Brainstorming-Protect the Second Amendment But Also Create New Laws

In another forum this came up, and it seems there is no middle ground one side wants a total ban and scraping of the second amendment, the other side wants NO CHANGES at all. Neither position is tenable for Americans.

So what would you do to create a middle ground. Here are my idea's

AGE:
Most car-rental companies require renters to be at least 21 years old, the legal drinking age in America in most states is 21, so moving gun buying and ownership to that age, this does not infringe on the second amendment in my opinion, just like those other restrictions are there to restrict people that are less experienced in life and also known for doing immature things as a group. 21 is good age to start since they are also well out of high school by then too.

TYPE:
Bump Stocks and any left over type fully automatics, get rid of these they are not required for hunting or target practice or even personnel defense.

Mental Health:
Create a data base that can be quickly checked by any seller.

Buy Back Program
Offer $1000 for any gun to be turned in.

High Capacity Magazines
Unnecessary for private citizens, a dozen bullets is plenty.

What are your idea's?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Compromise is a great thing but some will be too stubborn to even attempt it.
Nice try though I agree with those ideas.

If you want to protect the second then protect the second.

Nothing,

Nada.

Zilch.

We already have to jump through too many hoops as it currently is.

High Capacity Magazines Unnecessary for private citizens, a dozen bullets is plenty.

Well then.

No one needs a smart phone,tablet, computer or the internets.

Back to smoke signals, and pencils and paper!

How about allow almost any type of firearm and magazine size. Would also allow concealed carry recognised across state lines.

However in order to have a firearm you need the specific license for that type of weapon. Getting the licence should require demonstrating ability to use, maintain and store the weapon safely to the highest standards. Should also require a psychiatric evaluation and would need renewed annually.

To appease concerns about tyrannical government the licencing should be done by a completely independent body.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Age: Make it 18.

At 18 you are allowed to legally vote, and be in the military (which means you're giving the government a blank check with your life).

I can not agree to 21.

Type: A bump stock is not a type of weapon. It's a modification.

Fully automatic weapons require a very expensive license to have. You can't just walk into Walmart and buy one.

Mental Health: Depends on who is making that data base and what the criteria is. Should not be one that is easy to get on, but impossible to get off. Governments make mistakes.....all the time. Governments also abuse systems....all the time.

Buy Back Program: if someone is stupid enough to tun in their 3,000 dollar gun for 1,000 dollars, I'm sure it's Darwin at work. Buy back from only registered gun owners too please.....unless you WANT to make criminals go out looking for more guns to steal and make money?

High Capacity Mags: How is this defined? Some places think that that anything over 9 bullets is "high capacity", making several hunting rifles I know off suddenly illegal.

Magazine changing is done quickly by those that know how to do it, and is not really going to make a impact on mass shootings one way or another.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Buy Back Program Offer $1000 for any gun to be turned in.

So right off the bat $1000.00? Right that doesnt cover half the cost of many guns.

High Capacity Magazines Unnecessary for private citizens, a dozen bullets is plenty.

well, I am unfamiliar with guns with 11` round magazines to arrive to your dozen rounds, however when doing target practice I personally enjoy not having to stop to reload every 10, or in your opinion 12 rounds...a nice couple 20 round magazines on say my 762, makes for more fun, but theres a life saving aspect to high capacity mags, for instance my 762.39 is a wild hog gun, ever hunted wild hog? Ever find out theres 15 of them? Right you havent...and they would just as soon eat you or me for dinner, just as much as I enjoy smoking and eating them. Let me tell you how scared youd be with your dozen rounds while being charged by a mess of wild hogs...

So if it isn’t legal to buy a firearm until you are 21 then technically they wouldn’t be considered a full adulafforded all rights enumerated in the constitution t and couldn’t sign a contract without parental or guardian approval. So then the military will have to increase the age barrier for the soldiers to fire weapons and increase the average age of a soldier.... or do you think the govt will send 18yr Old “minors” to war and be literally killing our minor children...? The govt will make an exemption status to fill their quotas I assume since we are all just bleeding targets for our enemies. So raise the age of adulthood and save a few more souls! When the kids can’t be recruited at highschool when they have no idea what life is like in the real world, then propaganda probably won’t be as effective.
I kinda like the premise of raising the age of adulthood just so the govt can’t steal our children for its needless wars. Gun ownership is a right set forth by the second amendment and if they aren’t old enough to enjoy all of their rights bestowed to them by our creator then they are still wards to their parents or guardians...
It is an all or none situation when it comes to infringing on someone’s rights. There are many different avenues this can and will blossom into.
My simple response is if they raise the age of ownership then raise the age of adulthood
If they don’t raise the age of adulthood then leave them gun rights alone.
I personally think all laws should be in line with age of adulthood and at the moment of reaching that magical number, they are fully adult. No incremental steps, just kick them in the butt into the real world. Heck birds do it when chicks get old enough, momma bird pushes them out of the nest, it’s a sink or swim world out there.

