Is it foolish to dismiss religion as just superstition?

originally posted by: Hyperboles
a reply to: MatterIsLight

Jesus was born of a virgin mother.

The apostles did not preach that. You can go to the Hebrew and Aramaic doctrines and that was never mentioned. It is a known scholarly fact that the Hebrew Christians - before the movement even went to Rome - did not include the virgin birth in their gospel because it was not preached, it was not believed, and it was not known to the original Christians.

However it was known from all the other pagan religions - yes the very same thing was preached in other pagan religions of the day.

You will have the most silly smirk of guilt on your face when God judges you in the next realm. You will know it and you may even think of me at that time. You will fully realize that it was all because of pride, being stubborn and being arrogant which caused this. You think that you are being faithful but what you have is not faith. It is God's plan so you can be shown that salvation is not about you having pride and equating that arrogant pride to faith. Then your smirk will turn to a slight frown, because you will realize that the people you were willing to die for were really greedy demons. Your whole philosophy will be turned around by God and you will not be happy about it because it is your fault for not believing. You choose to believe a foreign peoples over the very people that started the whole religion. Do you even believe that James the Just was the first bishop of the church? You can research and find that out for yourself, don't just take my word for it. These things are documented and understood by scholars.

In no way on earth would I ever believe what you believe. I did believe it before but I researched for years to uncover the truth and I have found the truth so there is no way for me to go back. You just stubbornly believe what other people told you without doing the tedious investigation and research for yourself from the Hebrew and Aramaic sources and doctrines.

In all honesty it is a complete insult to God to believe what a foreign people's said about Christ without looking to see what His own people said about him, and believing these deceptive foreign people over the very people who reclined and ate with our Savior. Then scholars and myself do the work to find out what happened and even though we tell you, not only do you not believe us but you do not lift a finger to even check to see if we are telling you something correct or not. Your so called blind faith has corrupted your whole salvation because you are so gullible you just believe what anyone tells you if they lived 2,000 years ago. You may not believe everyone today but if they were near ancient for some reason you believe every word they say. So if you believe the Roman ancient people why do you not believe the Jewish ancient people? It does not make sense. Christ was a Jew. Yet you don't believe his people.

a reply to: MatterIsLight

In all honesty it is a complete insult to God to believe what a foreign people's said about Christ without looking to see what His own people said about him, and believing these deceptive foreign people over the very people who reclined and ate with our Savior.

The problem is, nobody actually knows if any of them actually knew Jesus or hung out with him. You have to rely on stories passed down word of mouth, and not actually written for 20-30 years after the crucifixion, not even written by eye witnesses. You can try to check what people believed at the time, but it has no bearing on whether or not what they said is actually correct or valid or if the stories reflect reality.

I agree that the virgin birth wasn't added in until the later gospels and was likely an exaggeration and plot device recycled from pagan myths along with most other miracles, but there is no way to actually know. Scholars can give us some clues as to when they were written but the accuracy itself is a big concern, as there were many doctrines related to Jesus that were destroyed and may never be seen again.

Religion is a business that profits from spirituality.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: MatterIsLight

The problem is, nobody actually knows if any of them actually knew Jesus or hung out with him. You have to rely on stories passed down word of mouth, and not actually written for 20-30 years after the crucifixion, not even written by eye witnesses. You can try to check what people believed at the time, but it has no bearing on whether or not what they said is actually correct or valid or if the stories reflect reality.

I agree that the virgin birth wasn't added in until the later gospels and was likely an exaggeration and plot device recycled from pagan myths along with most other miracles, but there is no way to actually know. Scholars can give us some clues as to when they were written but the accuracy itself is a big concern, as there were many doctrines related to Jesus that were destroyed and may never be seen again.

I think that is why it is so easy to manipulate people in all religions, because people only really know what they experience and see, so most of any religion of based upon believing somebody or something. I personally believe researching is so important because of that. To gather an idea of the first century, there are sources such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi texts, the bible, the Jewish Christian literature, and the apocrypha scriptures which I believe are highly important.

If a person investigates the literature of the Early Church Fathers one can conclude that they were all followers of Paul and based in Rome. When you line up all of the Jewish Christian literature and compare it to those texts you can see exactly what is different. In my opinion the texts of the Jewish Christians makes sense and it righteous, and I can see where the misinformation was added into the doctrines of the early church fathers and their doctrine is more for a gathering of peoples to control them, not so much righteous guidelines to get into heaven. But when you compare the Hebrew gospel of Matthew and the Aramaic Nazarene scriptures to the Greek gospels we were handed down in the bible, you can clearly see the differences and the Aramaic text is not about those pagan myths, nor is it about controlling others. It is just about being righteous, but you can see where the Greek gospels added in their differences and based on the educated gained from researching the era and other things you can tell which one came from the Nazarenes and which one came from the Greek followers of Paul. Many of these texts are hard to find, so it is impossible for a Christian to gain this insight with the materials presented to them, they have to dig much further into the annals of history.

