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Dangerous students: Who do you call?
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Question for the teachers: Who do you call to report a troubled youth who is a danger to his classmates?
I am not a teacher. I currently know of two kids that fit the description of a troubled youth who is a potential danger to his classmates.
These kids live in different towns, different school districts attend different schools and come from different families. Younger one is currently in 3rd grade. His issues started early. Kicked out of mutiple daycares and pre-schools for fighting and anger issues. Has had issues with fighting, anger management and behavior in public school - well known to all the teachers in his current school. Older kid is a teenager. Currently on his 4th or 5th school. Kicked out of each school for anger issues and fighting. Both kids spend a significant amount of their free time playing violent video games.
My point is - just like the two kids I described above - the teachers at Parkland High had already internally flagged the shooter as a “troubled” kid. It didn’t sound like anyone was surprised to learn the identity of the school shooter. The high school had proactively warned the security staff, banned the kid from campus, conducted drills to protect the students. The kid was a known to the school and had been established as a threat. Currently the only mechanism schools seem to utilize to deal with this issue while a student is still enrolled is expulsion; however, that just moves the problem to a different school (if the student even bothers to re-enroll elsewhere).
So in this type of situation...when everyone knows there is a troubled and dangerous kid - who do you call? How do you the warn state and federal authorities?
When I heard that there was another school shooting I was actually relieved that the shooter wasn’t one of the two kids I described above. In the back of my mind I am worried that it is just a matter of time. I can only imagine how their teachers feel - they must be thinking the same thing.
I am not a teacher. I currently know of two kids that fit the description of a troubled youth who is a potential danger to his classmates.
These kids live in different towns, different school districts attend different schools and come from different families. Younger one is currently in 3rd grade. His issues started early. Kicked out of mutiple daycares and pre-schools for fighting and anger issues. Has had issues with fighting, anger management and behavior in public school - well known to all the teachers in his current school. Older kid is a teenager. Currently on his 4th or 5th school. Kicked out of each school for anger issues and fighting. Both kids spend a significant amount of their free time playing violent video games.
My point is - just like the two kids I described above - the teachers at Parkland High had already internally flagged the shooter as a “troubled” kid. It didn’t sound like anyone was surprised to learn the identity of the school shooter. The high school had proactively warned the security staff, banned the kid from campus, conducted drills to protect the students. The kid was a known to the school and had been established as a threat. Currently the only mechanism schools seem to utilize to deal with this issue while a student is still enrolled is expulsion; however, that just moves the problem to a different school (if the student even bothers to re-enroll elsewhere).
So in this type of situation...when everyone knows there is a troubled and dangerous kid - who do you call? How do you the warn state and federal authorities?
When I heard that there was another school shooting I was actually relieved that the shooter wasn’t one of the two kids I described above. In the back of my mind I am worried that it is just a matter of time. I can only imagine how their teachers feel - they must be thinking the same thing.
a reply to: network dude
Sounds like these two are dangerous in the sense they are bullies and pick fights. The teachers must have been doing something since they got kicked out of school a few times. Neither of those fit the profile of a mass shooter though. The kids that would give me a bad feeling are the loners. The ones that don't interact and have a dire look on their face all the time. If I was a teacher, I'd check out their social media first and ask other kids about them. I know that's profiling but I'd hate it if I had a suspicion and the worst happened without doing something.
Sounds like these two are dangerous in the sense they are bullies and pick fights. The teachers must have been doing something since they got kicked out of school a few times. Neither of those fit the profile of a mass shooter though. The kids that would give me a bad feeling are the loners. The ones that don't interact and have a dire look on their face all the time. If I was a teacher, I'd check out their social media first and ask other kids about them. I know that's profiling but I'd hate it if I had a suspicion and the worst happened without doing something.
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti
I feel like the kids who act like this have something wrong in their lives already, and maybe talking to them when it's noticed, might let them find a way to fix it, or at least identify it. maybe just talking to them and listening to them might do some good. it sure can't hurt.
I feel like the kids who act like this have something wrong in their lives already, and maybe talking to them when it's noticed, might let them find a way to fix it, or at least identify it. maybe just talking to them and listening to them might do some good. it sure can't hurt.
originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti
I feel like the kids who act like this have something wrong in their lives already, and maybe talking to them when it's noticed, might let them find a way to fix it, or at least identify it. maybe just talking to them and listening to them might do some good. it sure can't hurt.
