Theresa May and Amber Rudd Suppress Child abuse documents for nation security reasons.

This article is from a year ago however I wanted to bring up the discussion of "national security" and the prevention of justice

The law is the law and I understand the need for national security , however I fail to see how these documents which provide evidence on the child abuse carried out by Sir Cyril Smith would compromise national security.

Can someone explain to me how what appears to be a logical fallacy can prevent the course of justice , as to me it seems that , if X is disclosed in these documents , then Y is bound to happen and ruin our national security so what is happening is that we prevent the course of justice so that more people are not harmed , if that is what they mean will happen.

Isnt it illegal to prevent the course of justice , why does national security get this special treatment when there is no real concrete proof that X, y or Z will happen after the fact.

Now all I can think of how they'd tie this to national security are letters or documents between the PM Margaret Thatcher who according to the article knew of Cyrils crimes and still had him knighted, these documents are correspondence between the two , maybe something to do with Argentina at the time , and also Thatcher probably asking Cryil to stop touching boys as its bad for business !

Is the only reason I can think ti would have anything to do with national security.

Any thoughts on this , especially considering that theresa may has recently increased attention and funding towards the prevention of domestic abuse in children.

What does this say about our society that we are more willing to protect the perceived security of our nation over the justice of our people.

and contrary to that article
BBC - Theresa May , pledges parliament will not block documents


Theresa May and Amber Rudd , blocked child abuse documents due to national security

this document a paper on Justice and Security in the United Kingdom a paper on looking at how national security prevents the course of justice !

Justice and Security in the UK

So the royal famly, politicians, high ranking armed forces and the like.
Do Not have the law apply to them.
the can do kiddy rape snuff/kill and what ever.
and just say nation security reasons to protect them from the law?

so that why criminals go in to that line of work!

Because Sapien82 they are all in it up to their necks.

Most of the sordid politicians and members of the BBC are involved in filth of the highest regard that if one clue comes out the whole dominoes topple...

You would not believe the names involved and you would not believe what they have been up to. Cyrill Smith is the tip of a very dirty iceberg.




As an aside I named names in a thread on here once - I received an anonymous email to a private address not linked to my account asking for me to take the thread down. I immediately contacted moderators for help/advice and was informed that they did not know how it had happened but seeing as though the post is offensive they will remove it at my request if I feel threatened.

a reply to: and14263

I find this whole thing abhorrent , why can someone please tell me have the media absolutely went to town on the recent "presidents ball" and the "scandal" which no evidence of any wrong doing was provided and the whole thing rests on one journalists word!

where as , there are numerous documents and leaks all with evidence pointing to a conspiracy within government covering up the abuse of children , and nothing is being done about it not one arrest , no one brought to justice and there is actual evidence rather than hearsay!

If this is the straw that breaks the camels back then it needs to break , because this is a perversion that destroys the world.
We have criminals in government and its not our money they are stealing its the innocence and the lives of children.
and they are applauded and given knighthoods etc!

Roll out the #in guillotines!

a reply to: and14263

I feel sorry that you have had anonymous emails to your personal email address.
I can understand how that must make you feel , constantly having to look over your shoulder only because you want truth and justice for the victims and you want decent compassionate human beings running our country!

The best way to protect yourself is make allies , safety in numbers !
and publish everything you get sent , and if they try to blackmail you , let your ego down
and let them publish any nasty sex selfies they find on you!

the worst that can happen is they hack your pc and low and behold you are then raided for bringing this to their attention and your PC now has 1 million illegal images of children on it !

a reply to: sapien82

I'm pretty sure national security is the act of protecting the nation and it's citizens-The key word is citizens.

It's sad when those who need protection are endangered by the very same people who swore to protect them.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

yes I understand but I fail to see is how this "national security " in documents from the time around the 70's can possibly lead to further death or abuse in the present or future !
and information does seem to have an expiry date especially in matters of national security because of their high level of security , things dont remain the same for very long, for example , troop movements, locations of spies, safe houses names of operatives on active duty , these all change and people can be protected , the funny thing is the citizens are not!

in any case its a logical fallacy so how can that be legal ! When laws rely on logic and reason!
the government in this sense are infallible because all they have to do is collude and mark anything a matter of national security , then they absolve themselves of any wrong doing , until its forgotten about.

