing too many problems, and their belief(s) are at the core of their negative affect, they really are seen as no different than a bacterial infection amongst people.

Like with any bacterial infection, it is addressed and treated.

The reason why I say, "dont beat yourself up", is because sometimes, the methodology behind that "treatment" varies from person to person, as different approaches are needed to achieve the same outcome, aka, a less harmful person.

I fully agree that most of the time, attacking directly a person's beliefs only strengthens them in the person. However, it is highly possible that, from a psychological standpoint, that particular person needs to hear it that way, to feel the attack upon their conscious, to be primed for a more diplomatic approach later down the line.

It could very well be the necessary way to actually eventually induce a positive and sustained change in the person's psyche.



Some would argue that what ive written is horrible and akin to the thought police of 1984.

Too bad. You all, yes, every single one of you, at some point, to some degree, participate in thought policing whether you know it or not. Every moment of every day our minds receive signals from our environment, including signals from others.

Many of these signals are meant to teach us lessons and mold us into better people.

I have experienced being under the thumb of the proverbial "thought police" and let me tell you somethin, its best to figure out why, and how to adapt, if your life, and the lives of others, are of any importance to you.

I read the title and for a split second I thought it was going to be a post from HRC! I should have known that evil witch would never apologise lol.

Good is in the eye of the beholder....

a reply to: burgerbuddy

2 to tango.

Or , 2 to tangle ?

Thing is, people have devolved intellectually nowadays.

Not that long ago, people did not respond so aggressively to perceived criticisms of their beliefs. Now it is par for the course. An attack on somebodys personal belief is a good as a personal attack on them. Add in things like networking and social media (giving people the ability to exclusively live in their very own echo chambers) and you have a recipe for a very narcissistic society. I predict that society will only become increasingly narcissistic and self serving.

I have a family member who believes the Earth is 6,000 years old and all of this was created in 6 days by a wizard single parent who lives in the sky and writes books. I am not bashing the bible, it is after all the most popular book of all time for a reason. However, interpreting metaphors as real events is not how it was intended to be read.

No amount of information I present to her changes her mind. She is adamant in her belief. Just like everyone else is in theirs.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
only as a group united, can we really come to resolve our problems.

And I would love to hear how you all believe we can best do that.

Thank you,

Deadlyhope

Have you heard about the business sanctions that are piling up for the NRA as a response to the Florida shooting? This stems from people finally realizing that politics gets nothing accomplished. I'm glad to hear that you are looking for new ways to communicate more clearly, your ideas to others. We can all start by leaving the political angle of ANY issue out of conversations. IF we are still too jittery to get really personal about a topic, keep it on a business level. Like all those companies who are effectively boycotting the NRA.

I could go on on, but i'm still on my first cup of coffee and will probably screw up this whole post if I get long-winded. In closing, if you want to communicate more effectively, stop using the political angle of a subject to get your point across. Politics just muddy's the waters. USe a business or personal perspective instead.

a reply to: deadlyhope


Belated congratulations on the birth of your daughter that will probably

be your most successful and rewarding purpose in life (along with any other

children you may have) your reserves and opinions will be sorely tested in that

part of your life.


Your opinions and beliefs are still not static, they will alter and change as you

progress through life, till you reach the comfort of old age .... when you can

look back with the wisdom and comfort of having finally got there

originally posted by: deadlyhope

Long story short - I now seek ways to communicate more effectively and genuinely with others, avoiding attacking others and understanding where they are coming from. I seek to challenge my beliefs, and change them where it is reasonable to do so. I realize I do not hold the answers for mankind, and that only as a group united, can we really come to resolve our problems.

And I would love to hear how you all believe we can best do that.

Thank you,

Deadlyhope

a reply to: deadlyhope

I'm getting old.
I'd like to think I know a few things that I didn't know many years ago.

One thing that I am sure of is that life is a balance.
You can't fight against or for everything.
You must choose your battles.
Own your failures,
Own your achievement,
Try to be better every day.

This philosophy let's me sleep at night.

Nice to see everyone having these Epiphany, personal "come to Jesus'" moments. Does that mean that I'm not a "people like you" anymore and can join back up with the intellectually anointed?

In my book, it's a sign of wisdom to realize your humility. Dunning-Kruger is strong in politics.

a reply to: olaru12

I wouldn't deem myself as intellectually anointed, quite the contrary, actually. I often depend on others to help me see the intellectual side of things, as I have my shortcomings when it comes to processing and retaining information.

How are you, olaru?

It's been a while. I remember you were quite active when I last was, it's good to see you and some other members still around.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I agree

I used to think I could be some kind of hero, change everything and everybody, now I realize that's not possible, or necessary.

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

Look up street epistemology. There are ways of questioning a person's beliefs in a way that will cause deeper thought and introspection, and can cause a person to alter their views, based on their own findings within the conversation. I haven't tried it myself, not having a need, but it seems it would be more effective and gentle than my previous frustrated arguments about uranium dating and what not. Facts fly over all of our heads if we have a deeply held belief.

a reply to: Justso

As far as representing the differences of the people - I believe states and counties need a lot more power and ability to choose what happens on their boundaries, or rather where their funding/local tax income should be spent. I couldn't imagine the exact setup, obviously you would have to have some ground rules like funding roads before a football stadium... all I know is that the federal government is a self-proclaimed "one size fits all" - when it doesn't fit anyone at all.

Who hasn't? Specially when young.

Ill openly admit........i grew up in england (now live in Canada) i was dramatically far right and was proud to say i was a national socialist. I bullied, was mean to (never violant) and very vocal anout my beliefs.

However, just like principles, morals etc the body ages, and we get older and we change. As does our beliefs, ideologies etc. You realize you were never that way but eas just trying to find your place in the world.

What you have done in the past makes the future you. You have realized you have hurt in the past but now are focusing in the future which is bright. Never look backwards. Only forward. Living in the past will destroy you.