Complete Proof Of Freemasonry Being Satanic?

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
www.vaticanassassins.org...

What about the bad Masons, notmindcontrolled? Are you pleading with them too?

I haven't read all of this.

If you haven't read all of it, why are you posting it here for us to read? Perhaps somewhere near the end it says "Nah...we're only joking about this. Masons are good guys and all going to Heaven." Perhaps.

There are about three books I am reading now.

Add a fourth to your list. It's available on-line free, but the actual book is better and not too expensive. It's written by a couple of friends of mine and quite an interesting and informative read. It's called "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?"

www.srmason-sj.org...


But PLEASE, before responding, read it all. It's worthwhile.

I have speed read through it and it is about to take the front seat.

Re-read the part about where Albert Pike said Lucifer is God...then go to the Chapter in "Is It True..." and read what the authors tell you about that lie. Pike NEVER said that. (The DOCUMENTED truth is found here)

www.srmason-sj.org...

There are many other sites on the web and several discussions on ATS about this. It's generally labeled "The Taxil Hoax" When I see it in anti-Masonic publications it sends up a red flag. If the author is willing to print that lie, why should any of the rest of it be believable? The key is in DOCUMENTATION....your site lacks this. Again, read the section in the link I sent and you'll (hopefully) see what I mean.

Please everyone read and let's get a good friendly disscusion going here.

That's a bit hard to do when someone jumps in and pastes a link with hate-filled misinformation about an organization to which several of us belong.

Oh, and regarding all of us "good Masons" on the board (and there are several of us)...we're not mind-controlled either! Glad to hear you aren't.

Regards,


[edit on 12-2-2005 by senrak]

[edit on 12-2-2005 by senrak]

If Masonry is not about lies and Satan, how do you explain the following two lines from Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in 1872, written by 33 degree Mason Albert Pike?

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”

Page 172: “"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god... Lucifer, the Light Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the Light...”

How can you possibly deny, after reading that, that Masonry is about lying and hiding the truth. Worse yet, Pike admits plain as day, that Luciferian/light worship is that of Satan. He admits it right there!

Did this famed Mason, Albert Pike play any part in the development, founding, organization, or creation of the KKK?
All I want to know...........yea or nay?
I so far tend to lean towards the former on this, but am uninformed about any details which leaves me not at all sure.

A group of people or a society that worships a higher being is by nature defined as a religion. I.E. the worship of a higher being by any other name is still religion. Take it or leave it, but freemasonry is a religion.
"We REQUIRE our members to believe in a supreme being", thanks senrak, you just proclaimed freemasonry a practice of worshiping a higher being.
Masons refer this higher being, the grande architect of the universe or the great architect, or as senrak put it "the god and creator of all". He also contradicted himself in back to back sentences.
Do masons consider this higher being to be the god of the house of Isreal and the god of the christians?
To answer senrak, I haven't read the whole 50 pages because it is alot of information I have read before. I have read the whole thing by now and am sarching the links. There is too much info to cover in one day. I also seek explinations by masons on www.masonicinfo.com... . Most of what I read on this site answers alot of questions of the supposed satanic nature of freemasonry and for the most part debunks it. I am not interested in that aspect of freemasonry. As stated, I want masons to wake up. Most seem to be nice people. I just don't understand their "were not a religion" stance when it clearly is. Just in the link provided alone shows all the pagen deities involved in the lodge. And logowatch quoted some pages that I was going to quote about the lies that are fed to the lower levels of freemasonry. So?
"the key is documentatin, your site lacks this" Senak. What site did you go to LOL? Did you not click on any of the many links provided. What about the publications that were quoted and referenced? What about the references to the encyclopedia? What about the reference to Albert Pikes book "morals and dogma"? What about the reference to "Duncans Masonic Ritual" etc...etc.. Nice try! I would say the key is reading first, which you yourself accused me of not doing, and rightfully so.
As far as indirectly being called a "religious fundamentlist" by Levler and Senrak, I can only say that I believe the bible can be inturpreted correctly from the original languages. I used to attend a church for years that taught from the original laungues.. I will soon hopefully return to that same church.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Did this famed Mason, Albert Pike play any part in the development, founding, organization, or creation of the KKK?
All I want to know...........yea or nay?
I so far tend to lean towards the former on this, but am uninformed about any details which leaves me not at all sure.

I believe "yes"

But the KKK is now just a bunch of racist idiots now. It has came a long way from it's roots.

