Blacks And Latinos Denied Mortgages At Rates Double Whites

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

How many does ANY poor person? Trailer parks are different? Hill people are different how?

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

So you were born without voting rights and the right to bear arms? We're you born In prison? Personally I don't have kids because I can't provide the life I'd like to for them. I hate it and although it would give me reason to put up with the ship I do, but that's my burden, it's a conscious decision.

Let's just agree to disagree - I've had this conversation too many times and It's always a waste of time.

This quote shows perception trumps reality

I'd actually argue that the kid from the projects has more opportunities handed to them than the kid in the suburbs does. For the projects kid, everything is provided for them at the expense of the tax payer and philanthropic groups. Extra tutoring in school, increased school funds for various learning enhancement programs, scholarships and grants that are solely qualified for on the basis of race, minority status, and income level, inner city job training programs, etc.

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

That's fine, but he how many times in that neighborhood was somebody hated on for trying to better their situation? How many were called sellouts? There is a huge problem in those neighborhoods of degrading people trying to do the right thing. I mean I get it you see somebody working their whole life broken down and that haven't gotten anywhere, and you see a dealer down the street who seemingly has everything (atleast for that moment) and they didn't have to kill themselves to do it (yet). Hard to pass that up, but people gotta understand quick money leaves as fast as it comes in and it had the added effect of breaking down society.

If you continually look at the world through the lens of race, these are the kind of patterns you'll see. The problem is, more often than not you'll be wrong in your assumption that these patterns are the results of skin-colors, and not other factors.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: pavil
Link

Disparities were exceptionally pronounced in 61 cities across the nation, including three in North Carolina. That was true even when controlling for applicants' income, loan amount and neighborhood. The findings come after a year-long study of millions of Home Mortgage Disclosure Act records analyzed by WUNC, The Center for Investigative Reporting's Reveal Show, and the Associated Press.

So I'm listening to NPR and they are talking about this, specifically how the Community Reinvestment Act has been a joke for Decades, not really allowing residents, mainly Black and Hispanic to get loans in the areas the CRA was designed to help.

Pretty messed up, especially since 99.9% of banks get a satisfactory record with the CRA.

Even when you factor in apples to apples comparison, there is a racially backed component to the results.

Complete and utter bovine feces...

I work in mortgages and have for the pass 15 years. There is ZERO, ZIP, NADA, racial discrimination in mortgages. Blacks on average have lower FICO scores and fewer assets which is why, not that there is any actual discrimination occurring.

Here is a good mortgage industry video/blog debunking the OP that explains how any disparate impact that actually occurs is because of Fannie policies that ALL banks have to follow when it comes to getting a conventional mortgage.

Did you miss this part?

In an April policy paper, the American Bankers Association said reporting credit scores would be expensive and "cloud any focus" the disclosure law has in identifying discrimination. America's largest bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co., has argued that the data should remain closed off even to academics, citing privacy concerns.

At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.

Watch the video. I am black. I've also originated about $500 million in mortgage loans in my career.

First, practically all mortgages are run through an automated underwriting system from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae (i.e., a computer). It looks at debt ratios, assets, credit scores, property type, etc and then makes a lending decision. The bank underwriters literally just check to make sure the documentation is correct - paystubs, bank statements, etc and look for any potential fraud.

It is true that blacks on average have higher rates and receive more denials but that is because blacks on average have lower FICO scores. Blacks with 700+ FICO score, low debt ratios, and down payments get the same great rates as everyone else.

Understand that statistical data showing one group on average having less favorable terms is not an indicator of discrimination.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

That's fine, but he how many times in that neighborhood was somebody hated on for trying to better their situation? How many were called sellouts? There is a huge problem in those neighborhoods of degrading people trying to do the right thing. I mean I get it you see somebody working their whole life broken down and that haven't gotten anywhere, and you see a dealer down the street who seemingly has everything (atleast for that moment) and they didn't have to kill themselves to do it (yet). Hard to pass that up, but people gotta understand quick money leaves as fast as it comes in and it had the added effect of breaking down society.