Now when we are faced with the apostles and their followers telling us that there was no virgin birth or miracles, we have to add that testimony to the thought that in reality magic and miracles do not happen. I can understand a healing or some other amazing mysterious event, but something like turning water into wine right in front of your eyes is not a realistic thing as for the laws of reality. So it is knowing that, and knowing that the Romans were liars from the other research, and believing that the apostles were not liars, which would endorse the faith of a person not to believe in such. It is a matter of how we believe, since we were not there. But the problem is that most Christians only see one side of the story - they will not even agree to look deeper into history to even search for the other side of the story as they have made up their mind already without leaving their mind open for any possibilities, which is not smart when the history of the powers of this world have always been dishonest.

It is such a vast complication, but when I compare my Aramaic book of Acts with the bible, my version has more information, so you can see that they took from my source. But you can also see where they changed one small thing in the verse. So I have been raised catholic, and forever that one line in that verse didn't make much sense, but when I found the Aramaic version and I saw that the line in the verse was slightly different, suddenly it finally made sense. So there are things like that when added and summed up altogether, endorses the likelihood that the writers of the gospel was dishonest.

Who did Jesus say fell like lightning? And who did Paul see?

You absolutely right and you can see if you look into the arch of Constantine, there are no Christian symbols of any kind but there are a bunch of pagen deities all over it. Check out the deception of Constantine, not only that but all high preists and bishops migrated from Egypt to Rome.

a reply to: MatterIsLight

a reply to: WarriorOfLight96

Yes, when it comes down to it, they all believe Constantine and his thugs over the very apostles who sat and reclined with the Lord Christ. They believe a murderous treacherous liar over the peaceful saints of heaven. Why are people so ignorant to do that? Why are they so gullible to just believe what some Roman emporer tells them? Because it is a historical fact the bible was not even created until these meetings 400 years after the fact - but they do not care enough to even confirm that truth, they are so evil just from so many lies jammed into their head and thinking they are truth, that their whole conscious rejects any truth as if they loathe the truth. But we know that all Truth comes from God. God and the Truth are directly in relation to each other. It is such a backwards world.

And after you have gained enough wisdom to penetrate through the lies, you begin to notice that the symbols of satanism are EVERYWHERE. I am referring to the media. The media is owned by the Rothchilds, the richest greediest family in all of history and they have controlled the world for centuries. In any typical day when I leave home I cannot be present in the world for more than 3 small minutes without seeing satanic symbolism. To be clear - within just 3 minutes of turning on the media, or going out into the world, I have to witness satanism because of the amount of symbolism that satanist are presenting to the world in this age. The symbols are all the same and they are official documented symbols directly from the church of satan - yet everyone denies it. It is so horrible and rotten to live in such a blind world where the rich and powerful flaunt satan right in plain view and everyone denies it! But they don't just deny that satanism is present and advertised everywhere - they deny everything of a spiritual nature. That is how you can have a religious person with a loaf of bread and they will not give one slice to a starving person. Just the act of giving alone, in any of it's forms, is brought out to be a bad thing - when it is one of the main teaches of Christ. I believe that people in truth are so much against God that they refuse to do good, even if they go to church.

To be spiritual is work. It takes work to do good. But people will not give 1 small second of themselves to any person, or to God. And I believe God knows this very well. Because I believe God tests us at any time in the day to see if we put ourselves in front of God, or not. And most times I believe that people will prove to God that they are only concerned with their selfish ego instead of looking out for God. So in the end it is God who will judge people, not me. Whether a person likes it or not, agrees with it or not, God has a personal relationship with all human beings, meaning that God interacts with people without them knowing it, and will put them in situations to see how they react, and God judges how they react. And I think they fail the test a lot. I see those things happening with me, and sometimes I try to pass the test by showing that my ego means nothing and when people tresspass against me, I will not take it out on the next person. Or when people treat me wrongly, I will forgive them, or when I am persecuted, I will feel the pain and still pray and send my love to God, when the devil persecutes us in the hope of making us think God is abandoning us in the hope we will reject God or lose faith. So if I still remain faithful and still act good during those times, I believe it is passing the test.

a reply to: JimNasium

Or bury the truth, whichever...