You can't erase bad parenting consequences with more laws.

You can't buy guns back with the gun owners taxes.

You can't let an authority that wants you disarmed dictate what constitutes mental health.

You can stick a rag in a 5 dollar gas can and throw it into a theater if you are whacked out enough.

You can drive a truck through a crowd if you are nuts.

Solve the income tax, property tax, utilities, food, income equality, msm 24/7 panic news, corporate gov backed raping of America going on, so we can get back to a time when 1 parent could pay a mortgage, take a trip each year, and raise a family properly off of one blue collar job.

We had knives, guns and bows at school when we were kids. It was a boys thing from boyscouts.

Cost of living has sky rocketed since the late 70's, middle class had been priced out of being able to train their kids with 2 parents working, leaving this job to the schools, and the internet.

Someone disrespected little johnny, little johnny never learned self esteem and emotional control.

People with no emotional control, or respect for others will snap.

a reply to: ScepticScot

To appease concerns about tyrannical government the licencing should be done by a completely independent body.

Idependent won't work, they will just start a corporation, like I suspect they did with Google.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Exactly right
/applause

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: ScepticScot

To appease concerns about tyrannical government the licencing should be done by a completely independent body.

Idependent won't work, they will just start a corporation, like I suspect they did with Google.

The US already has more elections for more bodies than just about anywhere else. Just add one more.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Most car-rental companies require renters to be at least 21 years old, the legal drinking age in America in most states is 21, so moving gun buying and ownership to that age, this does not infringe on the second amendment in my opinion, just like those other restrictions are there to restrict people that are less experienced in life and also known for doing immature things as a group. 21 is good age to start since they are also well out of high school by then too.

And yet we've decided that 18 is old enough to join the military and to vote. An 18 year old can join the military and go drive a $4.5 million dollar tank with a cannon and two machine guns, but we're supposed to tell him he can't own a shotgun?

Bump Stocks and any left over type fully automatics, get rid of these they are not required for hunting or target practice or even personnel defense

Bump stocks are an accessory, and an accessory that does #-all to actually improve a weapon. People who've obtained fully automatic weapons have passed more stringent background checks and requirements than people who buy shotguns do.

Mental Health: Create a data base that can be quickly checked by any seller.

I guess your fear of guns trumps everybody else's right to medical privacy?

Buy Back Program Offer $1000 for any gun to be turned in.

So I can go pickup half a dozen hi-points and make an easy five grand? Sweet.

High Capacity Magazines Unnecessary for private citizens, a dozen bullets is plenty.

It's been demonstrated that magazine restrictions do essentially nothing to slow down a reasonably proficient shooter, and slow down a novice shooter only slightly more.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Age: 18 is fine. If you're old enough to vote, or go to war, you're old enough to buy a gun of any sort.

Type: A bump stock, seemingly the bogey man of the moment, isn't a weapon, it's a modification. Automatic weapons are already heavily regulated, unnecessarily so in my humble opinion.

Mental Health: By what criteria? Whose criteria? Some civil servant with an ax to grind?

Buy Back: More incentive for people to steal weapons, just what's needed.

High Capacity Magazines: Who gets to decide what's necessary for private citizens? ...and magazine capacity really has little to do with getting rds down range. My Smith and Wesson .38 is a revolver, for which I have three speed loaders--24 rds total--on call, if you will. Takes me just over two seconds to empty spent casings, and replace with six fresh rds from the speed loaders. Not much more time to send those six rds down range with aimed fire. Figure 3 seconds per operation- Initial 6-reload-fire off six-reload-fire off six-reload-fire off last six. 21 seconds--round that off to twenty for ease of math, that's 60 rds per minute. No magazines necessary. Just an old 6 shooter. My .45 with a seven rd magazine, 3 spare, is about the same. So that's 28 rds aimed fire down range, in just under 30 seconds.

Magazine capacity is no factor, or little. But it sure sounds impressive when folks talk about how necessary limited capacity magazines are. Mine are less than what is legal, or suggested--yet I can, on a good day, match or even exceed, 60 rds an minute.

Here's my counter proposal.

How about we address the real issues involved here, rather than the scary inanimate object? I've little interest in this so called compromise, as it's me doin' all the compromising. Hardly fair, is it?

The counter arguments are going to be:

AGE:
The person will find a weapon from someone else to use.

TYPE:
Won't affect anyone owning these illegally.

Mental Health:
Create a data base that can be quickly checked by any seller.

Buy Back Program
People would trade in their old weapons, take the money and buy new weapons

High Capacity Magazines
They could always carry two or more weapons fully loaded. The NRA will point out that you never have enough ammunition in a home invasion until the invaders are dead or gone.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State

I think the 2d is more focused on the security of a free state. To have that you need to have a militia whenever a militia becomes a necessary thing.

People that are ever so willing to infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Can you please explain how this is middle ground?