I agree. But the teachers shouldn't have that responsibility. They should identify such kids and let a psychologist take over. I think it would be asking too much of someone who isn't trained in "talking". For example, I'd probably get annoyed at some point and tell the kid to get his act together. That would be the wrong approach I'm sure.
a reply to: Buvvy
I know during my time as a teacher, we were to report troubled teens to our administrator (our principal). Our school district made it clear they didn't want teachers to by-pass their protocols. They would then "supposedly" contact the proper authorities. If we had an event where the news media would show-up, they made it clear before hand that faculty were not allowed to comment on the event and to leave any comments and interviews up to school officials. It's a protocol system they also use in private businesses.
Unfortunately, many of these teens had anger problems due to being molested as a child, dysfunctional families, mental illness, or being influenced by street gang mentality. Teachers usually found these problem teenagers right back into the classroom instead of them receiving the proper counselling for their behavior and mental problems.
What's bad about this, is many times the administrators would back down from angry parents who were trying to protect their kids. Feeling their son or daughter was being singled out by a teacher. (Teachers are under enough stress in the classroom. The last thing they want to do is create a confrontation and a continued conflict with a student). It was well known among teachers in my district that administrators seldom backed-up teacher's complaints of a student's disrespectful, disruptive and at times alarming behavior. Many times they put the fault and blame on the teacher even though some of the same disturbing behavior was being reported by other teachers. It's exactly why bullying is so wide spread in schools. School officials avoid addressing and creating a strict system that make these teenagers accountable for their actions.
If I were you, I would first report this to your local authorities and ask them to provide you with contacts at the State and Federal level. I would think now more than ever, due to the FBI dropping the ball on the most recent school shooting, they would most likely make your complaint a priority. I doubt the FBI will make the same mistake that prevented them from protecting the deaths of so many students and teachers. I applaud your concerns and hope more parents like you school officials start raising red flags to help stop this disturbing epidemic of school shootings.
I know during my time as a teacher, we were to report troubled teens to our administrator (our principal). Our school district made it clear they didn't want teachers to by-pass their protocols. They would then "supposedly" contact the proper authorities. If we had an event where the news media would show-up, they made it clear before hand that faculty were not allowed to comment on the event and to leave any comments and interviews up to school officials. It's a protocol system they also use in private businesses.
Unfortunately, many of these teens had anger problems due to being molested as a child, dysfunctional families, mental illness, or being influenced by street gang mentality. Teachers usually found these problem teenagers right back into the classroom instead of them receiving the proper counselling for their behavior and mental problems.
What's bad about this, is many times the administrators would back down from angry parents who were trying to protect their kids. Feeling their son or daughter was being singled out by a teacher. (Teachers are under enough stress in the classroom. The last thing they want to do is create a confrontation and a continued conflict with a student). It was well known among teachers in my district that administrators seldom backed-up teacher's complaints of a student's disrespectful, disruptive and at times alarming behavior. Many times they put the fault and blame on the teacher even though some of the same disturbing behavior was being reported by other teachers. It's exactly why bullying is so wide spread in schools. School officials avoid addressing and creating a strict system that make these teenagers accountable for their actions.
If I were you, I would first report this to your local authorities and ask them to provide you with contacts at the State and Federal level. I would think now more than ever, due to the FBI dropping the ball on the most recent school shooting, they would most likely make your complaint a priority. I doubt the FBI will make the same mistake that prevented them from protecting the deaths of so many students and teachers. I applaud your concerns and hope more parents like you school officials start raising red flags to help stop this disturbing epidemic of school shootings.
a reply to: Buvvy
First of all, don't give into the fear and hype that 'troubled kids' are going to be the one in a million that go off and kill.
Many killers incubate for a long time, despite efforts to de escalate their brooding. In fact the more you focus on some the angrier they get.
You could lock them up for the crime of 'potential' but eventually you have to let them out. Now they will be 'institutionalized' and angrier than ever.
There is no fix for this other than changing the entire path this nation is on. Stop endless war, eternal debt, conditioning to violence thru TV, film and video games. Above all teach parents to love their kids, turn off the screens, and go outside.
