The Vela Incident: Who Nuked the South Atlantic in 1979?

a reply to: mirageman

Why would they need their own nuclear weapons when they have so much power over the u.s. and NATO countries?

a reply to: Blaine91555

There's a whole bunch of released intelligence documents here. However there are also a lot of documents that have still not been released too. Which of course leaves everything unresolved and suggests that there is something still to hide.

Here is a CBS news feature from 1981 on the Vela incident that implicates South Africa and Israel based on intelligence sources.



The specific section of that news report is currently available on Youtube.



But there is no definite proof of an Israeli/South African connection to my knowledge that has been made public. So it remains a theory and nothing more at present.

originally posted by: WhyDidIJoin
a reply to: mirageman

Why would they need their own nuclear weapons when they have so much power over the u.s. and NATO countries?

Because Israel is surrounded by hostile Arab nations and Apartheid South Africa was a pariah state in Africa. Possessing a nuclear weapon would strengthen their hand without having to rely on outside assistance.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Tunguska was Tesla showing the power Elite that his technology could be used as a weapon, in order to get funding AFTER JP Morgan pulled the plug on him. Read up on Joseph Farrell's work the guy is an absolute genius when it comes to alternative research and connecting dots.

a reply to: mirageman

why?
its an bizzare explanation, but why would some nation explode an nuke in the ocean quite near populated territory without major panic?
sounds like someone else did it and it was an accident...

a reply to: humanoidlord


If you don't understand why South Africa, Israel or any other nation might test a nuke above the ocean. Or that this occurred nowhere near to any populated territory then you need to learn a lot about recent history that is beyond the scope of this forum.

a reply to: mirageman

Or that this occurred nowhere near to any populated

the opposite, it happened not too far from populated territory and that is weird

a reply to: humanoidlord

What populated territory do you think this happened near to?

Other than perhaps making the penguins warmer on the Prince Edward Islands this was not near a population centre, The CIA "concluded that a low-yield 2 to 4 kiloton nuclear device had probably been detonated over the Southern Atlantic Ocean between South Africa and Antarctica".

The yield of the Hiroshima Bomb in WWII was around 15 kilotons. Around 4 to 7 times higher than this event.

a reply to: mirageman

It makes sense for South Africa to be involved.

The low yield is something that fits with Israeli Nuclear weapons.

The Vela satellite was a cold war era spy satellite right? It was repurposed since it was still functional?

Great subject. S&F

a reply to: mirageman

OK so there criteria is that the second peak has to last longer and have 99% of the energy of the first?

OK. Well whatever, if there saying that they never saw something like that in nature, who am I to judge. I mean maybe they didn't for all I know. So there saying that there may have been a mushroom cloud, but they dont know if it was a mushroom cloud? That is strange indeed.

a reply to: mirageman

You make more sense than you know! In early Jan. 1943, someone, "us?", detonated a Nuke right at thirty miles due East of Cape May, N.J. I followed the Nostradamus prophecy of the new scourge, first near the Harbor, and then in two Cities. On top of that my dad was in a truckload of G.I.'s who stumbled into the aftermath, along the Jersey Coast. They triangulated the blast at thirty miles out to sea.

I had a staff dowser in London for the British Soc. of Dowsers, check this out, and he got 5 Kt. I dismissed this as being too small, until I read Bill O' Reilly's "Killing Japan", non fiction book. He goes pretty deep into Alamogordo's Trinity Test, and now 5 Kilo Tons seems about right. Dad and his buddies would argue over this when they were alone, in Europe, until Pres. Truman announced the Hiroshima A-Bomb. Then the lights came on for them. But they knew that they were in over their heads, so they took an oath to never divulge this monstrous explosion. It was way bigger than any ship load of explosives, torpedoed by some U Boat, or other.

Another possibility would be to map the other side of the Earth, from that blast in the S. Atlantic. Someone might have tested an E.M.P. weapon, which would knock out electronics on the opposite side of the Planet. Something like listening to a "whispering dome", in a church, where the whispered sound waves come back together, on the far side of the dome.

