The Myth of Hell

a reply to: Barcs


The weird thing is saying other religions are wrong... who put them in a contest anyway? Oh right because money is involved. Thats why, competition for donations... here's the thing it is a path, follow it and it will lead exactly to what it says it will... this is true of all of them.

However walking the path suited to you and not the path one claims is not walking any path at all except your own... and claiming the other path not walked as that path in name only.

People cannot walk a path with their mouths only inspire others to do so by pointing with it... if that pointing doesnt lead to actually walking it, best to save ones breath.

I have always been confused why people have a hard time knowing what right and wrong is and have to be told so often...

meditate both day and night, yet didnt give any instructions to do so means hey go find out how to meditate by those that know how... where those three wise men from the East came from? Knew how.

Putting each other at each others throats over a slight difference is not religion it is teaching people to be animals... when animals are actually more peaceful than humans in behavior it is easy to see that the world is turned upside down in it's thinking.

I love this band.

I thought we were in hell, living under the rule of Satan. I thought we were trying to get out of hell.

Hmmm. It sure seems like this place could be hell sometimes. So many Demons everywhere. I gave up trying to get out on parole years ago. There are some sanctuaries in this prison, you just need to know which ones are real and which ones are not real.

a reply to: Ursushorribilis

Well, eternity isn't really all it's cracked up to be. Also it's us really not Him. We can't stand to be in his presence in an imperfect state. Also, what is eternity outside of space/time? There's so much it's difficult to know(without omnipotence)...

As to the how forgiving is God... Who ever said that God the Father is forgiving? It's Jesus who forgives, all you have to do is accept his gift and have the Holy Spirit in your heart. The real question you should be asking is how foolish is the man who isn't willing to accept Jesus' gift and chooses instead to be damned???

Jaden

I believe hell is real. If you don't believe me, just go to church in the summer when the air conditioning isn't working good because all the old people complained it was too cold. Then imagine it even worse than that. Imagine it's winter and all the sick people go to church and want to shake your hand and get you sick too. Imagine the heat is too high so you can feel like you are in hell already. Imagine the priest giving you a sermon telling you how you are doing things wrong and going to hell if you don't stop and confess your sins. Sometimes the people sitting nearby smell bad and cough and sneeze on occasion. Sometimes they want to squeeze in beside you.

Then if you try to walk out early, the priest makes it sound like a mortal sin. Now you need to go to confession or you are committing even more sins.
Some priests are even worse. I can imagine terrorists torturing people while they are attending a church with no air conditioning as a place in hell.

If the story is true that I read that it's too late to confess your sins after you die and you go to hell if not forgiven, then that sucks. I read that there are virgins in hell. That would suck to spend a lot of time trying to do good and go to hell over a technicality.

a reply to: orionthehunter

I seem to imagine heaven being a load of christians sitting around singing 1800's church hymns

That IS the very definition of hell to me...

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
Modern day Christianity preaches of Eternal Hellfire. In my opinion this concept of Hell was created to scare and convert people of different beliefs.

Logically it just doesn't make sense.

1. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
30 years of adultery, or whatever your vice is, doesn't equate to eternal Hellfire.

2. It's anti-christian. Christianity preaches love and forgiveness. Hellfire is in direct conflict with the entire message of Christianity.


What do you think?

Just a metaphor. Hell is what we create for ourselves in this life by not leading a compassionate life.

Some live in hell and don't realise it.
Some live in hell and do.
Some believe that whispering something to another human releases them from their hell.

But you are correct. Fire and brimstone are simple concepts for simple minds, in order to ensure they do another mans bidding without question... What is considered religion today, would see people burnt at the stake millennia ago.

originally posted by: ausername
Would suck to make it to the afterlife and discover it wasn't a myth after all by being there.

About 100 billion before us would know. Nice of them to let us know by moving a plate, or opening a door, or whispering into someone's digital audio recorder.

Pretty crowded up there.

a reply to: Ursushorribilis

1. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. 30 years of adultery, or whatever your vice is, doesn't equate to eternal Hellfire.

The "punishment" is for disobeying God's teachings. This universe is a testing ground for us. Those who pass God's tests go to Heaven while those who fail them go to Hell. The point of the tests is to see if you're worthy of Heaven, not to see if humans consider the tests or their punishments to be fair or just.

2. It's anti-christian. Christianity preaches love and forgiveness. Hellfire is in direct conflict with the entire message of Christianity.

According to what? Have you actually read the New Testament? Here's a link that includes the New Testament verses that mention Hell/Sheol/Hades/Gahenna/Tartaros (HERE). How can the concept of Hell be against Christianity when it's literally in the New Testament?

ETA: If you think that Christianity (or any "Abrahamic religion for that matter) only teaches love & forgiveness, then you're completely misinformed on the subject.

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
a reply to: silo13

Before Christ there is no hell. Then our "savior" arrives and all the sudden we have an eternal Hellfire. Makes no sense at all.

It took evolution for god to exist.

Or the fear of mortality to give early humans futile lives, meaning. Which became power to control primitive minds.

like parents would sing to children;

He sees you when you're sleeping, And he knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good, So be good for goodness sake...