Originally posted by LogoWatch
If Masonry is not about lies and Satan, how do you explain the following two lines from Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in 1872, written by 33 degree Mason Albert Pike?

First and foremost (this has been said on ATS over and over and over...) Albert Pike, 33d, was NOT *the* authority on Freemasonry. Want to quote Morals and Dogma (a book written SOLEY for the use of Scottish Rite Masons in the Southern Jurisdiction, USA...a VERY SMALL portion of all Freemason) OK, let's look at page iv (that's found in the Preface of Morals & Dogma) It says:

"Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound."

HMMM. Sounds like Pike was writing his opinions and made it clear that what he was writing was not "required belief" for Freemasons.

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”

You don't think what he said there is true? OK, according to page iv, reject it. Pike wouldn't mind...really.

Page 172: “"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god... Lucifer, the Light Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the Light...”

Apparently you've been duped by an Anti-Masonic web-site or tract that hopes you'll never actually READ Morals & Dogma, which you obviously haven't, for page 172 (in EVERY EDITION OF M&D actually says:

"and nothing finer in your nature, than that you should be desirous to do
this." This is the true mark for the aim of every man and Mason who either
prizes the enjoyment of pure happiness, or sets a right value upon a high
and unsullied renown. And if the benefactors of mankind, when they rest
from their noble labors, shall be permitted to enjoy hereafter, as an
appropriate reward of their virtue, the privilege of looking down upon the
blessings with which their exertions and charities, and perhaps their toils
and sufferings have clothed the scene of their former existence, it will not,
in a state of exalted purity and wisdom, be the founders of mighty
dynasties, the conquerors of new empires, the Cæsars, Alexanders, and
Tamerlanes; nor the mere Kings and Counsellors, Presidents and
Senators, who have lived for their party chiefly, and for their country only
incidentally, often sacrificing to their own aggrandizement or that of their
faction the good of their fellow-creatures; - it will not be they who will be
gratified by contemplating the monuments of their inglorious fame; but
those will enjoy that delight and march in that triumph, who can trace the
remote effects of their enlightened benevolence in the improved condition
of their species, and exult in the reflection, that the change which they at
last, perhaps after many years, survey, with eyes that age and sorrow can
make dim no more, - of Knowledge become Power, - Virtue sharing that
Empire, - Superstition dethroned, and Tyranny exiled, is, if even only in
some small and very slight degree, yet still in some degree, the fruit,
precious if costly, and though late repaid yet long enduring, of their own
self-denial and strenuous exertion, of their own mite of charity and aid to
education wisely bestowed, and of the hardships and hazards which they
encountered here below.
Masonry requires of its Initiates and votaries nothing that is impracticable.
It does not demand that they should undertake to climb to those lofty and
sublime peaks of a theoretical and imaginary unpractical virtue, high and
cold and remote as the eternal snows that wrap the shoulders of
Chimborazo, and at least as inaccessible as they. It asks that alone to be
done which is easy to be done. It overtasks no one's strength, and asks no
one to go beyond his means and capacities. It does not expect one whose
business or profession yields him little more than the wants of himself and
his family require, and whose time is necessarily occupied by his daily
vocations, to abandon or neglect the business"

Lucifer is discussed on a few pages, particularly page 321 (which see...M&D is available on line FREE...and there are hundreds (if not thousands) of them available from used book sellers....including the Supreme Council, AASR) But the part about Satan isn't a part of that quote on 321.

What IS said (on page 102...not 172) is:

"The true name of Satan, THE KABALISTS SAY, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the NEGATION of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry. (emphasis mine)

Hmmmm...sounds like Pike wasn't a fan of Satan, doesn't it? Looks like your so-called "source" lied again....

How can you possibly deny, after reading that, that Masonry is about lying and hiding the truth.

That particular portion says it hides the truth from those not worthy (capable) of understanding it. Some minds aren't quite as open and receptive as others. Look at fundamentalists for example.

Worse yet, Pike admits plain as day, that Luciferian/light worship is that of Satan. He admits it right there!

Again, false information presented with the hope that you (and others like you) will take it at face value and not research it. Congratulations. Now perhaps you should actually READ Morals & Dogma before you try to quote from it only to find out you've been lied to by whomever you got that page number/info from.

Next!

[edit on 12-2-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Did this famed Mason, Albert Pike play any part in the development, founding, organization, or creation of the KKK?
All I want to know...........yea or nay?
I so far tend to lean towards the former on this, but am uninformed about any details which leaves me not at all sure.