I have never once in my life been ostracized - literally. I hear this so much but I have never experienced it.
I grew up in the hood, I pulled myself out of the situation (my stepdad made damned sure I would - I hated him as a kid).

I still go home from time to time, I've never been called a 'sellout' or 'uncle tom'?
I have been told "You made it out".

I wonder were this stereotype comes from? It's guaranteed to present itself in this type of discussion and I know anecdotal evidence is meaningless.

Change... #, I guess change is good for any of us. Whatever it takes for any of ya'll niggas to get up out tha hood. #, I'm with ya. I ain't mad at cha got nothin' but love for ya do your thing boy. Yeah, All the homies that I ain't talked to in while. I'm a send this out to y'all know what I mean ? Cuz, I ain't mad at cha

2pac

The truth is viewed as an accomplishment to make it out. It damned well is too.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

THIS is the real question to be asking. What are the underlying causes of economic disparity and social breakdown within certain inner cities?

a reply to: Edumakated

Let me quote this for you again:

In an April policy paper, the American Bankers Association said reporting credit scores would be expensive and "cloud any focus" the disclosure law has in identifying discrimination. America's largest bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co., has argued that the data should remain closed off even to academics, citing privacy concerns.

At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.

Why?

You can buy a house with as little as 3% down. In fact, in some cities, you can buy a house with a minimum of $1,000 down with grant programs where the city will literally give you a forgiveable loan to cover down payment and closing costs.

The two most common reasons I see that prevent people from being able to buy a home is credit and income. With credit, some people simply do not pay bills on time. Ever.

In regards to income, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people with half their paycheck pissed away on a fancy car. They try to buy a home and they can't because they are paying $1,000/mo for some Dodge Charger on 22s and they only make like $35k/yr.

Look, everyone cannot be a homeowner. It is expensive owning a home. A big issue with lending to people with less than stellar credit is that they are always a broken furnace away from a foreclosure. They don't have the cushion or assets to weather downturns.

a reply to: pavil

Me and my wife always joke about how fd the system is . When we were in high school (long long ago in a far away galaxy) I had a steady job with proven income and my wife didn't. We both applied for the same credit card I got like a 250 credit limit she got like a 3K credit limit.

I was like WTF , it makes no sense. Neither one of us had any credit dings and were pretty comparable to each other. the only difference was me actually having a job but getting less of a credit limit. The other difference besides her being female was she is white while I'm hispanic with a hispanic last name.
throughout the years despite me making more money , she typically had the better credit limit .

Was on the line of the bigger culprit being race , sex, or both?



-

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

I've actually seen and heard it with my own eyes and ears, it really only came up when it was a heated arguement but it does happen. I've heard the term acting white plenty of times.

So if you came up in a stable home due to your stepfathers will to help you succeed, how did what bigfurrytexan said apply to you?

One other curiosity would you ever go back and start a business in your old hood? Why, why not?

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
a reply to: Edumakated

Let me quote this for you again:

In an April policy paper, the American Bankers Association said reporting credit scores would be expensive and "cloud any focus" the disclosure law has in identifying discrimination. America's largest bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co., has argued that the data should remain closed off even to academics, citing privacy concerns.

At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.

Why?

That quote is referring to HMDA, which is a regulation that requires banks report info on mortgage applicants. The law is very specific as to what is reported. Credit is not one of them. The ABA is pushing back because 1) the cost associated with complying outweigh and benefit and 2) they know how the political system uses the data to shake down banks.

The information is readily available though. As I noted, 90% of mortgage loans are run through Fannie Mae's Desktop Underwriter or Freddie Mac's Loan Prospector automated underwriting systems. They have every piece of data on every single home loan made.

Regarding credit scoring models having a discriminatory impact. They only do in terms of behaviors that may be more common among minorities. For example, if minorities are more likely to carry credit cards maxed out which hurts your score, it doesn't mean the bureaus are discriminating.