I am confident that if this had happened today, the suspect would have been a huge exploding bolide in the atmosphere, or perhaps even a water impact, in the extreme southern ocean. Double or multiple flashes are very consistent with meteors slamming into the atmosphere, along with traveling shock waves and luminous remnants in the extremely high atmosphere.

In 1979, there was still a substantial C14 remnant in the Southern Pacific from nuclear tests done from the late 40's through to the mid 60's, due to mixing airflows over the entire planet. Every landmass on Earth had some kind of pollution from these tests, and most likely anything detected related to those earlier tests.



NOAA C14 in the atmosphere

a reply to: tadaman

No the Vela satellite was a surveillance satellite SPECIFICALLY designed to do NOTHING but watch for the double flash signature of nuclear tests at the onset of the initial test ban ratified by multiple nations.

The issue is that at the time of this incident this satellite was theoretically past the end of it's service life.

However, in the time it was up it not once had any sort of false positives of any kind, nor did any of the rest of the Vela constellation before or after this one incident!

In addition though wrt the actual Vela incident, both the Arecibo radiotelescope observatory AND most likely SOSUS detected an event consistent with a nuclear explosion at the date and time that the satellite did!

It's not really disputable that a nuclear detonation happened. This isn't one of those gee we'll never know things!

Also, if you watch the CBS evening news clip mirage man posted there was actually ANOTHER incident not terribly long after the first detected by other means. Which the US government ALSO tried to explain away as a totally freak meteor incident!

So wait, two different technical means for detection of nuclear events BOTH get somehow triggered over a short timespan over very similar parts of the ocean by freak meteorite activity that somehow BOTH TIMES exactly mimicked the effects of a nuclear event on two different types of sensors with radically different detection means?

Buy a f***ing lottery ticket if you believe that!

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: mirageman

OK so there[sic] criteria is that the second peak has to last longer and have 99% of the energy of the first?

OK. Well whatever, if there[sic] saying that they never saw something like that in nature, who am I to judge. I mean maybe they didn't for all I know. So there[sic] saying that there may have been a mushroom cloud, but they dont know if it was a mushroom cloud? That is strange indeed.

It's not strange at all. The OP clearly shows how the nuclear explosion was identified and there are even links to the scientific report. What is strange is how you thought someone said "there may have been a mushroom cloud but they don't know if was a mushroom cloud?"

Perhaps you can explain that?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: humanoidlord


If you don't understand why South Africa, Israel or any other nation might test a nuke above the ocean. Or that this occurred nowhere near to any populated territory then you need to learn a lot about recent history that is beyond the scope of this forum.

Exactly ... Prince Edward Islands actually belong to South Africa.

he Prince Edward Islands are two small islands in the sub-antarctic Indian Ocean that are part of South Africa. The islands are named Marion Island (named after Marc-Joseph Marion du Fresne) and Prince Edward Island (named after Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn). The islands in the group have been declared Special Nature Reserves under the South African Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, No. 57 of 2003, and activities on the islands are therefore restricted to research and conservation management.[1][2] Further protection was granted when the area was declared a "Marine Protected Area" in 2013.[3][4] The only human inhabitants of the islands are the staff of a meteorological and biological research station run by the South African National Antarctic Programme on Marion Island.

Link

This incident has always fascinated me, ever since I was much younger. I think I first learned of it in college back in the 80's, and quite honestly it sparked a decades long pursuit of researching this whole area in pretty considerable detail. It's a fascinating part of the World, and a lot of things have happened there which most people have no idea. I've even looked seriously into traveling there sometime (but it ain't easy, not by a long shot).

That part of the Southern Ocean (southern Indian Ocean) is really pretty much about the remotest place on Earth. (and I'm into that kind of stuff, big time). It's just impossibly far from everything. And rugged? Oh man!! There is just nothing nice about that place at all. It is rugged in the extremist of extremes. Some say Antarctica is hostile, and I would argue this place is way more hostile (in terms of environment). Sure, Antarctica is colder, but when it comes to all things nasty, this area has Antarctica beat by a country mile.