I believe "yes"

But the KKK is now just a bunch of racist idiots now. It has came a long way from it's roots.

But WHY do you belive this? There's no evidence? No documentation.... Fundamentalists and hate-mongers say it's true. Do you just blindly follow those people????

Doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious why you think that...

Originally posted by senrak



But WHY do you belive this? There's no evidence? No documentation.... Fundamentalists and hate-mongers say it's true. Do you just blindly follow those people????

Doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious why you think that...

Too many scholars believe it to be true. Like I said, the KKK isn't what it used to be. I can't say it was a bad thing or a good thing at it's inception, but today...see previous post.

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
A group of people or a society that worships a higher being is by nature defined as a religion. I.E. the worship of a higher being by any other name is still religion. Take it or leave it, but freemasonry is a religion.
"We REQUIRE our members to believe in a supreme being", thanks senrak, you just proclaimed freemasonry a practice of worshiping a higher being.

No. Read my post and read what you typed. We REQUIRE (emphasis yours) our members to believe in a supreme being. Yep. Did I say "we require them to WORSHIP???????????" Believe. I believe there's an evil force (most people call "him" Satan) I don't worship him though. I believe Jeb Bush is the Governor of Florida....but I don't WORSHIP him.

So...in retrospect, I guess Freemasonry is NOT a RELIGION...since we don't require or practice any sort of WORSHIP. ...we're just required to believe in God. Plain and simple.

Masons refer this higher being, the grande architect of the universe or the great architect, or as senrak put it "the god and creator of all". He also contradicted himself in back to back sentences.

Some do. I generally refer to him as God...but that's my personal preference.

Do masons consider this higher being to be the god of the house of Isreal and the god of the christians?

Some do. Some don't. We aren't a religion so we don't adhere to religious dogma as such. Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc...can be Masons (and are)

To answer senrak, I haven't read the whole 50 pages because it is alot of information I have read before. I have read the whole thing by now and am sarching the links. There is too much info to cover in one day. I also seek explinations by masons on www.masonicinfo.com... . Most of what I read on this site answers alot of questions of the supposed satanic nature of freemasonry and for the most part debunks it.

Wow. You're the first "anti" I've seen admit that he's using a legitimate Masonic site....tip of the hat to you!

I am not interested in that aspect of freemasonry. As stated, I want masons to wake up.

Third cup of coffee. I'm wide awake. What makes you think otherwise? This anti-Masonic bunk you've posted?

Most seem to be nice people.

Most I've met are....

I just don't understand their "were not a religion" stance when it clearly is.

Again, there's no WORSHIP, hence it's not a religion. Who needs to wake up here?

Just in the link provided alone shows all the pagen deities involved in the lodge.

I assume you mean Pagan, and there are NO Pagan deities involved in the Lodge....don't care what that silly link says...

And logowatch quoted some pages that I was going to quote about the lies that are fed to the lower levels of freemasonry. So?

Please see my post regarding same and actually READ "Morals & Dogma" before presuming to use it as anti-Masonic material. It's available on-line for free and you'll see that those quotes are taken out of context and mixed up in places and even ficticious page numbers used in the hopes that people like you will accept what's said at face value without researching it.

"the key is documentatin, your site lacks this" Senak. What site did you go to LOL?

Let's see....I've been a Mason for over 15 years. I've written several Masonic articles. I'm in correspondence with other active Masons who've done the same thing....we constantly come up against Anti-Masons like yourself. You're old news.

Did you not click on any of the many links provided.

No need to. I've read that garbage before. Again, when I saw the "Taxil Hoax" the lie about Albert Pike....that doesnt' bode well for the TRUTH being in the rest of the link...now does it?

What about the publications that were quoted and referenced?

Mis-quoted and mis-construed for the most part.

What about the references to the encyclopedia? What about the reference to Albert Pikes book "morals and dogma"?

What of it? Neither Mackey nor Pike were "authorities" No one man speaks for Masonry. Anti-Masons just can't grasp this. I can write anything I like about Masonry...or the Odd Fellows or the Knights of Columbus....doen't necessarily make it true.

What about the reference to "Duncans Masonic Ritual" etc...etc..

OOOO! Let's quote an anti-Masonic (so-called) expose' by a disgruntled Freemason. Now THERE'S a reputable source.

Nice try! I would say the key is reading first, which you yourself accused me of not doing, and rightfully so.