Without love, peace and hope for the future, they got nothing to look forward to and will come a killing as soon as they 'hatch'.
First of all, don't give into the fear and hype that 'troubled kids' are going to be the one in a million that go off and kill.
Many killers incubate for a long time, despite efforts to de escalate their brooding. In fact the more you focus on some the angrier they get.
You could lock them up for the crime of 'potential' but eventually you have to let them out. Now they will be 'institutionalized' and angrier than ever.
There is no fix for this other than changing the entire path this nation is on. Stop endless war, eternal debt, conditioning to violence thru TV, film and video games. Above all teach parents to love their kids, turn off the screens, and go outside.
Without love, peace and hope for the future, they got nothing to look forward to and will come a killing as soon as they 'hatch'.
I don't have any info on who to call..but I want to say that I think THIS is a HUGE problem with the schools everywhere.
My husband works for the govt. every few years we have to move to a new area. This is the 3rd school my girls 10/12 have been in. My girls are very well behaved, have honors at school, and are never in trouble with friends or teachers. The problems we see at each school are the same. 1/2 of the kids in their classes are pure trouble makers..lousy kids that make trouble, cause class disruption for teachers and other students that are there to learn. I just went to a parent teacher conf. the other night and each teacher I talked to basically had the same thing to say..their hands are tied. They can only give out 'pink slip' after 3 pinks the kid sees guidance counselor..big eye roll. They guidance talks to them sends them back to class and then it starts all over. Im tired of the lowest common denominator taking up space...I know this will get me flamed..but I DO NOT CARE. I DO realize they are children..but honestly..there is no help for them in public ed. I see the same thing, different schools, different states, all the same. Our education system is going to have to have an overhaul to handle and control these kids..we need to separate at a younger age and allow the stronger learners to move forward..the other children need specialized teachers that know how to handle the mounting problems they have in their lives...maybe they need to do something like this..
students that show academic promise should move forward in studies. They would be eligible for middle school, HS, UNI.
students that cause trouble or that basically find education to be a waste should move on through some sort of vocation program..where they are taught skills of trade.
severe cases should be allowed only to complete elementary and then move forward to ROTC or military type training.
If the parents do not like these choices then they can home school their children or find private facilities that can handle these kids.
My daughter (6th grade) comes home daily with of how out of control the classes have become. Her math class and Spanish class are basically a wash because the teacher spends the majority of time trying to calm, chatting, paper throwing..phone usage, fighting, and joking around..by a handful of students in the class. The teacher told me the other night that the kids that are like this are already in all of the 'special' help programs and that other than expelling them there isn't anything else the school can do. It shouldn't be this way.
My husband works for the govt. every few years we have to move to a new area. This is the 3rd school my girls 10/12 have been in. My girls are very well behaved, have honors at school, and are never in trouble with friends or teachers. The problems we see at each school are the same. 1/2 of the kids in their classes are pure trouble makers..lousy kids that make trouble, cause class disruption for teachers and other students that are there to learn. I just went to a parent teacher conf. the other night and each teacher I talked to basically had the same thing to say..their hands are tied. They can only give out 'pink slip' after 3 pinks the kid sees guidance counselor..big eye roll. They guidance talks to them sends them back to class and then it starts all over. Im tired of the lowest common denominator taking up space...I know this will get me flamed..but I DO NOT CARE. I DO realize they are children..but honestly..there is no help for them in public ed. I see the same thing, different schools, different states, all the same. Our education system is going to have to have an overhaul to handle and control these kids..we need to separate at a younger age and allow the stronger learners to move forward..the other children need specialized teachers that know how to handle the mounting problems they have in their lives...maybe they need to do something like this..
students that show academic promise should move forward in studies. They would be eligible for middle school, HS, UNI.
students that cause trouble or that basically find education to be a waste should move on through some sort of vocation program..where they are taught skills of trade.
severe cases should be allowed only to complete elementary and then move forward to ROTC or military type training.
If the parents do not like these choices then they can home school their children or find private facilities that can handle these kids.
