Read the arrest report on the Florida shooting suspect

a reply to: Khaleesi

He needs to be questioned and so does whoever he interviewed. "Did you have foreknowledge of the shooting?"

...and there needs to be a lot of follow up questions regardless of their answers. Our media is absolutely worthless.

For some reason, both Hogg and the girl he was interviewing (Alex View?), seemed to feel 9:32 was an accurate reflection of the time.

a reply to: Boadicea

I've read conflicting reports that Nikolas Cruz was adopted at birth and that he was two years old when he was adopted.

I've also read conflicting reports that he shares a biological mother with his younger brother (different fathers) and that he and his brother aren't biologically related.

I'd like to nail down the official word on those facts...do you have any insight?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Boadicea

I've read conflicting reports that Nikolas Cruz was adopted at birth and that he was two years old when he was adopted.

I've also read conflicting reports that he shares a biological mother with his younger brother (different fathers) and that he and his brother aren't biologically related.

I'd like to nail down the official word on those facts...do you have any insight?

I have read the same conflicting reports that you have. If anyone has been able to clear up the discrepancies, I haven't seen it. I have wondered if it came from the woman who took the boys in after their mother's death, and who filed for control of their inheritance the day after the rampage:

REVEALED: Woman who cared for Florida shooter 'filed court papers demanding control of his $800,000 inheritance from his mother just ONE DAY after the massacre'

Unnamed sources "close to" the woman say that she had the younger brother involuntarily committed for psychiatric evaluation before filing, because he was going to "finish what his brother started." Perhaps she did claim they had the same mother in her reports to authorities. But I don't know anything for sure.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: face23785

I think we can confidently rule out that students were still hiding in the school at 9:32 pm. Unless, you have something to suggest there were some.

I wonder when Hogg gave his first news interview following the shooting.

I think we can confidently rule that out too. It sounds like they're not longer hiding and they have a radio on in the background, so he's interviewing her at 9:32pm.

Apparently there are more calls from/about the Cruz home than the sheriff was willing to admit:

Records Show Far More Calls For Sheriff's Deputies To Visit Suspected Florida Shooter's Home

The calls seemed to vary greatly:

Like many of the calls revealed by the Broward County Sheriff's Office, several of them involved domestic disturbance issues involving Cruz, his brother Zachary, and their adoptive mother.

Most of the calls involved their adoptive parents reporting that Zachary had not come home after curfew, or that he'd left the house without telling them or despite their objections. Others appear to be calls from neighbors, including one who reported the two brothers were throwing water balloons.

Doesn't sound like too big a deal in and of itself... except that the sheriff lied about it. Not sure why.

originally posted by: Khaleesi

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So it seems the first part of his video stating it's 9:32 is during the fire drill before the shooting. Why is he hiding in a closet during a fire drill? If there really was a fire, hiding in a closet would be stupid.

I just listened to this again. He definitely say it's 9:32 and she responds yes and she starts talking about guns. How does that make sense? It's hours before the shooting.

There's no indication whatsoever that it's 9:32 in the morning.

a reply to: Boadicea

The Washington Post says this:

Cruz was adopted at age 2 along with his 2-month-old brother, Zachary, by Lynda and Roger Cruz, friends and relatives said. Relatives said Nikolas and Zachary shared a biological mother but have different fathers.

link

Sun Sentinal says this:

Adopted at birth by a loving older couple, Nikolas Cruz seemed to struggle in recent years. His dad died when he was much younger and the 19-year-old’s mom died just 3 ½ months ago, neighbors, friends and family members said.

AND this:

Lynda and her husband, Roger, who died many years ago, adopted Nikolas and his biological brother, Zachary, after the couple moved from Long Island to Broward County.

Link

Which makes no sense because his brother is younger.

And I know I have read a couple of stories that say he was adopted at birth and he is not biologically related to his brother.

I guess we will have to wait to find out what story becomes the official version.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

That certainly is conflicting.

I'm puzzled by the following video. I believe it's true.

youtu.be...

Young lady says she was walking alongside Cruz during evacuation and talking to him, while she could hear shots being fired.


youtu.be...

youtu.be...

Florida witnesses say multiple shooters

originally posted by: face23785

....so he's interviewing her at 9:32pm.

No...

David tried to stay calm and help others. The classroom had two doors: if the shooter entered one, he thought, they could escape through another.

But he knew that might not be enough. "I realised I may not survive," he says. "It was going through everybody's minds at some point."

After around an hour, five members of a police Swat team burst into the classroom. They told people to get down, and put their hands up.

When they were allowed to stand up, they walked out of the classroom, then started running. Their hands were still in the air.

"At this time, they hadn't eradicated the suspect," says David. "We didn't know that, but they didn't have him. We were quite frankly running for our lives."

When he reached safety, David says he felt "shock - pure shellshock". He found his dad, and his sister. One of her friends was killed.

Link

So, not 9:32 p.m. They were allegedly in the closet about an hour.


ETA: I just noticed you meant they weren't hiding anymore...that they had just gathered in some other school in a small closet area with a visible classroom in the background, to talk about gun control after the shooting was over.

You cannot be serious.

originally posted by: sung47sung
I'm puzzled by the following video. I believe it's true.

youtu.be...

Young lady says she was walking alongside Cruz during evacuation and talking to him, while she could hear shots being fired.

