Let's Have A Nuts And Bolts UFO Discussion

Let's have a nuts and bolts UFO discussion. As a sometimes engineering student who's considered himself an engineer and scientist as long as he's understood the meaning of the words, I'm fascinated by discussions of what might make some of these storied craft work. I get frustrated when nice squishy beefy UFO folk myths tend to wax philosophical/psychological/spiritual/occult, or spin off into the government distrust/control loop, or a combination of the two often.

Nothing wrong with those discussions, they have an important place in ufology as a topic in general I think. ATS does a great job of chopping these topics up and serving them out to us, and I am very pleased to have this wonderful learning resource at my disposal. The problem is a discussion of the technology tends to get lost in the shuffle.

Of course this is not always the case I wouldn't even try to argue that. I've come across plenty of great technical material to learn about here at ATS. Nevertheless, this aspect of ufology needs more attention. I will note a contention here that a sort of forum slide is occurring here in regards to this topic, whether intentional or otherwise. I'm certainly not accusing anyone specific of anything specific, not trying to have that argument, though undoubtedly that kind of activity does occur intentionally from time to time.

This owes naturally to the fact that the study of exotic unidentified craft often touches on the national secrets of nation states. Secrets must be kept, and though I suspect it is often a fool's errand, I don't make those rules, and, well, here we are. That being said, there is plenty of UFO related technology that can be discussed. Let's move beyond this tendency to slide away from more technical discussions.

The intent of this thread then, is to start and continue more technical discussions and speculation into the nature of these craft. Please refrain from branching into a philosophical, occult, or ufology control loop type discussion. Please refrain from posting a lengthy reply arguing all of the reasons that you think I shouldn't narrow the discussion in this fashion. I want to be up front and say right now that I will alert all of these posts and ask for their removal. There are a thousand threads on this board discussing those aspects of ufology, this one's about the physical, nuts and bolts technology.

I know there's a crossover with technology and mind as it relates to this topic, so I've decided to create a companion topic to this thread to start a more technical discussion of that type of technology and to help us avoid one of the control loops that often obfuscates this topic. That will be linked here. Let's have a technical discussion about UFO technology as it relates to the mind over there.

I'm not sure whether the technical aspects of abduction need their own thread as distinct from this, but I may decide to create one. Liked I said, I'd prefer to discuss the science and engineering of the technology and the physical equipment, though I think abduction accounts may have some technical speculation to offer in this regard. I think suppression of exotic technology is within the scope of this thread, so that is okay, though I suppose it may also eventually engender its own thread. If so these threads will be linked here.

I was hoping to make this thread somewhat layman friendly, so I'm asking posters to offer explanations of the technology as they understand them where possible to help make it more enjoyable for our less technically minded readers. With that in mind, I will also start an extra technical thread on the same topic where we can go full on science nerd with it and get as technical as we want. Yummy!

I have not started any occult, philosophical, or control loop type companion threads to this one because I feel that that is a topic that is already adequately discussed here on ATS.

Here we go then! Let's craft a fun read together. I've got plenty of technical speculation I'd like to share. What do you think?

a reply to: TheBadCabbie
I love this idea and am to be honest kinda tipsy lol. Lets begin I think that a bit of technology that could become available to us and "they" have a much more complete knowledge of is a way to manipulate the atmosphere around a craft. I can see this as a way to help a craft obove and below "water" move around with much less resistance.....GO

Can rotating mercury really impart an anti-gravity effect?

What's the latest news on NASA's warp drive? Seems to have disappeared from the headlines.

star n flag cause this is a good thread idea.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie


www.bing.com...

www.bing.com...

IMHO this is how the interesting craft operate conceptually.

a reply to: one4all

interesting! how would you start the discussion on why cavitation induced plasma is a contending concept for ufo propulsion. let's get the conversation going!

also I'm giving everyone who participates in this thread a star per post and encourage every other participating poster in this thread to do so too.