That an incident like the Vela Incident would take place there comes as no surprise at all. If someone wanted to find a place on planet Earth which was truly "away" from the prying eyes of the World, this would be it. For this reason alone I have always been convinced the Vela Incident was some type of a secret test, but a test of what and by whom is still an open question. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to ultimately learn there have been many other such secret tests in this area which have gone off completely unnoticed by the World. There were entire industries which lived, flourished and died in this region and nobody even knew they were there. It's a very mysterious place to say the least.

The one question I've always had about the Vela incident is, how did the device get there? Was it aboard a ship? An aircraft? If it was an aircraft, that must have been one hell of a scary mission! A round-trip to this area from just about anywhere would be right at the edge of about any aircraft's evelope (especially with any kind of a load), but a ship would have been pretty easy to spot and identify afterwards.

When you add in the mystery of this same region being the dumping ground for a lot of orbiting space junk (satellites, etc.) it makes the whole Vela incident even more intriguing. Was it possibly an orbiting platform which was de-orbited there and detonated? Was it maybe not a test at all, but rather some kind of an accident?

It's all just brain-candy to the max!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Right... The news report just oh so casually drops that hey another weird thing triggered a DIFFERENT one of our nuke detectors in this area less than 3 years later!

I think that probably the biggest fallacy and potentially useful false thing that the public pretty much universally believes at this point is that technology has somehow made the world a small enough place that it would be impossible for something truly big to happen without it being thoroughly documented and witnessed!

The genuinely bizarre and odd thing about this is that this is nearly exactly the opposite of the truth!

In the last half century humans have concentrated in unprecedentedly tight clusters compared to really any other point in history.

This is why when people talk about there being less and less sightings of weird phenomena and etc these days like it's surprising, I kinda laugh.

Those sightings and etc from previous eras would have been much more likely to occur due sheerly to there being more of areas with enough population density without major gaps to make something NOT being observed by someone very unlikely.

a reply to: charlyv

I am confident that if this had happened today, the suspect would have been a huge exploding bolide in the atmosphere, or perhaps even a water impact, in the extreme southern ocean. Double or multiple flashes are very consistent with meteors slamming into the atmosphere, along with traveling shock waves and luminous remnants in the extremely high atmosphere.

Why are you confident the prime suspect would have been a huge exploding bolide today?

If in 1979 we were able to utilise technology built in the 1960s to detect a nuclear explosion then don't you think we could do rather better today?

A quick internet search gives the answer. We have IMS (International Monitoring System) for the Commission for the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization.

This system was able to detect the meteor explosion over Chelyabinks

And before you ask:

The event was registered by 94 seismic stations and two infrasound stations in the CTBTO’s network. The data processing and analysis are designed to weed out natural events and focus on those events that might be explosions, including nuclear explosions.

Source : www.ctbto.org...

a reply to: roguetechie

In the last half century humans have concentrated in unprecedentedly tight clusters compared to really any other point in history. This is why when people talk about there being less and less sightings of weird phenomena and etc these days like it's surprising, I kinda laugh.

There are certainly less sightings of weird phenomena. But I think for different reasons than your good self.

200 years ago there were less than a billion people on the globe. 100 years ago there 1.5 billion. Now there are approx 7 billion. There's more people than ever before as potential witnesses. The tight clusters are due to the population explosion.

But today's technology means a lot more things are explained rapidly without mystery. The Norway Spiral would have remained a mystery for longer had it happened before the end of the Cold War because the Russians would have remained silent about it.



Similarly the Chelyabinsk Meteor in 2013 was recorded by dashboard cams and HQ CCTV as it happened. A UFO story would have built around it had it occurred in earlier decades. But we had instant coverage and it was fairly rapidly explained.



I would say our technology does make people less observant. From light pollution in cities to cell phone addiction meaning some people never look up (or even sideways). It all contributes to the dilution of weird phenomena being reported.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

The one question I've always had about the Vela incident is, how did the device get there? Was it aboard a ship? An aircraft? If it was an aircraft, that must have been one hell of a scary mission! ...Was it maybe not a test at all, but rather some kind of an accident?

You know that's actually a very good question and one I am not sure that even the released intelligence reports have ever explained.