I've seen that video and it is puzzling. It may be that she was hearing something else -- such as a door or locker slamming shut, even a car backfiring or officers pounding on doors as they cleared the building -- and mistook the sound for gunfire.

Or maybe she did hear actual gunfire...

youtu.be...

youtu.be...

Florida witnesses say multiple shooters

I cannot watch videos right now, but I recall five different kids claiming more than one shooter (including the girl above). They may be ones I've seen before... or maybe ones I haven't! So I'll watch when I get a chance -- thanks for the links!

There are a few other things that only make sense to me if there were multiple shooters -- or someone is lying. (ETA: Or someone is mistaken. That's always a possibility too). But it's impossible to nail anything down right now.

a reply to: sung47sung


Yes, pick at those statements to see what is buried beneath.

It's these types of possible misdirection that caused my to ask my prior questions.

There is a thing called "Fog of War", in which due to the high stress and rapidly changing events that people can be confused. It's something else when narratives are being pushed, stories are not close to being similar, and evidence of cover ups are being revealed, these are called "CONSPIRACIES".

a reply to: MotherMayEye

This lack of details is sooooooooo frustrating to me!

When he heard the bang, his classmates turned to each other. That sounded like a gun, they said.

The teacher closed the door. Within seconds, the fire alarm went off.

It sounded like a gun -- but according to the official account, Cruz set off the fire alarm before firing any shots. So what was it? Did they hear any more gunfire? Or what sounded like gunfire? In their building? And which building were they in?

"We instinctively walked outside," says David. "We thought it was a drill."

I'm assuming that he means walked outside the room -- not necessarily outside the building.

As David's class walked towards the evacuation zone, they saw a "tsunami" of people running towards them. They turned and followed the crowd down the corridor.

How does that work? They waited for the "tsunami" of people to politely pass them by without trampling them in their path and then they followed them?

What they didn't realise was this: they were heading towards the shooter.

"A very heroic janitor stopped us," says David. "He said, 'Don't go that way - he [the shooter] is over there'."

Then what was that "tsunami" of people running from in the other direction? So is it safe to assume that he wasn't hearing any gunfire himself at that point from any direction since they had to be told? And is it also safe to assume that he wasn't in the same building?

No real facts or details to put all of it together.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
a reply to: sung47sung


Yes, pick at those statements to see what is buried beneath.

It's these types of possible misdirection that caused my to ask my prior questions.

There is a thing called "Fog of War", in which due to the high stress and rapidly changing events that people can be confused. It's something else when narratives are being pushed, stories are not close to being similar, and evidence of cover ups are being revealed, these are called "CONSPIRACIES".

AND when specific facts and evidence are are impossible to come by, but opinions and speculation and rumors and gossip and Heaven only knows what else fills the vacuum.

a reply to: Boadicea


And like a vacuum, we must fill it with something. We can either find accurate facts that can be verified, facts that can be reasonably checked, or gossip that makes us all feel good. I can only hope that most (if not all) of us here want verifiable facts, or facts that can be reasonably checked. Hopefully nobody wants gossip that makes us feel good.

Questions should be asked, and answers should be found.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: MotherMayEye

All good questions that I don't have answers for.

My best guess in the grand scheme of it all is that we have three different vectors for mis- and dis-information -- with some crossover of interests, so also some cooperation/collaboration. First, the media spin... Second, the political spin... and Third, the CYA spin.

Regarding the virtual absence of parochial school shootings, I saw a conversation about that on another website. I think they found one parochial school shooting period. If I recall correctly, they found more military school shootings than parochial school shootings. It's something for the folks who study and analyze these things to consider.

Oh well please produce some links and s**t.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Khaleesi

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So it seems the first part of his video stating it's 9:32 is during the fire drill before the shooting. Why is he hiding in a closet during a fire drill? If there really was a fire, hiding in a closet would be stupid.

I just listened to this again. He definitely say it's 9:32 and she responds yes and she starts talking about guns. How does that make sense? It's hours before the shooting.

There's no indication whatsoever that it's 9:32 in the morning.

Go back and look at the video again and listen closely. The camera is on her face and she says something about looking around at all of the people in the closet. It is obvious at that time they are in the closet, right? Now, listen to that portion. You can hear the radio in the background. The same radio in the background of the rest of the interview. So if the interview without the visual of her face is later (9:32 pm would be 7 hours after the shooting) where are they? Somewhere they can still hear the same radio? The same radio sounds from the time they are in the closet. The sound of the radio is consistent throughout the interview. Approximately the same distance away. The volume doesn't change.

a reply to: Khaleesi

Here's another thing I found odd. Look at that video. Who took the video of the kids coming out with their hands up? Did he take that video? If there was an active shooter, that has not been killed or apprehended yet and you and a bunch of other students are hiding in a closet ... why would you come out of a hidden place to a window to record video? That makes no sense. The shooter is still on the loose. Who leaves a hiding place to take video when the danger has not passed yet?

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Forget all this, it's been decided, the dangers of porn and video games are much more serious than gun wielding lunatics who decide to turn schools into free for all safari hunts

I don't want to say this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. I do want to say it's pretty close. Right over the head, passed under the feet and nowhere in between.

a reply to: MotherMayEye



About as serious as a heart attack and/or gun shot.

But let's not get too critical. We're talking about lives here.