My daughter (6th grade) comes home daily with of how out of control the classes have become. Her math class and Spanish class are basically a wash because the teacher spends the majority of time trying to calm, chatting, paper throwing..phone usage, fighting, and joking around..by a handful of students in the class. The teacher told me the other night that the kids that are like this are already in all of the 'special' help programs and that other than expelling them there isn't anything else the school can do. It shouldn't be this way.
originally posted by: Buvvy
So in this type of situation...when everyone knows there is a troubled and dangerous kid - who do you call? How do you the warn state and federal authorities?
High likelyhood they will grow out of it. You aren't talking about a 17 year old loner who is torturing animals...you are discussing disruptive kids. They probably got a rough home life.
Either way, you didn't list any of the common traits of shooters in the past. Yeah, they may grow up to be dicks if they don't grow out of their bully stage, but the violent rampaging killers aren't bullys, they are often the bullied.
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Buvvy
Way to invalidate your entire post and point by trying to bring computer games into the debate. Stop this nonsense at once, and have approach this topic from an honest place.
Normies don't know. its been parroted by media. I just wish it would turn to something else for awhile, like wearing makeup = super violent.
I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if its just john q citizen raising concerns..now, a politician or influential media presenter..break out the torches.
Anyhow, most violent video games have a rating for 18+
If children are playing these games, that means the parents aren't paying attention, and kids need parental guidance during those young years. They need to limit their gaming and show them the wonders of building a tree house or something.
In my opinion, no one should be called. Just segregate the troublemakers from the loners and the kid who are there to learn. Segregate recess, lunch
and class start/end times and make sure the trouble makers NEVER see the loners. For the loners, put them in the best behaved classes and try to get
them involved in team building activities (not sports), excluding loners will not help.
Some people externalize the hurt and others internalize it, they can not be treated the same.
Some people externalize the hurt and others internalize it, they can not be treated the same.
originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Buvvy
I can tell you who NOT to call.. this Scott Peterson guy...
I didn't want to star that comment, but dammit, it's one of the first thoughts that entered my head.
The FBI would be a close second.
As for the OP, there's not much that can be done, unfortunately. I think that notifying authorities right now might yield some sort of investigation, but without a ton of highly illegal activities, there's not much that they can do, but the atmosphere is primed for reporting perceived troubled kids. At the very least, maybe a court could order interactions with a therapist or a psych eval, but that's even a stretch, IMO, that it could and would be done.
What you do is call parent student meetings and explain the situation to them.
From there take measures to ensure they don't end up with a mass shooting.
Student watch groups.
Rent a cops on the premise.
That's it.
Maybe higher a school shrink to evaluate at risk students.
Anything beyond that?
Stay out of local and state issues.
From there take measures to ensure they don't end up with a mass shooting.
Student watch groups.
Rent a cops on the premise.
That's it.
Maybe higher a school shrink to evaluate at risk students.
Anything beyond that?
Stay out of local and state issues.
a reply to: WeRpeons
Based on this article a woman tried warning both state and federal authorities about the Florida shooter and it didn’t do any good.
www.aol.com... 69755/
Based on this article a woman tried warning both state and federal authorities about the Florida shooter and it didn’t do any good.
www.aol.com... 69755/
a reply to: TrueBrit
First, if you do not care to participate in the discussion that is fine. I will discuss whatever I feel is relevant to this topic.
I posed a very serious question. I asked because I am concerned (more so about the older child than the younger one). There are some elements about this kid that I’m deliberately not sharing. This is beyond a bullying issue or just fighting. The child may also have an undiagnosed neurological or mental health issue - significant impulse control problems.
My point is that even with the Principal being aware and the teachers being aware - what else needs to be done?
The woman in this article tried to do it - she tried reporting the Florida kid to state authorities and the FBI and it went nowhere. www.aol.com... 69755/
First, if you do not care to participate in the discussion that is fine. I will discuss whatever I feel is relevant to this topic.
I posed a very serious question. I asked because I am concerned (more so about the older child than the younger one). There are some elements about this kid that I’m deliberately not sharing. This is beyond a bullying issue or just fighting. The child may also have an undiagnosed neurological or mental health issue - significant impulse control problems.
My point is that even with the Principal being aware and the teachers being aware - what else needs to be done?
The woman in this article tried to do it - she tried reporting the Florida kid to state authorities and the FBI and it went nowhere. www.aol.com... 69755/
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