Recall, when the 2nd was written, the American citizen was given all the cake -- the right to keep and bear arms. The people who did not want to allow them that freedom were given no cake.

Any middle ground, only involves taking cake from one group to give to the other group. So how is this middle ground? Why does the group with all of what they want sacrifice some of it to appease the other? You need to offer incentive to them to create real compromise, so what is the other group giving up, and don't tell me it's just "They aren't getting all the cake!"

Because every time we go through this process no cake is ever given back. All that happens is that more cake is lost.

Perhaps we could talk about the other group sacrificing gains they have made in other areas or giving some of the cake back in other ways?

But until this happens, all of the middle ground talk is just fancy speak for "We want more of your cake!"

a reply to: BlueJacket

Thanks buddy, I don't know where to start.

The exporting of our best resource of quality food for plastic chemical poison from the lowest bidder, the 1600 per year hike I just got on property tax, or my house gets taken and sold, the 300 per month I pay for water to go from everyones toilet back to my mouth that is full of toxins etc, etc x infinity.
The United States of Anxiety MSM blessed by Odumbo to throw a match on the whole problem.
I could run on sentence this stuff for 3 hrs.

I can't imagine why people are snapping.

It all just adds up, if you can't enjoy life, what's the point?
Live to work for others wealth?
Yeah, I will pass.

The parenting thing is too obvious though really.

If I didn't train my Rottweiler to know how to act in society, because I am always working, he would attack people too. Difference is, he's doing it from fear, humans need to deal with much more complex sets of feelings.

It's like the bullying campaign. Let's just arrest and never address the root, bad parental influence.

We are going nowhere healthy in this country real fast

The most you can do is spread the word and hope people wake tfu before we are all in an asylum.

a reply to: stormcell

does nobody here suggesting retailers have access to other citizens medical records have any understanding regarding HIPPA?

my god

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33




AGE:
Most car-rental companies require renters to be at least 21 years old, the legal drinking age in America in most states is 21, so moving gun buying and ownership to that age, this does not infringe on the second amendment in my opinion, just like those other restrictions are there to restrict people that are less experienced in life and also known for doing immature things as a group. 21 is good age to start since they are also well out of high school by then too.

does this go for all guns? Or just semi-auto rifles? The problem isn’t really people’s age though. It’s more about their mental state. Very few kids ever go on to become violent. But a lot of kids are quite responsible and never shoot anybody. I think if you are expected to be an adult at 18, you should be able to defend yourself. You can join the military at 18.

And finally. The younger they are acclimated to firearm safety, the more comfortable and safety conscious they will be when they are 18.

TYPE:
Bump Stocks and any left over type fully automatics, get rid of these they are not required for hunting or target practice or even personnel defense.

fully auto weapons aren’t really a problem either. They are highly restricted already, making them too expensive and too high profile to use them for petty crime. Kids and criminals already have no access to them.

Mental Health:
Create a data base that can be quickly checked by any seller.

this already exists. This last kid should have been on this list but multiple agencies, including the fbi and local sherrifs had been warned about this kid. Even getting as far as people asking that he have his guns removed, and telling authorities that he will be the next school shooter. Literally. The authorities decided not to do anything about the rediculous amounts of warnings they were getting about this kid. I don’t know how anyone can blame existing gun laws and procedures for this last event.

Buy Back Program
Offer $1000 for any gun to be turned in.

I can go to the hardware store and buy materials to make 100 firearms for about $100 bucks. Then i can sell them to these gun buy backs for $1000? I can maybe get behind this.

High Capacity Magazines
Unnecessary for private citizens, a dozen bullets is plenty.

i’m guessing you have never shot a gun before.

I'll throw this out and see if it sticks but I think there should be way more invested into some type of school programs. Put what we think are wasted funds into classes about bullying. Kids are down right crule. So say kids are making fun of someone who is different, if the childs wireing is off to beguin with, pretty straight forward what end result might be if they reach their breaking point. Far as firearms, I LOVE my guns but do I really need a 20-30+ round Magazine? Honestly not really. I do just fine with a 10 round mag. Are 20+ round mags fun? you bet! But I'm ok with 10 round mags. I'm a former Marine by the way. I also grew up around firearms and have been taught by family members about firearm saftety as well. But back to the schools...Some how, have staff that are keeping an eye out for signals with kids. Don't make it intemidating by sending in the FBI and have the kid taken out in cuffs. Have counceling for them. Have supprt groups. IF they show signals , maybe have specail classes for them? If the parents don't care about the kids, at least hopefully the kids would find some help in schools. If we have adult support groups, why not for kids? I say get to the root of the issue.Banning firearms is only putting a band aid on the issue. So many people are taking anti depressants to mask the issue but are they working on the cause of depression? In a nutshell, I say invest WAY more into help for the kids whom really need it. Too many kids have lost their lives to bullying. Just my 2 cents.