I'm doing this in the interest of comraderie as i feel this thread should have a open and upbeat tone to it where people are able to freely propose and discuss their ideas relating to nuts n bolts ufo talk ***provided they stick to the OPs stipulation of no off topic discussion of " philosophical, occult, or ufology control loop type discussion. "***

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

'Nuts n Bolts' is so out of fashion that nobody ever uses the phrase anymore. It's been cast out amidst mutterings of 'space is very big' and 'where's the physical evidence?' Both points are rational obstacles to the ETH and its diverse fleets of camera shy harbingers. The nuts n bolts made lots of sense to the Post-War West when societies were full of veterans and men who could fix an engine. The NICAP boards and Blue Book guys were all science, engineering and Intelligence focused so...nuts n bolts, hulls and propulsion systems were assumed.

I love this insightful image:


Times change and we no longer think of UFOs as metal containers piloted by 'flesh n blood' humanoids. It's become more intuitive to imagine advanced devices with sentient technology. Bracewell Probes, AI machines conceived by Type 2-3 civilisations like Iain M Banks dreamed about. Our militaries don't send piloted vehicles to bomb the ME, do they? No. They send remotely controlled drones and it makes sense that any advanced tech would act similarly.

Still, it's interesting to look at the old reports and it's hard not to come away with 'nuts n bolts.' Witnesses sometimes described surfaces that were similar to riveted steel. I can think of a few that included details like panelled types of metal. A favourite is the old Rogue River report of '49 that involved several witnesses and three minutes of observation. Here's the sketch and it's obviously a depiction of a solid vehicle:



Minot '69 is another with many military and security personnel reporting nocturnal lights and then a landed object on the outskirts of the nuclear base. 'Landed' is an assumptive term, but I use it because of the context of the reports. Not a light on the ground or a working lighthouse; they were emphatically describing a physical something that was there for a short amount of time.

Perhaps my favourite of recent years came from a BBC journalist on his way to work in the early hours. He described crossing paths with a lit-up, disc-shaped aircraft. Of course, it's a 'single witness' sighting and rests entirely on how much reliability is given to Mike Sewell. I like it and it harks back to the late 40s and 50s when classic reports tended to be fly-bys of metal-looking things.

We can ramble on about psychology, misinterpretations, faeries, demons, aliens and time-travelling Nazi masterminds. Whatever suits. It still bears consideration that a number of reports were of nuts n bolts vehicles.

a reply to: Kandinsky

nuts n bolts doesnt necessarily mean alien, extra terrestrial or extra dimensional. it just means physical hardware and machinery. hey could even be human endeavours. love the cases you mentioned in your post. more cases that can give us clues the better.

Here is nuts and bolts...


Vast majority of UFOs do not look like they would have life forms on them, so I do not think even if we have UFOs there is actually life attached to them.

Life in general is hard to kill off, mother earth has tried a number of times to see life exploded right back and we can assume the rest of the universe is the same. As tough as life seems to be species is the other end of the spectrum as in it goes extinct with even small changes.

With that said, I don't see species traveling the universe, but there is one thing that old mother nature can not effect and that is machines. Self replicating machines have all the time in the universe and it is suggested that it would take about 2 billion years to explore the known universe we see today. What this means is a species that has long come and gone might have reached the point to sending out self replicating machines that tirelessly collect information and send it back to a race long gone.

This would explain the lack of contact outside of conspiracies. I would think that true contract would look a lot more like District 9 than our super secret government cover up scenario we see today.

imo "aliens" are humans from the far future, visiting the past. They always pop up at important events spectating.
They cannot make contact and contaminant the this timeline .
Been watching abductees telling the same under hypnosis, that those who are visiting, are time travelers.
Perhaps not from earth because we could have spread to other planets/systems in the far far future.

I like to think that aliens will intercede when we are on the brink of self destruction. I think they will ultimately be our saviours, like tbey were with the Egyptians.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

What I find interesting is that in Lazar's explanation of the propulsion mechanism of the craft in 1988 or 1989 included a description of an exotic material - Element 115, that was used in the propulsion system of the UFO he examined. He also described in that propulsion system, gravity as a wave that can be manipulated. Both of these ideas were fairly unknown concepts at the time.

Later in 2003 - Element 115 UnUnPentium or UUP is synthesized for the first time by a joint team of Russian and American scientists at the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research (JINR) in Dubna, Russia.