Ironically, credit scoring is used because it is completely objective and takes away any human or interpersonal analyses of an individual borrower. Banks like this because it keeps the SJW from claiming they are discriminating. If banks evaluating an individual using intangible criteria then the SJWs would claim they are discriminating.

After the war in the 50’s blacks were totally excluded from the inexpensive houses the government were financing, in communities like Levittown LI, where a whole generation of people were left behind economically through this blatant and “legal” discrimination.


Many people who now own houses worth half a million dollars from this era do not realize this happened.

The government helped ONLY WHIITE PEOPLE buy these very cheap houses, that are today maybe worth half a million, and totally excluded black people from this program


Today that’s why many communities in America are still segregated



They wonder why black people are behind economically.


This is a horrible example of what is still happening.

source

The GI Bill (1944)[edit] At the end of World War II, the GI Bill furthered segregation practices by keeping African Americans out of European American neighborhoods, showing another side to African American housing discrimination. When millions of GIs returned home from overseas, they took advantage of the “Servicemen’s Readjustment Act,” or the GI Bill.[19] This important document was signed in 1944 by Franklin D. Roosevelt, and gave veterans education and training opportunities, guaranteed loans for home, farm, or business, job finding assistance, and unemployment pay of $20 a week for up to 52 weeks if a veteran could not find a job.[20] This law allowed millions of U.S. soldiers to purchase their first homes with inexpensive mortgages, which meant the huge growth of suburbs and the birth of the ideal of a suburban lifestyle. African Americans were met with discrimination when trying to purchase a home in the overwhelmingly European American neighborhoods. The realtors would not show these houses to African Americans, and when they did, they would try and talk them out of buying the home. This discrimination was based on the fact that realtors believed they would be losing future business by dealing or listing with African Americans, and that it would be unethical to sell a house in a European American neighborhood to African Americans because it would drive the property values of the surrounding houses down.[21] Both redlining and discrimination through the GI Bill relegated most African Americans to a concentrated area within the city, so the declining property values and the higher crime rates could be kept in a contained area. The relegation of African Americans to the neighborhoods that were receiving no support due to redlining practices was a self-fulfilling prophecy that created the high crime slums that the city was afraid of.[6]

originally posted by: Willtell
After the war in the 50’s blacks were totally excluded from the inexpensive houses the government were financing, in communities like Levittown LI, where a whole generation of people were left behind economically through this blatant and “legal” discrimination.


Many people who now own houses worth half a million dollars from this era do not realize this happened.

The government helped ONLY WHIITE PEOPLE buy these very cheap houses, that are today maybe worth half a million, and totally excluded black people from this program


Today that’s why many communities in America are still segregated



They wonder why black people are behind economically.


This is a horrible example of what is still happening.

source

The GI Bill (1944)[edit] At the end of World War II, the GI Bill furthered segregation practices by keeping African Americans out of European American neighborhoods, showing another side to African American housing discrimination. When millions of GIs returned home from overseas, they took advantage of the “Servicemen’s Readjustment Act,” or the GI Bill.[19] This important document was signed in 1944 by Franklin D. Roosevelt, and gave veterans education and training opportunities, guaranteed loans for home, farm, or business, job finding assistance, and unemployment pay of $20 a week for up to 52 weeks if a veteran could not find a job.[20] This law allowed millions of U.S. soldiers to purchase their first homes with inexpensive mortgages, which meant the huge growth of suburbs and the birth of the ideal of a suburban lifestyle. African Americans were met with discrimination when trying to purchase a home in the overwhelmingly European American neighborhoods. The realtors would not show these houses to African Americans, and when they did, they would try and talk them out of buying the home. This discrimination was based on the fact that realtors believed they would be losing future business by dealing or listing with African Americans, and that it would be unethical to sell a house in a European American neighborhood to African Americans because it would drive the property values of the surrounding houses down.[21] Both redlining and discrimination through the GI Bill relegated most African Americans to a concentrated area within the city, so the declining property values and the higher crime rates could be kept in a contained area. The relegation of African Americans to the neighborhoods that were receiving no support due to redlining practices was a self-fulfilling prophecy that created the high crime slums that the city was afraid of.[6]

Partially agree. Yes, prior discrimination really set the black community back in terms of family wealth building. However, I think that has little to do with current fiscal state of black community.