IIIiii wonder if some day that, you'll say that you care... if you say you love me madly, I'll gladly be there, like a puppet on a striiiing.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
a reply to: silo13

The concept of Eternal hell wasn't introduced until the new Testament. The old testament doesn't mention hell.
What kind of Savior is Jesus if he brings Hellfire with him?

it does actually... many times

But theres no descriptions of what happens or what it looks like...

Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT.... Judaism does not believe in such things

Can you quote old testament scripture that mentions hell?

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Are you saying that god dwells in heaven, and in hell?

What a charlatan he is. and not worthy of trust.

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
a reply to: silo13

The concept of Eternal hell wasn't introduced until the new Testament. The old testament doesn't mention hell.
What kind of Savior is Jesus if he brings Hellfire with him?

it does actually... many times

But theres no descriptions of what happens or what it looks like...

Eternal torture and hellfire is strictly NT.... Judaism does not believe in such things

Can you quote old testament scripture that mentions hell?

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Are you saying that god dwells in heaven, and in hell?

What a charlatan he is. and not worthy of trust.

I didn't write the psalms

Though i am saying there is no hell

a reply to: ausername

That's the mindset they're hoping for in people, "better safe than sorry". Better to believe in a lie than to risk being wrong.

Punishment? Alright there 50 Shades of Gray.

Why do people think like that? None of this, literally none of it is analogous to a relationship between a mother and a toddler. No spanking, no candy rewards for being quiet. No chores to be done before dad gets home. No bedrooms to clean, no allowances to be earned.


If you fall in the ocean you will drowned. If you fall in a mud pit you will be stuck there indefinitely. It is not a punishment its the result of falling into a higher density without a helping hand to pull you back out. If you cant see the hand lent to recover you, you don't know it exists, and it doesn't know you exist. They say Jesus is knocking.. He's no carpenter, but a fisher of men.

You ignore the warning sign and call the result a punishment? That's sick. You weren't pushed into the quicksand. You weren't tempted. You were warned. The Adamite soul is one, fractioned.

Hell is ionian; TIMELY. This is the opposite of Eternal. Hell is what happens when you're soul is still reincarnating into the higher density rather than ascending back to the lofty density from which our conciousness fell.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

More like teach them the children's version and hope it works, because people are smart enough for soul sciences.

a reply to: Ursushorribilis

I agree with your perspective. However, if God created everything we know, he also created good and evil. The bible has some conflicting statements when most of us believe in an all loving God. The question I always had, "if God wanted everyone to follow his word, why didn't he create clear cut scriptures and concrete evidence of his wishes? Why did he allow various interpretations of his sacred scriptures to occur? Why not establish one unequivocal true religion?

I also have a tough time understanding evil spirits. Why would he allow them to exist and temp his creations?

Whether everyone wants to admit it, we're all clueless on why we are here let alone the impact and reason of the universe on our lives. Sometimes I and I'm sure many others feel our life on earth is hell. We sure have a lot of violence, murders and evil preventing us from having world peace.

It's a scary thing to even think Hell could be real. After all, isn't God also supposed to be an all forgiving God?

I see it like this, the message is, the further away from God you are, the more painful your existence. Not only because you are away from God, but because of the company you will keep when away from Him. Demons are real, they were cast away from God and they hate man with a vengeance. We can be forgiven of our sins, they cannot. They wanted dominion over man and God said no. So IMO, hell is away from God. It can mean many things, but we are no match for a demon without God through Jesus, so hell fire is certainly a possibility. IMO, we can repent at any time. Revelations continuously says, as God pours out his wrath upon the earth, 'yet they still did not repent'. So it seems maybe only those who refuse to or even past their days here on earth will experience eternal damnation.

a reply to: Ursushorribilis

A few years back, I decided to delve into the King James Bible to determine what was closer to the truth:

Damnationism - the classic theory of Hell, fire, brimstone, eternal conscious torment

or

Annihilationism - eternal death for the wicked/lost

or

Universal Reconciliation - God's great "alle, alle, all in free" - the eventual salvation of all.

I checked every verse of the KJV, digging into word meanings and the Hebrew & Greek. These are my conclusions after two years of research:

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5, John 1:3, and many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation is properly a hierarchy, not a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil – therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. God warns of death, but not of Hell. See Genesis 2:17, 3:3, Romans 6:23.

8. All people die, but none of them go to ECT – only to the grave/pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the CCR.

9. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

10. ECT depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.

11. The Law given to Moses does not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments are delivered in the real world. See Exodus through Deuteronomy.

12. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.

13. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living humanity.

14. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Romans 6:7,16.

15. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

16. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but MK Baxter has Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in ECT, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on…

17. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

18. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7.

19. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

20. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

21. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – either fire or soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

22. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

24. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is a 404. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: Ursushorribilis

Im fairly certain a sort of tailored "Hell" exists.

On that note, I've personally come to believe any visions of heaven or hell come from the flash of '___' that goes through your brain when you die. If you feel at piece and lack regrets or a guilty conscious you'll have a heavenly end of life trip if not your own brain will torture you.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:13-14
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

This is where the myth of hell is born for Christianity. Now, let be clear in something the eternal condemnation is for the devil, the beast and the false prophet. They were thrown into the lake of burning sulfur.
The others were thrown into a lake of fire. The text is very clear making a distinction between "lake of burning sulfur" and "lake of fire", meaning they are two different places.

Also notice that there are 3 different kind of death: death by sea, by death itself and by Hades. Obviously there is a symbolism that need to be study further.