...thanks for that eloquent reply, I agree. Truth is rarer still, why I left this 'warship' months ago.

a reply to: intrptr

Not really my cup of tea in this thread, but good to see you back fella, haven't seen you post in a while, thought you got banned or something.

a reply to: spy66


"You ARE the Church™....--Jesus The Chris†


Exactly, Jesus didn't tell others to "pray to Me..."

He even said it "My Father who does art in Heaven..."

And NOT

"Pray to Me and I'll save Y'all...."

It was the humans AFTER Jesus left, that made it a bu$ine$$ using threats of damnation as currency. Where in 'The Rule Book' does it mention Hell?

And aren't those involved w/ANY CHURCH™ getting their religion™ 'used' or 'second handed'? You're getting what whomever is pushing it, their version. "Pastor Dave" who incidentally makes more $$$ the more 'Flock' there is..

Let Us fleece the flock...

I couldn't care less, just have TheChurch™ pay their taxes!! They sold the charity angle to get some rhythm on taxes. Now that they've allowed Givernment to handle the charity aspect of Church™ they can pay their business tax.

Why would AnyOne want the most important relationship One could have, Self/Creator, sullied by what someone else thinks it should be???

a reply to: intrptr


Nice to see You "out" ... Bail? or "Early Release"?

Who let the Dogma out? who, who, ...?

Stay Hydrated...

Being dismissive of anything without proper though is generally foolish in and of itself.
As to religion, it is more than a fairy tale.
Religious texts always have some basis, whether that basis is legitimate or not.

Being dismissive of anything without proper though is generally foolish in and of itself.
As to religion, it is more than a fairy tale.
Religious texts always have some basis, whether that basis is legitimate or not.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Religion is Man Made. And if people of Religious faiths actually listened to the Wise Men of their day, they would have understood that all that we see, experience and create comes from inside of us, not Religion.

originally posted by: endercreeper01
Being dismissive of anything without proper though is generally foolish in and of itself.
As to religion, it is more than a fairy tale.
Religious texts always have some basis, whether that basis is legitimate or not.

True, they have SOME basis, but so do plenty of other fairy tales and legends throughout history.

a reply to: JimNasium

One flew over the cuckoo's nest.

Look up, there I go...

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

So much depends on which religion you are talking about, and whether the view you have as an outsider (or even an insider in a very heterogenous group such as " All Christians".

I'm a Buddhist myself, in a Tibetan lineage- which is a long way from where I thought I would end up, being of very skeptical nature.

So Buddhism is pretty straightforwards-- there are warnings about holding beliefs lightly, and also the Kalamma Sutta which recommends evaluating the teachings for yourself. It took me quite some time as an interested observer until I realised that though.

It also took me some time to hit upon one of the key statements by the Buddha "I teach only suffering and the ending of suffering". None of that is apparent to the outsider who looks at it unguided. Hence the query as to how valuable outsider views on a religion can be.

Certainly there are complex questions like reincarnation, but for the purpose of Buddhist practice I find it best to act as I would if reincarnation/ rebirth was real- because that will simulate the Buddha's teachings best. you find out more about these things as you go. Rebirth is an immensely interesting topic which immediately pushes you head first in to the bigger question of the nature of the self, but I would never advocate anyone adopting an idea like that just because it comes with the package.

So I do have faith, faith born of experience, experience that says if you follow those teachings with the support of a skilled teacher, life does get better. Not faith in one or the other specific claims made by individuals of a given ethnic group though--- least of all educated Westerners


So I trust that is not superstitious.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Funny why doesn't god show up to everyone then. That's unfair. I thought god was just but if he doesnt show up for everyone he is unjust.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Murgatroid

Funny why doesn't god show up to everyone then. That's unfair. I thought god was just but if he doesnt show up for everyone he is unjust.

God is showing up.........but you don't see God...you listen to stories about you in time. You think you are in time and you think there will be a time when you will not exist....so you are full of fear (time is fear)...........when you find that you are not in time you will be full of love.

God is always present seeing what is present.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

God is always present seeing what is present.

Yeah, eating popcorn watching children die of starvation.
GOD - "Oh, so your crops have failed, you pray to me for help, and I can help but choose to watch you die?"
STARVING CHILD - "Yes, please help us God"
GOD - "Nah, sorry mate, I may be omnipotent and omniscient, but I don't actually help people anymore, I gave up miracles 2000 years ago...but carry on praying if it makes you feel better"

I'd call any god like that an evil monster.

originally posted by: Barliman
So I trust that is not superstitious.

It's definitely superstitious.
It's not JUST superstitious however.