The black community in America spends like a $1.5 trillion a year. We have no problem buying jewelry, cars, rims, and expensive clothes... but black folks don't want to buy stocks or houses. It isn't discrimination but financial ignorance at this point.

a reply to: TheLead



Are you telling me that the wealth distribution among the lower 99% isn't heavily in favor of white people? I mean, i lived in a ratty trailer park for awhile as a kid. Im aware that there are poor people everywhere of all types (i've gone on about the evil of reconstruction and what it did to the southern people, especially black people).

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Are you telling me that paying bills is something that can easily happen when half your household earning potential is put in prison?

If you listen long enough for somebody complain about a problem, they'll usually tell you the reason why they're responsible for those problems.

www.theatlantic.com...

In August, Science published a landmark study concluding that poverty, itself, hurts our ability to make decisions about school, finances, and life, imposing a mental burden similar to losing 13 IQ points.

I make a lot of poor financial decisions. None of them matter, in the long term. I will never not be poor, so what does it matter if I don’t pay a thing and a half this week instead of just one thing? It’s not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn’t that I blow five bucks at Wendy’s. It’s that now that I have proven that I am a Poor Person that is all that I am or ever will be. It is not worth it to me to live a bleak life devoid of small pleasures so that one day I can make a single large purchase. I will never have large pleasures to hold on to. There’s a certain pull to live what bits of life you can while there’s money in your pocket, because no matter how responsible you are you will be broke in three days anyway. When you never have enough money it ceases to have meaning. I imagine having a lot of it is the same thing.

Poverty is bleak and cuts off your long-term brain. It’s why you see people with four different babydaddies instead of one. You grab a bit of connection wherever you can to survive. You have no idea how strong the pull to feel worthwhile is. It’s more basic than food. You go to these people who make you feel lovely for an hour that one time, and that’s all you get. You’re probably not compatible with them for anything long-term, but right this minute they can make you feel powerful and valuable. It does not matter what will happen in a month. Whatever happens in a month is probably going to be just about as indifferent as whatever happened today or last week. None of it matters. We don’t plan long-term because if we do we’ll just get our hearts broken. It’s best not to hope. You just take what you can get as you spot it.

I have to admit the first time i read the above i sobbed. I remember feeling that way, thinking that way. It took me the better part of 2 decades to work my way into the man i am today....and it was hard work. I had the benefit of good people along the way giving me a push, giving me a chance when I really hadn't earned one yet.

It would have remained hopeless had something not happened to me along the way. Something that changed my hope. It wasn't something I earned, it was an opportunity that i stumbled on at a time when I was mentally ready to take advantage of it. Were it not the right time to have said opportunity, my fate would have been much, much, much different than the bigfatfurrytexan you know today.

And Coincidentally, a list of the Worlds Richest "Black" Billionaires appeared on Social Media.

Interesting how being "Black", is always associated with Africans....Whether they live in North America or England or wherever.....

au.finance.yahoo.com...

Perhaps they can help their fellow "Blacks" with a little cash??

Or Black Panther will get yuz....!!

The big question is...why? Why such a huge difference in loan acceptance between different races?

Racism? Maybe.
I think there are multiple factors to consider. Income and credit come to mind.

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
The big question is...why? Why such a huge difference in loan acceptance between different races?

Racism? Maybe.
I think there are multiple factors to consider. Income and credit come to mind.

The institutions are not racist.

But for whatever reason (i posted a couple of links above that may help), the income disparity between black and white folks is pretty stark. That lack of income is what drives a lack of access to credit (as well as the bad decision making)

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Were it not the right time to have said opportunity, my fate would have been much, much, much different than the bigfatfurrytexan you know today.

I think that transcends race or sex or cultural background. So much of life depends on an individual being in the right place at the right time and being ready for it.