I've read garbage like this until it's flowing out my ears. Same ol' stuff. Same ol' worn-out misquotes. Same ol' fundamentalist puke. ...it's really getting old....

As far as indirectly being called a "religious fundamentlist" by Levler and Senrak,

I didn't call you that, directly or indirectly. I'm references the sources of your "source"

I can only say that I believe the bible can be inturpreted correctly from the original languages. I used to attend a church for years that taught from the original laungues.. I will soon hopefully return to that same church.

Too bad they didn't teach you the English "laungues"

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

Originally posted by senrak



But WHY do you belive this? There's no evidence? No documentation.... Fundamentalists and hate-mongers say it's true. Do you just blindly follow those people????

Doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious why you think that...

Too many scholars believe it to be true. Like I said, the KKK isn't what it used to be. I can't say it was a bad thing or a good thing at it's inception, but today...see previous post.

WHAT scholars? How about some sources here???? I've never heard of a "scholar" (by any definition) say that....just anti-Masons and fundamentalists...

This gets tiresome at times.

Even if Pike referenced Lucifer, it is clear from study of the Bible that Lucifer was not Satan.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Albert Pike had anything to do with the Klu Klux Klan. There is no evidence of him even being a member, let alone creating it. To the educated mind, evidence actually points to the opposite.
The above has been discussed on ATS exhaustively.

Why don't some of you accusers search this site instead of making the same old statements again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again...........

Originally posted by Leveller
This gets tiresome at times.

Even if Pike referenced Lucifer, it is clear from study of the Bible that Lucifer was not Satan.

Oh Thanks a LOT Leveller for throwing THAT in. The trolls can't understand the basic fundamentals and structure of Freemasonry...now you want them to understand something so complex as THIS issue? You of all people should know that historical Biblical fact is WAY above their heads.

Originally posted by senrak

Wow. You're the first "anti" I've seen admit that he's using a legitimate Masonic site....tip of the hat to you!

Yes. I read both sides of the story. It's only fair to me.

Originally posted by LogoWatch
If Masonry is not about lies and Satan, how do you explain the following two lines from Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in 1872, written by 33 degree Mason Albert Pike?

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”

Page 172: “"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god... Lucifer, the Light Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the Light...”

How can you possibly deny, after reading that, that Masonry is about lying and hiding the truth. Worse yet, Pike admits plain as day, that Luciferian/light worship is that of Satan. He admits it right there!

You sound like a broken record dude. You just posted this same thing a few days ago and it was dealt with then. Masonic Light gave you a pretty good answer as I recall, and I pointed you to my thread where I discussed my views on the same idea (oddly, you had nothing to say about that. Hmm...).

Furthermore, your little (...) there can change the entire meaning of a passage. That is to denote when things have been left out. For example:

Originally posted by LogoWatch
... Masonry is not about lies and Satan...

OMG! LogoWatch just said that Masonry isn't about lies and Satan! How can you deny it?!?! He said it right there!

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Did this famed Mason, Albert Pike play any part in the development, founding, organization, or creation of the KKK?
All I want to know...........yea or nay?
I so far tend to lean towards the former on this, but am uninformed about any details which leaves me not at all sure.

NO. As in negative. Nay. Pike was not affiliated with the KKK, much less it's founder.


[edit on 2/12/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
When I say I base my belief in christianity on fact, I mean historical fact that prooves that bible prophecy is real.

This isn't fact, it's still belief. Anybody can claim "prophecy" after the fact.

In particular the end times prophecys found at the end of the gospels, and in revelation, the old testament prophisies that have been fullfilled, like the rebirth of Isreal in 1948, the rise of the King of the North, Jer 51 is almost certanily near, and a simple look at the past 150 years compaired to the rest of recorded human history is a good indication that we are in the end times.

Well, there is no biblical prophecy about the rebirth of Israel in 1948; the "rise of the king of the north" being "certainly near" is ambiguous at best. And a simple back back at the last 150 years shows the same old same old.

I can't see how someone is strong in their faith(christian), and adheres to the bible when it tells us not to practice with our enemy, then be a freemson at the same time. So, I assume that freemasons are ignorant about christianity.

Freemasonry is not an enemy of Christianity. Freemasonry is the enemy of fanaticism, superstition, intolerance, and oppression.

Mabey I'm wrong. Do the lodges teach about Christ?

No. Neither does Boy Scouts of America, Lions Club, or PTA. We are not a Christian organization, we are a fraternal organization. The Lodge is not a church.