And.. later in September 2015, the first observation of gravitational waves was made and was announced by the LIGO and Virgo collaborations on 11 February 2016. "Previously gravitational waves had only been inferred indirectly, via their effect on the timing of pulsars in binary star systems." - link (Not sure I am understanding this correctly in relation to Lazar's testimony though..)

I think these two points give more credibility to Lazar's testimony.

Also his story has not changed in all these years.


Original excerpt from Lazar in element 115:
"115 is strictly an extraterrestrial material. It probably occurs naturally in some other places, maybe other star systems. Some people not familiar with science or chemistry, say that's ridiculous, all of the elements occur on Earth, but that's not true, there are several elements in the periodic chart that aren't found on Earth. I believe the heavy ion research lab in Darmstart, Germany, has reached element 112 recently, so 115 isn't that far away, and when they synthesize it, it's not like they're making a couple of ounces of it, they're talking about one or two atoms of it, to make any usable amount of a heavy element like is virtually impossible."

Ununpentium: Scientists Confirm Existence of Element 115

a reply to: abe froman

well think about this.

all the studies into inertial/mass reduction all center around superconductors. see Martin tajmar, or ning li, or Eugene podkletnov.

mercury was the first material they discovered the phenomenon of superconduction with. when they supercooled it in 1911.

Ernst mach proposed that inertia is caused by a body of mass interacting with the rest of the mass in the universe with what's known in physics as Machs Principle.

a few years later machs principle was hugely influential on Einstein when he wrote his first relativity papers in 1905.

relativity had lots of interesting things to say about reference frames (central to machs principle) the speed of light being constant regardless of reference frames, mass and energy....and inertia.

come 30 years later Germans are working with a superconducting fluid and spurred by the recent advances and breakthroughs in physics in experiments we often see nowadays for forays into studying mass/inertial reduction. Der Glocke?

immediately after ww2. the Americans jump all over German experiments, engineers and scientists bringing them over to the usa and giving them carte Blanche to work their projects in physics and aerospace. shortly after ufo waves begin to happen all over the usa. coincidental?

if you had less inertia would you be able to accelerate like a bullet from a stand still? make 90 degree turns with no G forces? appear to defy gravity and hover being suddenly more buoyant?

if one had broken the chains of machs conjectures on inertia and were relaying no usable information regarding their frame of reference to the rest of the universe would it function like a hack to decouple from said universe? would it matter how fast you accelerated or were travelling up until the speed if light if the universe didnt know about it?

so what if a rotating superconductor was a central componant to making a rig that could cloak your vehicles frame of reference to the outside world? what if the shape of the superconductor it's self plays an important role?

long story short. no. mercury will not create anti gravity. it does make a superconductor though. and nowadays we have much better superconductors than mercury.

another thing weren't the Germans rapidly switching electrically on and off their Der Glocke. what happens to an electric field when it's suddenly shut off. what does it generate?

I dunno mysteries of the nuts n bolts ufo universe.

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
I like to think that aliens will intercede when we are on the brink of self destruction. I think they will ultimately be our saviours, like tbey were with the Egyptians.

interesting thoughts but keep in mind the topic is the nuts n bolts of the ufo. it's a technical discussion onto how they work, what they are and where they come from. not so much if aliens will rescue humans from our own foibles.

a reply to: nOraKat

interesting about Lazars story. what if his reactor is a possibility? what if there was a break through in gamma ray production? what if when combined with super efficient quantum solar cells like Klimov has developed at los Alamos nanospectroscopy department you could feasibly make such a potent little reactor?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Sorry I didn't mean to be off topic

a reply to: Ghostsinthefog

all good! no need to apologize. all are welcome here in this thread. plus you get a star for participating in this thread! look under your seat! every one gets a star!!! we be talking about the physical reality of ufos!

so any thoughts on them. like why they appear as they do. why they have weird effects on radios and cars. stopping electronics only to have them start again after they're gone. weird cases? strange looking ufos. boring looking ufos. etc.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

What if ?

I think its been done.

According to Ben Rich of Lockheed Skunkworls - "We have the technology to take ET home."

I suspect propulsion systems used locally on Earth or for short travel, like to the moon, and maybe even neighboring planets is a completely different 'propulsion' or travel technology for interstellar or intergalactic travel.