A Shameful display !


Lets just say as an example ,

I was the prime minister ( I know laughable) I was at a meeting about some government military operation , and the names of the top brass were disclosed. I also at this meeting abused a waitress , and then did lines in the toilet of the cistern using tax payers money to snort it , then afterwards at same hotel during an epic sex session strangled a prostitute to death by accident because she likes it rough.

The prostitutes body is then found later and the murder investigation ensues, I then am implicated in the murder
through some evidence or witness testimony.
However the details cant be disclosed to the public in the court as it would also mean that the names of these top officials would be disclosed and they could then potentially come to harm as a result!(from our enemies )

But that right there is a logical fallacy because there is no guarantee that they would ever come to harm , this is not 100% certain

I am then free to live my life without ever facing trial because of national security.

However what is absolutely certain is that 1 women is dead another abused and illegal narcotics abused all using tax payers money
as opposed to " we cant say in case # happens!" to x, y or , z , but # the injustices already happened as ultimately "we are more important than you"

government nothing but #ing crooks

a reply to: sapien82
It IS a matter of National Security cuz they know riots would break out once people piece it together.

- countless British politicians are pedos
- advisor on online porn filters was a pedo
- high ranking masons too
- elite tax haven Jersey has Data Protection Act preventing dissemination of info that might compromise the pedos
- same Jersey has some skeletons in the closet
- British Secret Service had a POLICY of covering up "small boys":

a reply to: Ridhya

thanks for the links, I shall get reading!

Is there any way , that anyone can think of to expose this and get it dealt with legally, if this is indeed the case , we need to reform the whole government and write a new constitution protecting the people from tyrannical , child molesting, warmongering , greedy sociopaths

I just dont get it , what level of atrocity is required to take out this government for good , its clear we are governed by parasites feeding of our humanity
yet no one seems to care enough in the UK ( I know there are those who do care and they are many) , brexit is a joke , our government are idiots , there are blunder after blunder, scandal after scandal and we still havent done anything , two or ten illegal wars , bombings , hate crimes, the list of crimes we suffer at their hands grows .

Our government is not fit for purpose and we need to take it down and build a new one , why cant we do that , why cant we say , we vote you out
all of you , we are done supporting your # system
and we want a new one and we want it to be built to protect us against all this evil .

a reply to: sapien82

National security, as in if they told the truth, the establishment as we know it would implode. Their time is coming, maybe now, maybe later, but it is coming.

I know many people who are still unaware of the Jimmy Saville scandal and how deep that disgusting rabbit hole goes...these victims never get justice, it always gets swept under the rug, this time for "national security".

Man...this gets me fired up and not in a good way.

a reply to: JosephKnecht

I completely agree this crime against the people of the UK is being hidden by a clear as day conspiracy !
manifest over generations of government officials, who are most likely implicit in the crimes committed by knowingly covering it up or making it go away buying their loyalty for absolution.

Why cant court of human rights have them taken to court if the UK government arent being held accountable here then we need to make them accountable in international courts

It's pretty huge and goes on to this day - such cover-ups take place to avoid admitting people have had access to classified information and passed vetting checks to try and root them out.

It shows how flawed national security checks and apartus is, and aids other nations in recruiting/blackmailing people in the UK to give up secrets.

Same happened a few years back at BAe Salesbury where a group distributing child porn dvds on site weren't caught for eight years and were simply asked to leave rather than be jailed and have the whole thing become public knowlege.

My heart is with you guys in the UK.

Be the rambunctious assholes your country needs.

a reply to: sapien82

I'm still shell-shocked from that picture of Jimmy Saville handing Margaret Thatcher that check for that children's charity. I later found out he had keys to orphanages due to his connections.

This is so rampant and in our face yet a lot of people just don't know or just don't care. It's amazing what years of conditioning can do to a population.

This is not against my UK friends, this is a worldwide problem.