Do the lodges teach their muslim members that Islam is a militant religion with the goal of forcibly converting all people to that religion(Texe Marrs)?

If you're getting your information about Islam from Texe Marrs, then you're almost certainly bound to be in error. Marrs is not a religious scholar, he's a conspiracy theorist.
Muslim people aren't trying to forcibly convert the world (that was actually what Christians attempted to do). In general, Muslims just want to be left alone, as does everyone else. The minority of Islamic fanatics do not represent Muslims as a whole, as is evidenced by popular support of democratic reform in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as our Muslim allies in Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.
The violence there among extremists actually has nothing to do with Islam at all, except for propaganda purposes; and it has everything to do with politics.

Do the lodges teach that there is only one true god, and it is the god of the sons of Isreal and christians?

Masonry teaches that there is One True God. It does not attempt to indoctrinate or brainwash people into accepting a certain religious doctrine, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, or even Deism.

I also notice that many masons deny that the NWO(globalism) is a reality. Is it shared among all masons that there is no such thing as the NWO(golbalism), or do some masons believe in the NWO and it's agenda to bring about a one world government or a globalist gov't?

The only people who believe in an "nwo" are conspiracy theorists; but probably a large group of even conspiracy theorists don't believe in it, since they're the ones who sit around, make that stuff up, then post websites on it, feeding the more gullible ones. Outside of this conspiracy group, neither Masons nor anyone else believe that sort of stuff. We recognize that there's enough problems in the real world to take care of instead of wasting our time on imaginary and paranoid ones.

Originally posted by LogoWatch
How can you possibly deny, after reading that, that Masonry is about lying and hiding the truth. Worse yet, Pike admits plain as day, that Luciferian/light worship is that of Satan. He admits it right there!

We've already been through this. Pike did NOT say Masonry is "all about lying." He said that Masonry, like ALL religions, esoteric philosophies, and everything else, must conceal the highest truths in order that they not be profaned by the unworthy. This is the EXACT SAME THING that was taught by Jesus, Socrates, Plato, Pythagoras, and all the other sages of antiquity. Simply put, no one is going to hand you the mysteries of nature and of existence on a silver platter. You have to prove yourself worthy of them. Otherwise, you wouldn't even be able to comprehend them, much less utilize them.

This isn't a law of Masonry or of Albert Pike; it's the law of Nature herself.

Secondly, Pike says nothing about any "luciferian" or satan worship. In fact, in the very same passage, he asserts his belief that satan doesn't even exist. Satan, says Pike, is simply the personification of atheism and materialism, which is the classical Platonic-Kabalistic doctrine. And I agree with him completely.

Originally posted by LogoWatch


Page 172: “"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; !

I was wondering exactly how one reverses Yaweh, is it Heway? Does anyone know?



I read the fifty page PDF file by the way and enjoyed it immencely Mindcontrolled. It got into my wood splitting time a bit but there's still plenty of time for that. Thanks for that very informative article.

Originally posted by TgSoe

Originally posted by LogoWatch


Page 172: “"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; !

I was wondering exactly how one reverses Yaweh, is it Heway? Does anyone know?

Wouldn't it be HVHY? I thought it was YHVH in Hebrew...

Originally posted by Masonic Light

The only people who believe in an "nwo" are conspiracy theorists; but probably a large group of even conspiracy theorists don't believe in it, since they're the ones who sit around, make that stuff up, then post websites on it, feeding the more gullible ones. Outside of this conspiracy group, neither Masons nor anyone else believe that sort of stuff. We recognize that there's enough problems in the real world to take care of instead of wasting our time on imaginary and paranoid ones.

Whaa!!!!!! Where were you when Bush said it over 200 times publicly. His famous "out of this can emerge a new world order" line.
www.threeworldwars.com... Not to mention all the promenent people quoted in this link. I guess they are all misquotes. No, no, they were talking about something else. Give me a brake. Globalism is real. Look at all the attempts at centralizing nations. Look at the globalist attempt right now to have Britian vote yes on an EU constitution. You call it paranoid, fine with me, I'll call the non-believers blind.


EDIT:
Oh, nevermind, I'll leave it for the NWO section of the board.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by notmindcontrolled]

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled




Whaa!!!!!! Where were you when Bush said it over 200 times publicly. His famous "out of this can emerge a new world order" line.

You know as well as I do that when he said that, he wasn't talking about the same thing that conspiracy theorists are talking about. The first President Bush's "new world order" was nothing more than an ideal of economic cooperation between the nations in the modern technological age.