It seems that the only way to "make it to the top" is to be a monster.

a reply to: JosephKnecht

it's disgusting and shocking that we have our heads so far up our assess collectively as a species, I know there are those of us who know whats going on and are better informed because we hunt for the truth rather than swallow the "gmo" version from the media , but where is the point where we just say # this ! and we start cutting off their heads!

Id like to think we dont have to go back to the guillotine and that these people will just willingly give up and admit their crimes

What I want to get going not only is thie discussion about these crimes and how prevalent they are in society in large power structures but the philosophical discussion around the law
and "national security" and prevention of justice

How can the "threat" of action from national security breaches make it right to prevent the course of justice
it's the part that I dont understand , I know many more lives could be lost "if" X , Y , or Z is disclosed , but this seems like a logical fallacy to me , and I thought laws were based on logic and reason .

It seems to me that this one was simply made to absolve politicians and government officials of any crimes they commit and ask the "WHIP" to cover it up

a reply to: sapien82

Pretty much on the mark - the national security aspect makes things very murky.

Worse still are the secret courts in the UK. Under Closed Material Procedure, the evidence against the accused can't even be presented in full, a vague gist of the crimes can be given, reported on, are seen behind closed doors etc.....it makes no sense to me but the top QC claims it's justified as

There is "a small but indeterminate category of national-security-related claims, both for judicial review of executive decisions and for civil damages, in respect of which it is preferable that the option of a CMP – for all its inadequacies – should exist"

It covers everything from covering up torture and rendition to civil court matters, employment tribunals, benefit tribunals etc....

a reply to: bastion

thats even worse , how can that be justice in any sense of the word

when facts cant even be disclosed as evidence against the accused or in defense of the accused or the evidence for or against a witness etc .

Governments cant do this , hide their secrets from the law , its either all or nothing !
they cant make special rules , same with this diplomatic immunity bull#
its a cover all absolution for criminals committing crimes in the name of their home nation

Are there any legal practitioners on ATS that can weigh in on this and give their legaleese account of this !

a reply to: sapien82

I'm no legal practitioner but my uncle was falsely jailed for it, he was involved in building a supergun for Saddam with knowlege of the CIA and MI6 and was acting as an informant. In return they actively encouraged and taught the firm how to sell the weapons.

Customs intercepted a shipment of the cannon parts and Michael Howard and co shredded the evidence of the conspiracy. The Scott Report details the entire story in full but this is a decent precis.

In the end his boss, Gerald Bull was assasinated and my uncle 'suicided' suffocating himself in a car despite no history of mental illness and my Dad being the last person to see him and he was in a great mood with plans to sail the world and get married. Attempts to get the government to look into it have been ignored.

'
The meeting followed a Department of Trade and Industry decision to freeze export licences worth pounds 37m after an MI6 intelligence warning that they were destined for Iraqi munitions factories.

Mr Clark claimed he never saw the intelligence but was told MI6 wanted the exports allowed despite breaching the guidelines to protect their source. He assumed the source was an Iraqi who might be shot if uncovered. It never occurred to him it was British businessmen he said.

Despite the MTTA knowing the government concerns about military use, he claimed he did not mention this to avoid drawing attention to the intelligence.' I had to indulge in a fiction and invite them to participate in the fiction,' he said.

Mr Clark told them he would do 'everything in his power' to make sure there would be no interference with the contracts, according to an official minute. He spelt out the guidelines and emphasised that machine tools for peaceful 'general engineering purposes' would be satisfactory.

A British military engineering firm has been charged in the United States with secretly selling an assembly line used to make artillery fuses to Iraq. American officials said Ordtec, based in Reading, Berkshire and Rexon Technology Corporation of New Jersey, were accused of violating the US Arms Export Control Act by attempting to ship the equipment through Jordan between 1988 and 1990.

Four Ordtec executives were convicted in Britain of similar offences after ministers stopped documents indicating the Government clearly knew what they were doing before the court.

The four, who received suspended sentences or were fined, are expected to successfully appeal against the convictions after Lord Justice Scott was asked to intervene in the case.'

www.independent.co.uk...[edit by]edit on 1-2-2018 by bastion because: (no reason given)